Blu-rays are 8 years old and DVDs still cling to them like a cancerous tumor. Why?

[Joe Cain]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

That's not the way it works though. How many hi fi separates systems do you see in the electrical stores these days? It affects home cinema down the line. That has a knock on effect of disrupting my future options and possibly eliminating the option of home cinema entirely a few years down the line.

Bluray is not really thriving to be honest. It has had a few good weeks of high sales but the way things are looking 2013 looks to be the year it peaked. It has a lot of catching up to do if it's going to match last years sales yet alone bettering it. I still think/hope it will be around for the next 6-8 years and I will always collect blurays but we can't pretend this quality shrinkage isn't going to happen. I just hope the quality doesn't drop too low.

Eh. Audio has always been the more portable medium, if only because one only needs to employ *one* of the five senses to enjoy it.

More alternatives in viewing method = more consumption. With options, I watch more often and under more varied circumstances than ever before, but those options don't *replace* my living room TV and 7.1 sound setup. Even if the hard media market should fall in on itself, I just don't see a possible future in which micro-viewing becomes the majority preference for anything but the sake of convenience.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by The_Donster

Honestly pentatonic, it shouldn't matter, but for whatever reason it does to Steedeel. I can't decide if it is genuine or meant to provoke? Having more than my fair share of run ins with them I'm going with the latter. I know they think I've popped into this thread to bust their balls, but I actually did my best to stay out of it because they were posting in it. For someone who claims to be as old as they are, the are very narrow minded in their views. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm surprised that they haven't been suspended or banned with their posts. Especially when I see that another member in this thread has been suspended. Anyway, I'll leave it there and hope that they'll stop being so judgmental of others viewing habits.

Getting back on topic, I don't mind the combo's myself. My family and I take quite a few vacations. Most places don't have BD players. While we do have a portable BD player, we generally only use that for road trips and not for out of state trips. So the DVD's come in handy. I do agree with Scarface32 about the studios not treating the formats equally. While I enjoy Director/Uncut versions, I'd like to have both versions on the DVD and BD. For whatever reason, there are still quite a few movies out there that aren't complete on BD.

Why do you keep mentioning me being banned? One thing I have never done on this forum is name drop in the hope of getting another member banned. In my opinion, it could be argued that you are doing that now.

Secondly I don't 'claim' to be any age. I have not give my age. It's only a handful of people I don't get along with. Many people on this forum have helped me with advice etc.. Which I appreciate. The world is full of strong views, are you so thin skinned that you take everything I say as a personal attack? (Question not statement). Regardless, it is certainly not meant that way.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Joe Cain

Eh. Audio has always been the more portable medium, if only because one only needs to employ *one* of the five senses to enjoy it.

More alternatives in viewing method = more consumption. With options, I watch more often and under more varied circumstances than ever before, but those options don't *replace* my living room TV and 7.1 sound setup. Even if the hard media market should fall in on itself, I just don't see a possible future in which micro-viewing becomes the majority preference for anything but the sake of convenience.

The same rules can be applied to film though. Look what convenience did to the music industry?

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

That's what I was getting at. The difference is huge though. That is a fact.

no one is denying that but you need to put it in perspective. Let's put it a different way - why ride a bike when you can drive a van? On a bike you are exposed to the elements, smaller tank so you can't travel as far, hit a bad patch of road and pretty good chance you will wipe out. Why not get rid of bikes and just sell vans? Yeah there are advantages to blu-ray but if someone doesn't feel those advantages are important to them or they don't stand out enough, then why upgrade? For a lot of people, surround sound is surround sound whether it is 5.1 stereo or True HD. Yeah, blu-rays are clearer because of the resolution but even that varies between releases - not all are equal. It isn't like blu-ray have a higher standard that everyone is held to so depending on what you want to watch, blu-ray might not really be better than dvd. There is no reason why you can't have 2 different formats out there and let people choose.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by CraigThom

Except for SACD and DVD-A. They've been around for over a decade. They offer nothing but better sound, though, so they never had a serious impact on CD.

99% of the public isn't even going to know that those formats existed. I guarantee that at least 50% of the public has heard the term Blu-ray and knows that it's a higher quality 'DVD'

[Tok]

Here's a question for those that want portability:

How many use a portable DVD player at this point outside of a vehicle?

The only time we use our portable player is for in car use (didn't buy our van with an entertainment system).

For traveling anymore there are so many other options without having to mess with taking discs with you.

At this point I really believe DVD can be phased out.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

I think some of us on these forums may have tunnel-vision when it comes to film/TV series on Blu, because we collect them & because it's such a superior format. However, as has been said, many out there either don't know and/or don't care about Blu, and are 100% satisfied with DVD's. Heck, I know people who still have CRT TV's and are still happy watching those. I'm a PQ aficionado & have been for years; and, so are probably most/all of us on this board. However, we're not representative of the general public that watches/buys movies/TV shows.

