Nightbreed: The Director's Cut (1990) (Limited Edition - SOLD OUT)

[bgart13]

Originally Posted by Dust Devil

Hmm, I don't think so.

You don't think the audio was finished, or, you don't think what I wrote about it being unfinished is the case?

Anyhow, I stand by my theory that the audio for the new restored scenes was never finished. Anyone who knows the history of NIGHTBREED knows that the studio stepped in early and changed things. There's no way the audio tracks would have been finished for everything that was shot.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by bgart13

You guys know that the audio is (probably) just live from the shoots, right? Not finished, no sound effects, no music, no foley, etc.?

Even if that's true, live audio would still be vastly preferable to leaving the footage mute.

The fact is, since they have the audio, they should use it in every and any way they can. To simply discount it because it's too hard for us" (which is what I'm hearing when I listen to Cliff on the podcast) is grossly inappropriate.

The fact is, this is really half a restoration. Shout! should never have taken this on if they weren't prepared to go all the way, and they certainly initiated this whole thing after Drafthouse gave up.

[Wernski]

This is what is particularly difficult to believe, given that they are indeed taking the time to do exactly that for the video portion of the film. Cliff says it is easier to do with video than audio because you can watch video, but essentially, you do the same thing with the audio, too. If you know the film (as Barker does, for instance) then you would be able to identify where audio (certainly the dialogue track) goes in much the same way as video.

No, he meant you can pick up a filmstrip and just look at it with your naked eyes to see what the shot is. Audio, you can't hold it to your ear, you have to load up each piece and play it in the machine to hear what it is.

[bgart13]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Even if that's true, live audio would still be vastly preferable to leaving the footage mute.

The fact is, since they have the audio, they should use it in every and any way they can. To simply discount it because it's too hard for us" (which is what I'm hearing when I listen to Cliff on the podcast) is grossly inappropriate.

Two things: it's not going to be silent; and, he says it's beyond their means. They're going to do what they can within their abilities. Besides a major studio taking this on and spending money and manpower on it (which would never happen, especially in today's climate), what small and independent company would be able to afford to do this? I can't think of one -- it'd have to be a company on the level of WB to do it. This is essentially post-production work on a feature film that is taking place.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by bgart13

Two things: it's not going to be silent; and, he says it's beyond their means. They're going to do what they can within their abilities. Besides a major studio taking this on and spending money and manpower on it (which would never happen, especially in today's climate), what small and independent company would be able to afford to do this? I can't think of one -- it'd have to be a company on the level of WB to do it. This is essentially post-production work on a feature film that is taking place.

In response to your two things:

Cliff has said that some portions (obviously, those not in the Cabal cut) have "no audio". And that they are even going through scripts to piece together dialogue for subtitles.

If Shout! was not in a position to be able to restore the film and audio together, then they should have sought more funds and/or brought a company aboard to assist them. Cliff was clear that they asked for the film trims, and I'm sure they all knew that restoring from film would mean finding and assembling the audio.

Indeed, Shout! never came out and asked the fans what they would have preferred. I think, after waiting twenty-five years, and knowing that we are so close to a proper restoration that may never happen again, most fans would have been willing to pitch in a bit of money for Shout! and wait another year to get the audio properly restored--I certainly would have.

[GuitarHeroForHire]

Originally Posted by The Peanut Monkey

I suppose. There's no way it's going to continue selling that fast, however, and after the initially interested have pre-ordered I'm thinking there'll be a sudden halt.

Doubtful, international buyers haven't even gotten a chance to order yet (Diabolik & Amazon haven't put the pre-order up yet).

If 1000 copies can sell overnight to mostly domestic buyers, I'm guessing the rest of these will practically disappear in a few hours when Diabolik and Amazon put their pre-orders up and international buyers can get it.

[bgart13]

Here's a thought: if Clive Barker is happy with how the project is going, then why shouldn't we?

[dsman71]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

In response to your two things:

Cliff has said that some portions (obviously, those not in the Cabal cut) have "no audio". And that they are even going through scripts to piece together dialogue for subtitles.

If Shout! was not in a position to be able to restore the film and audio together, then they should have sought more funds and/or brought a company aboard to assist them. Cliff was clear that they asked for the film trims, and I'm sure they all knew that restoring from film would mean finding and assembling the audio.

Indeed, Shout! never came out and asked the fans what they would have preferred. I think, after waiting twenty-five years, and knowing that we are so close to a proper restoration that may never happen again, most fans would have been willing to pitch in a bit of money for Shout! and wait another year to get the audio properly restored--I certainly would have.

What if they tried but couldnt get more funds ? Its not as easy you're making it sound
"Dear Warner Brothers, we need 50000.00 to fully restore the Cabal Cut of Nightbreed, can you help?"
"Dear Scream Factory, LOL you wanted this film and agreed to our deal, but we have our own titles to release and have our own budgets to follow. 50000.00 is way too much for a title that we hardly have any interest in, but thank you anyway for your interest in Warner Brothers*
I do have fun sometimes..im probably not far off the mark either

[DaveyJoe]

Originally Posted by bgart13

Here's a thought: if Clive Barker is happy with how the project is going, then why shouldn't we?

