Scanners (1981)

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

Re: the "cropping" of Criterion's VIDEODROME vs. the Universal release. The Universal release mostly shows extra image on the left side of the frame, which happens to be where the optical soundtrack would be placed on release prints. Lots of 35mm productions are filmed "full aperture" which means the entire negative is exposed, even though that left side area where the optical soundtrack goes will never (or at least, should never) be seen. I'm guessing whoever did the Universal transfer- likely from an IP which would show the entire exposed image since there will not be an optical track on it- didn't realize that area should have been cropped off and treated VIDEODROME like a Super-35 movie composed for 1.85. Criterion, on the other hand, got it right and removed the dead space where the optical track would be.

Chris

This is interesting. Thanks for sharing that. This would explain the cropping then. I was always curious why the Criterion was cropped more. I remember it was cropped more on one side than the other. Wasn't there some cropping on the top and bottom also, or was that unavoidable when correcting for that dead space on the left side?

[Shannon Nutt]

"Director's intent" has now become a fancy industry term for "changing the original." I don't want to see a movie "as the director intended" - I want to see a movie as close to how it originally was during the theatrical run.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Your words.
I just find it corious when people who have stated their position on a film, and can't/won't be swayed...either way...would want to still post about it. It will only lead to back/forth discussion, that is frowned on by this site.
And let's be honest. With message board trolls in no short supply, it's very easy to have such posts come across as trollish. I'm not saying that's the case here, just saying it opens the door.

Originally Posted by rickah88

Exactly this is niche of the niche, right here.
I know it's a discussion forum, but if you're only bringing "I don't care one bit for this release" to the table, then what is actually being discussed?

Originally Posted by rickah88

Nothing. But those posts don't cause back/forth. Which is a fact.

It's like when I go into the Star Wars thread and praise Lucas for all his work. I get, roundly, set upon by several members.
Where's the justice?

Also most of those people that stated: :"OMG this is the best transfer ever!!", are usually one & done posts....yet those that don't like this release feel the need to stick around and keep reminding everyone that they don't like this release. Hmmmmm....

There's nothing wrong with back and forth discussion, as long as it's respectful. And you find it curious that people who can't be swayed still return to this thread? Uhm, YOU haven't been swayed either, so why are you still here?

Originally Posted by schlock

Personally, I love seeing back and forth as it is a discussion board. And telling someone to basically shut up or say they should stop stating their opinion is just going to keep the back and forth going longer. If you don't like back and forth, stop participating in it and it will stop.

Exactly! Nothing like a good healthy debate!

Originally Posted by The Film Expert

There should not even be any arguments over this. David Cronenberg wants it to look this way. It is completely accurate to his vision and that's the way it should be.

Guaranteed everybody would like it if they just sat down and watched it without digging around for arguments to put down the disc.

The same goes for all that digital noise reduction and edge enhancement that people go on and on about when they wouldn't even notice anything wrong if they never consulted with other armchair experts and spent hours of their time looking it up online.

I'm seeing familiar faces in here that were complaining about the colors of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly which was also approved by someone who worked on the film.

Let these people be able to present you their work in the way they want you to see it, not the way you necessarily want to see it. That's what I don't get about the people that go crazy for the original Star Wars films. The special editions are what George Lucas wants you to see, that is his true vision, not the flawed inferior theatrical cuts.

If you don't have anything nice to say about something then stop dedicating so much of your time just to complain about it.

To detract from the negativity on here I'd like to say that my views still haven't changed and I will be supporting this disc 100%. A lot of my friends and family will be getting this as gifts.

-The Film Expert

You're right, there shouldn't be any arguments. But there should be discussion driven by a good dose of critical thought. From what I have read is that people are noticing that Scanners looks different, that there have possibly been revisions. It's normal to question why that is. The response from Criterion is something along the lines of Cronenberg supervised that. But of course as warm and cuddly as many people think Criterion are, they are still a corporate entity and are just as prone to manipulated corporate bafflegab as any other company. Thus, people are using critical thought to question how accurate THAT is.

When Steven Spielberg re-released E.T. to theatres in 2002 he changed it because that's how he wanted it to look THEN. Then when it came out on blu-ray, he decided to forget all about the changed version and let the 1982 version stand on its own.

When French Connection first came out on blu-ray, it was altered by its director. There was an outcry that included its DP and Friedkin backtracked to approve the original version of the film to be released on blu.