That all being said, I wanted to emphasize something else attractive about the Blu format that hasn't been mentioned a lot on this thread: The Price of Blu's & how this has been going down over the years. From a personal stand-point, the main reason I got my Blu player in December 2012 was because at that point, I had started to see some Blu films for $10 (or under) @ stores. Conversely, in the first roughly 5 years after Blu came out, Blu films & TV shows were quite expensive, much more than the same material on regular DVD...

I don't see the Blu format going anywhere - maybe it's not as popular as regular DVD, but it's obviously a superior format (for the most part), and those who are aware of this & care about PQ/sound will obviously gravitate towards Blu. And, since it's backwards-compatible, it's obviously far superior to Laser Disks (and other formats) from back in the day...

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

The same rules can be applied to film though. Look what convenience did to the music industry?

Even before digital downloading had any effect on it, the problem with the music industry in the first place compared to most other entertainment mediums was that in order to get the one or few songs you want, you had to buy a whole album with several other songs that you didn't necessarily want. And while the songs are by the same artists, and maybe sometimes there's a "theme" to the album, by and large songs are a stand-alone medium... meaning that they don't have "sequels" the way movies do or "next episodes" like TV shows. So in that sense even collections of an entire series of movies or a season set of a TV show don't even compare.

Probably a more accurate comparison would be something like the only way to buy and own a particular episode of a TV series is to buy a DVD or Blu-Ray with random episodes from several other TV series included that just happen to have been created by the same person.


Also, music was an entertainment medium that was often consumed in mass amounts in a short time. Before ipods or even burned CDs, people would make mixed tapes. Or a DJ at a wedding or whatever would be the one swapping between albums to go from song to song.


So the transition to being able to buy music song by song was simply natural and what most people fundamentally wanted whether they realized it or not before the option existed. Even CD singles, while nice when they were an option and sometimes containing remixes in addition to the original version, were often at least $5 or more, and not every song had a CD single released.

While I do miss music stores to a certain extent, over priced as they were, the transition made a lot of sense for a lot of reasons.


I don't see movies having the same issue. It's not like most people want to buy only one scene from a movie and not the entire movie, itself.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

That's not the way it works though. How many hi fi separates systems do you see in the electrical stores these days? It affects home cinema down the line. That has a knock on effect of disrupting my future options and possibly eliminating the option of home cinema entirely a few years down the line.

Bluray is not really thriving to be honest. It has had a few good weeks of high sales but the way things are looking 2013 looks to be the year it peaked. It has a lot of catching up to do if it's going to match last years sales yet alone bettering it. I still think/hope it will be around for the next 6-8 years and I will always collect blurays but we can't pretend this quality shrinkage isn't going to happen. I just hope the quality doesn't drop too low.

Why would it, the whole industry is in top gear for 4K, I doubt BD will go away. But like any specialized hobbies (in reference to music for example) the few die hards (in the grand scheme, we collectors are tiny) have to contend with those issues. Ask audiophiles how hard it is to get good recordings, but they didn't stop, and looky here quality is on the upswing. But contrary to everybody out there, the audiophiles never lacked media, what some say are dead, SACD and DVD-A are so alive and kicking it's not funny, it's actually freakin expensive lol. Vinyl still existed, even if through imports. There will always be a market for the elite, but expecting to pay for it is also part of the game.

Everyone I know has at least a tablet in the house and yes, everybody uses them for stuff, but when they want to chill and enjoy, they turn the 60" on, kick back and enjoy, even BDs. And that's 1 TV as we all have at least 2, if not 1 per. Before it changes to a point of panic many things more important will have happened. Technology doesn't go backwards, just that occasionally it stumbles a bit to better take off when ready

Originally Posted by AnamorphicWidescreen

I think some of us on these forums may have tunnel-vision when it comes to film/TV series on Blu, because we collect them & because it's such a superior format. However, as has been said, many out there either don't know and/or don't care about Blu, and are 100% satisfied with DVD's. Heck, I know people who still have CRT TV's and are still happy watching those. I'm a PQ aficionado & have been for years; and, so are probably most/all of us on this board. However, we're not representative of the general public that watches/buys movies/TV shows.

That all being said, I wanted to emphasize something else attractive about the Blu format that hasn't been mentioned a lot on this thread: The Price of Blu's & how this has been going down over the years. From a personal stand-point, the main reason I got my Blu player in December 2012 was because at that point, I had started to see some Blu films for $10 (or under) @ stores. Conversely, in the first roughly 5 years after Blu came out, Blu films & TV shows were quite expensive, much more than the same material on regular DVD...

I don't see the Blu format going anywhere - maybe it's not as popular as regular DVD, but it's obviously a superior format (for the most part), and those who are aware of this & care about PQ/sound will obviously gravitate towards Blu. And, since it's backwards-compatible, it's obviously far superior to Laser Disks (and other formats) from back in the day...