It's entirely possible that David Cronenberg has meddled with his own film, it's just as possible that changes were made that he wasn't truly aware of a-la the TT release of NOTLD. There's nothing wrong with we, as consumers, questioning what's going on here and not just spending our money on a flawed product that may be revised later on, forcing us to spend more money on another version.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by mar3o

This is interesting. Thanks for sharing that. This would explain the cropping then. I was always curious why the Criterion was cropped more. I remember it was cropped more on one side than the other. Wasn't there some cropping on the top and bottom also, or was that unavoidable when correcting for that dead space on the left side?

This.

Chris

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

There's nothing wrong with back and forth discussion, as long as it's respectful. And you find it curious that people who can't be swayed still return to this thread? Uhm, YOU haven't been swayed either, so why are you still here?

I see you didn't quote this post of mine:

I'm "sticking around" because I have this gem preordered, and I'd like to hear any/all info I can about it. Which, I believe, is the #1 reason for these forums.

So yeah...I'm firmly in the swayed to the positive camp.

[The Film Expert]

As said before, if you don't like it then there are other alternatives that aren't Cronenberg approved, don't ruin this thread for others by posting such unwanted negative opinions when you can be happy with another edition. Be considerate.

-The Film Expert

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I see you didn't quote this post of mine:

I'm "sticking around" because I have this gem preordered, and I'd like to hear any/all info I can about it. Which, I believe, is the #1 reason for these forums.

So yeah...I'm firmly in the swayed to the positive camp.

Okay, that's great. You've made up your mind as to what "camp" you're in. So the question still stands, why are you still here? I mean, if all you're looking for is to hear any and all that you can, well the disc has been reviewed. If you trust Pro-B he's made his judgment, you know what special features there are. So there's really no reason for you to stick around then, is there?

I'm being facetious of course, because you are more than welcome, as are we all, to stick around and discuss the flaws and merits of both the film AND the disc.

Originally Posted by The Film Expert

As said before, if you don't like it then there are other alternatives that aren't Cronenberg approved, don't ruin this thread for others by posting such unwanted negative opinions when you can be happy with another edition. Be considerate.

-The Film Expert

What is there to be considerate of? Your love-in with Criterion and THIS disc? Your delicate sensibilities being affected by negative vibes? As far as I can see, the people who have criticized this disc have by and large made excellent points regarding film revisionism. Unlike the dual threads of TGTB&TU where it devolved into childish name calling and pettiness, this has by and large been pretty respectful. It has been a good discussion and it's the entire point of message boards! Don't be telling people to leave just because they disagree with you.

[Losey]

Originally Posted by The Film Expert

As said before, if you don't like it then there are other alternatives that aren't Cronenberg approved, don't ruin this thread for others by posting such unwanted negative opinions when you can be happy with another edition. Be considerate.

-The Film Expert

As screenwriter Aaron Sorkin said via his idealised American President: "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."

Besides, like somebody else pointed out, a healthy debate is always a good thing. There's a lot of passion coming from both camps and it makes for an inspiring read, IMHO. I sure learned quite a lot of interesting informations.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by The Film Expert

As said before, if you don't like it then there are other alternatives that aren't Cronenberg approved, don't ruin this thread for others by posting such unwanted negative opinions when you can be happy with another edition. Be considerate.

-The Film Expert

I wasn't aware that taking part in a healthy, informed, respectful discussion was "ruining" the thread. IMO what is hurting the thread are the ones who are upset that people actually want to take part in a discussion.

[The Film Expert]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I wasn't aware that taking part in a healthy, informed, respectful discussion was "ruining" the thread. IMO what is hurting the thread are the ones who are upset that people actually want to take part in a discussion.

It's you arguing with people for being happy with the Criterion disc that's ruining the thread. Stop harassing people. You've made it clear you don't want this disc, so why don't you comment on the threads for other editions of Scanners instead of filling this one full of hate?

Other people have said that this whole back and forth arguments are disturbing them, why can't you realize this?

-The Film Expert

[schlock]

I think the only people who are "ruining" this thread are the ones who keep telling others to leave and go elsewhere. When did all these guys become moderators?

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by The Film Expert

It's you arguing with people for being happy with the Criterion disc that's ruining the thread. Stop harassing people. You've made it clear you don't want this disc, so why don't you comment on the threads for other editions of Scanners instead of filling this one full of hate?

Other people have said that this whole back and forth arguments are disturbing them, why can't you realize this?

-The Film Expert

Are we going to have a Monty Python-esque argument about whether or not we're having an argument?

If back and forth discussion is disturbing people, then I would suggest THEY be the ones to leave. This is what message boards are designed for, good healthy discussion not, as someone crudely yet succinctly stated above, having a circle-jerk over this release.

The issue at hand is potential problems/revisions to THIS version of the film so it's appropriate to be discussing them in THIS thread.

[The Film Expert]

Some of us are just happy that this film is coming to Blu-ray in our own country and is getting the Criterion treatment. We don't want people coming in here telling us that the colors are wrong, there is DnR, EE, etc.

This isn't the only disc of the film out there, there are alternatives out there that will suit others. Go to them and post there, the people that have heard these arguments and are still wanting the disc have already heard all these arguments and don't want to be picked on and called out for liking the disc.

We just want to enjoy the film and not focus on the bad which everybody is trying to point out.

-The Film Expert

[schlock]

Originally Posted by The Film Expert

We don't want people coming in here...

Who is "we" and what makes your wants anymore important than all the other members? I suggest, as baheidstu already said, if you don't like an open discussion forum and get all frustrated if anything negative is said about something you like, maybe start a Criterion Scanners fan-club on facebook or somewhere else, and leave the mature discussion here behind.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by The Film Expert

Some of us are just happy that this film is coming to Blu-ray in our own country and is getting the Criterion treatment. We don't want people coming in here telling us that the colors are wrong, there is DnR, EE, etc.

This isn't the only disc of the film out there, there are alternatives out there that will suit others. Go to them and post there, the people that have heard these arguments and are still wanting the disc have already heard all these arguments and don't want to be picked on and called out for liking the disc.

We just want to enjoy the film and not focus on the bad which everybody is trying to point out.

-The Film Expert

Nobody's picking on you, or anyone else for that matter. If you are happy it's coming out and happy with the way it is, then I'm happy for you.

People are raising issue with the disc itself and there's nothing wrong with that. If a little heated discussion over blu-rays is going to cause you such angst then, boy oh boy, you really shouldn't be hanging around message boards.

[KowalskiVideo]

The only reason for these troll-posts is to derail the thread as much as possible and let people forget about what the whole discussion is about. Nobody joining the discussion now will find posts like these...

Originally Posted by HansEpp

So here it is folks:

Somebody asked Subkultur at their forums (http://dirtypictures.phpbb8.de/subku...-t4699-90.html) about their release of Scanners and why it looks so radically different from the criterion release.

What they basically said was: They licensed a protection master* from MGM and also had a german release-print (which they did not use, except for reference). Since both were very similar they decided to go with MGM master. I guess no other company worldwide has used this specific master before or after. They also said, that Mr. Cronenberg did not want to give an interview for the film (he said something like, everything he wanted to say about this movie he did a long ago). So they can't tell if what they got is "true" to the directors intentions. But they decided to go with the MGM master since it was very close to their release print. They also provided screenshots of the 35mm print they had!

35mm Print (untempered, raw scan):


Subkultur Blu-ray:


*PROTECTION MASTER: General term for a master copy made as a long term protection or insurance against loss, damage or fading of the original.

...if the thread is filled with countless of pages of useless 'meta-level' bullsh... and personal attacks.

[nagysaudio]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I see no evidence that the Criterion has "tons" more detail then the German disc.

Lol! Of course you don't But the screen caps say otherwise thankfully.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by The Film Expert

It's you arguing with people for being happy with the Criterion disc that's ruining the thread. Stop harassing people. You've made it clear you don't want this disc, so why don't you comment on the threads for other editions of Scanners instead of filling this one full of hate?

Other people have said that this whole back and forth arguments are disturbing them, why can't you realize this?

-The Film Expert

I have not in any way said that people cannot be happy with this release. It is not me who is ruining this thread. It's those who object to discussion when they don't agree.

Originally Posted by schlock

I think the only people who are "ruining" this thread are the ones who keep telling others to leave and go elsewhere. When did all these guys become moderators?

This.

[KowalskiVideo]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Lol! Of course you don't But the screen caps say otherwise thankfully.

Please point out the shots you are refering to and tell us were you finde "tons" of more detail.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Pecker

I never knew that.

Which disc is that on?

Steve W

It's on the Videodrome blu ray (and DVD, I assume) audio commenary. At one point, he discusses home video media, which was relatively new when Videodrome was made and is one of the themes of the movie, and he mentions how he himself was very conscious about home video and that he filmed his movies with home video framing in mind.

But the weird thing about the Videodrome cropping is that it's very unevenly cropped on the four sides of the frame compared to the Universal uncropped release:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ID=157#auswahl

If you analyze the cropping you'll see that:

It's cropped heavily on the top of the picture.
Slightly at the bottom.
Heavily on the left.
Slightly at the right.

I have no idea why it's cropped so unevenly.