We do and it's more than normal, we are obviously passionate about it but like anything if you're not an overwhelming majority, what's the point?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

This is not a fad Octagon, these people won't move on to big displays. This is their way of doing things now.

You say you know several people who never go to theaters and never watch films on television sets or laptops. They watch films on phones and on phones alone. Let's say these several people exist. I'm skeptical but let's say they do.

There is nothing even remotely approaching an entire generation of them.

These kids today do like their phones and their tablets. No doubt about it.

But these kids today also go to theaters. In fact, they go a lot.

In their living/family rooms these kids today watch televisions on screens that are larger than many projection setups used to be.

The televisions in their bedrooms are larger than living room sets used to be and their laptop screens are bigger than bedroom tvs used to be.

Screens are getting bigger and these kids today are watching them.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

That's what I was getting at. The difference is huge though. That is a fact.

No, that is not a fact. That is an opinion.

There are no objective measures of 'goodness' with which we can compare something like SD to HD or DVD to BD.

And even if one were to focus exclusively on something like resolution there's no objective basis on which to conclude that the differences between one resolution and another are 'huge'. That's a value judgment.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by AnamorphicWidescreen

I think some of us on these forums may have tunnel-vision when it comes to film/TV series on Blu, because we collect them & because it's such a superior format. However, as has been said, many out there either don't know and/or don't care about Blu, and are 100% satisfied with DVD's. Heck, I know people who still have CRT TV's and are still happy watching those.

That is very true - I have a CRT for my bedroom with an old Super Nintendo hooked up to it because it just doesn't look good on an HD tv. First thing my parents said when they hooked thier HD tv up was how poor older shows looked on it.

What it comes down to is does it do what you want. I was in university in the mid-90's and my computer programming teacher was using a computer that was a good 15 years old at that point - it still used the 5 inch floppy discs. His logic was sound - it did what he wanted so why upgrade? Same here. For a lot of the population, dvd serves their needs so there is no reason to upgrade to blu-ray despite its advantages.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

You say you know several people who never go to theaters and never watch films on television sets or laptops. They watch films on phones and on phones alone. Let's say these several people exist. I'm skeptical but let's say they do.

There is nothing even remotely approaching an entire generation of them.

These kids today do like their phones and their tablets. No doubt about it.

But these kids today also go to theaters. In fact, they go a lot.

In their living/family rooms these kids today watch televisions on screens that are larger than many projection setups used to be.

The televisions in their bedrooms are larger than living room sets used to be and their laptop screens are bigger than bedroom tvs used to be.

Screens are getting bigger and these kids today are watching them.



No, that is not a fact. That is an opinion.

There are no objective measures of 'goodness' with which we can compare something like SD to HD or DVD to BD.

And even if one were to focus exclusively on something like resolution there's no objective basis on which to conclude that the differences between one resolution and another are 'huge'. That's a value judgment.

They do exist lol. They are not huge movie fans but they like shows like The walking dead, breaking bad etc.. They are friends of my nephews. Maybe when they get their own place they buy a tv? Not convinced though.

To be fair, how do you know young people watch their TV set in the living room. That's is surely antidotal same as my example?

Finally, you could apply your last theory to anything. It's like saying a guy's mini is better than a Rolls Royce. It may be argued that it is far more economical and practical to the individual but we all know which car is of the higher quality.
Or to give you another example, it's like someone saying 'scary movie 5 is a far superior film to goodfellas or Jaws!' It might be in their opinion but that's still not true is it?

[pentatonic]

If they are gamers, trust me they will get the big screens if only for that. And to be honest I don't know many were into movies as a serious art form before there later 20's. To appreciate art it usually takes an education on it, some time and the right frame of mind. I couldn't care less about the art of cinema, I just wanted A'nold to kick *ss. The Japanese films and such came much later. Same with anything subbed. Kids don't like and neither did we.

Just seems what you are predicting is based on a "doom-feeling" as I don't see any of that around me, my daughter, friends, nieces and nephews (18-25) all own an iPhone 5 or S4, half have tablets, all have laptops and all have a TV in there room, 32" min. On average they go to the movies at least every 2 weeks, all of them, I even lose track through the movies my kid sees.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Or to give you another example, it's like someone saying 'scary movie 5 is a far superior film to goodfellas or Jaws!' It might be in their opinion but that's still not true is it?

For them it is, tastes are like that, we don't all like the same things. As a student of cinema your argument is valid, as a pure judgement call on someones behalf, it's as true as the reverse is for you, you can't dictate what people like.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

They do exist lol. They are not huge movie fans but they like shows like The walking dead, breaking bad etc.. They are friends of my nephews. Maybe when they get their own place they buy a tv? Not convinced though.

To be fair, how do you know young people watch their TV set in the living room. That's is surely antidotal same as my example?

That is fair. I think I'm on pretty safe ground believing kids watch tvs. Every kid I know and every kid I've ever know likes a good tv set but maybe I should broaden my sample a bit.

You say your nephew's friends never go to theaters or watch television sets.

What about all the other kids you know? Do they watch tvs? Do they like hooking console games up to big screens? Do they go to theaters?

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Finally, you could apply your last theory to anything. It's like saying a guy's mini is better than a Rolls Royce. It may be argued that it is far more economical and practical to the individual but we all know which car is of the higher quality.
Or to give you another example, it's like someone saying 'scary movie 5 is a far superior film to goodfellas or Jaws!' It might be in their opinion but that's still not true is it?

Whether a Rolls is better than a mini is not a question of fact. It is a value judgment.

Whether Scary Movie 5 is far superior to Goodfellas is not a question of fact. It is a value judgment.

If somebody told me Scary Movie 5 was better than Jaws I would disagree. I might even go so far as to say 'sorry, that's just wrong'. That would be somewhat dickish on my part but I'm not above that sort of thing.

What I wouldn't do is tack 'and that's a fact' at the end.

Because it's not a fact. It's an opinion.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

For them it is, tastes are like that, we don't all like the same things. As a student of cinema your argument is valid, as a pure judgement call on someones behalf, it's as true as the reverse is for you, you can't dictate what people like.

But we can't be in denial just because someone likes a crap film either. Why didn't meet the Spartans win an oscar?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

That is fair. I think I'm on pretty safe ground believing kids watch tvs. Every kid I know and every kid I've ever know likes a good tv set but maybe I should broaden my sample a bit.

You say your nephew's friends never go to theaters or watch television sets.

What about all the other kids you know? Do they watch tvs? Do they like hooking console games up to big screens? Do they go to theaters?



Whether a Rolls is better than a mini is not a question of fact. It is a value judgment.

Whether Scary Movie 5 is far superior to Goodfellas is not a question of fact. It is a value judgment.

If somebody told me Scary Movie 5 was better than Jaws I would disagree. I might even go so far as to say 'sorry, that's just wrong'. That would be somewhat dickish on my part but I'm not above that sort of thing.

What I wouldn't do is tack 'and that's a fact' at the end.

Because it's not a fact. It's an opinion.

I'm an introvert so I'm not surrounded by crowds of people but yes, I do know many families have kids that watch the living room tv. But that is now, my argument is that trend lessens dramatically as those young people get older. I think a lot are content with a ipad screen or an iphone screen. Let's face it, they stare at their screens all day anyway. They have access they simply didn't have years ago and they can quite easily plan their entire evening of viewing on said tablet or iphone.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But we can't be in denial just because someone likes a crap film either. Why didn't meet the Spartans win an oscar?

I'm sorry to say but that is a very elitist thing to say, as if you hold the truth and whoever doesn't comply is an idiot. Arts are not sciences, you can't calculate their value, so you compare to others. While the Academy might agree on one, it's still a highly personal thing. Let's say you love hip-hop or trance, I don't. Would you enjoy me telling you it's stupid trash because I say so, you'd tell me to, well you know . Nobody holds the truth for all, we each have our own.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by pentatonic

I'm sorry to say but that is a very elitist thing to say, as if you hold the truth and whoever doesn't comply is an idiot. Arts are not sciences, you can't calculate their value, so you compare to others. While the Academy might agree on one, it's still a highly personal thing. Let's say you love hip-hop or trance, I don't. Would you enjoy me telling you it's stupid trash because I say so, you'd tell me to, well you know . Nobody holds the truth for all, we each have our own.

It's not meant that way.

[pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It's not meant that way.

But it does come across like it. You have a feeling that because people around you don't share your passion they are dumb as they apparently can't appreciate our quality (OUR hobby). There is an expression that relates to audiophiles that goes something like this, non verbatim: The audiophile enjoys his passion and tries to share, the audio-snob imposes his views as the truth. Something like that.

The total percentage of people all over that have rigs like we find here are few, and I'm not talking about the 6 subwoofers crowd. Most enjoy, only a few make it a high priority enough to do the expense. many friends love coming here for movie night, they just love it, but there 3 daughters in Uni, a house to pay for,....you get it, normal people leading a normal life.

You might think that people who spend $5k for a 2 weeks trip is horribly stupid if they don't own a HT, for you that might be the logical thing, it's your life (passions do invade and inhabit our lives). For others, no point at all, young children at night so nothing stupid loud, why bother then.

You seem to lack a bigger perspective, and I'd add that I get it, passions are fire and we don't want the ice. But passions are very personal in the end and as long as you have what you need, stop worrying and enjoy Steed buddy, you still have many many years, even DVD won't go away, think BD will?