Clive Barker isn't shelling out $80 for a copy. For many fans, that is a lot of money, and as consumers, they have a right to be skeptical, and know exactly what they are getting for their money.

[McCrutchy]

Originally Posted by dsman71

What if they tried but couldnt get more funds ? Its not as easy you're making it sound
"Dear Warner Brothers, we need 50000.00 to fully restore the Cabal Cut of Nightbreed, can you help?"
"Dear Scream Factory, LOL you wanted this film and agreed to our deal, but we have our own titles to release and have our own budgets to follow. 50000.00 is way too much for a title that we hardly have any interest in, but thank you anyway for your interest in Warner Brothers*
I do have fun sometimes..im probably not far off the mark either

Warner has almost nothing to do with this, and were highly unlikely to contribute anything to the project. Having said that, there are several sources and ways that Shout! could have raised more money (especially through fans of the film), but if the project was too costly for them to complete correctly, then they should not have touched it in the first place.

I'm not saying that crowdsourcing the additional funds would have worked, but Shout! never even made the attempt, and from what Cliff revealed on the podcast, it doesn't sound like they attempted to bring anyone else on board, either. I realized that they probably maxed out their budget or what have you, but again, realistically, this new HD master is probably as good as we're ever going to get. There really is no way to understate the importance of this restoration, and the film deserves to have it's audio restored as well as its video. This is why what Shout! is doing is so infuriating.

[Bumblefeet]

Anyone on here who saw the cabal cut and remembers what the audio was like? Truth be told, as long as it isn't wobbly or damaged, it's a compromise I'll gladly take. They will have to re-use the score by Elfman in parts anyway (much like what happened to the alien 3 director's cut), might still sound decent.

What is positive news is that the audio and film elements are intact, and down the road someone might still get a new audio mix done. I am happy to have heard from that podcast the new footage looks like it was shot yesterday. It's understandable if it is too costly an undertaking to go through all the audio (don't forget this is multiple takes worth, it's not as if they just have to paste it together that easily), but at least it leaves open a chance of a great potential surround mix. Shout factory is not a movie studio, so you can't blame them for not having the means.

[Post Prod]

Until they say precisely how much audio is missing, from what exact source and what the director's ultimate intent for the scene was, this is a lot of noise over nothing.
Yes most production sound gets scrapped, and a lot, if not most dialogue is ADR, and almost all sound effects are foley work.

So the person to use as a metric for your outrage would be Clive Barker. Getting upset about missing production audio is like getting upset that they changed the color timing of the footage that was never color timed to begin with.

About every film is 70-100% ADR, there are way too many variables in production to worry about audio quality too. Production is a noisy game. Sorry if this ruins the magic of movies for you, but this is reality.

[dsman71]

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe

Clive Barker isn't shelling out $80 for a copy. For many fans, that is a lot of money, and as consumers, they have a right to be skeptical, and know exactly what they are getting for their money.

You missed the point, he's happy with the project (how it looks, sounds,etc) this has nothing to do with us skeptical consumers spending 80.00. Scream will probably update again on the project at some point

[dsman71]

Originally Posted by McCrutchy

Warner has almost nothing to do with this, and were highly unlikely to contribute anything to the project. Having said that, there are several sources and ways that Shout! could have raised more money (especially through fans of the film), but if the project was too costly for them to complete correctly, then they should not have touched it in the first place.

I'm not saying that crowdsourcing the additional funds would have worked, but Shout! never even made the attempt, and from what Cliff revealed on the podcast, it doesn't sound like they attempted to bring anyone else on board, either. I realized that they probably maxed out their budget or what have you, but again, realistically, this new HD master is probably as good as we're ever going to get. There really is no way to understate the importance of this restoration, and the film deserves to have it's audio restored as well as its video. This is why what Shout! is doing is so infuriating.

How do you know what they have or havent attempted ? Unless you work for SF and sees their every move , no one really knows what is going on behind the scenes. And speculating isnt going to do a lot of good except for back and forth debating , and it's not really worth it. Frankly, if it wasnt for Scream Factory this would never have happened. Fans wanted the Cabal cut , they got it... and this is the results of piecing it together..
Quit being a lemon....be a Rosebud !!

[demonknight]

You guys do know... If you don't want to pay $80 for it... You don't have to. You could spend the $20 on the DC alone and wait for the eventual WB release.

[bigdaddyhorse]

Other sites are saying the audio work hasn't finished yet, and the subs weren't necessarily for missing audio, but for actually just having subtitles. Crazy I know!

I hope this is true and some are just blowing things out of proportion again. Either way, I've waited too dang long to see an extended cut of this flick to cancel over some possible issue that might not even be true. If it is true, a few seconds of missing audio won't spoil it for me either. My order stands proud.

[donidarko]

It's frustrating enough when extended cuts of older films are released with missing "lost" elements. "Its a mad mad mad mad World" and "A Star is Born" for example. I can understand subtitles and stills being used for historical purposes.

However, the audio elements for Night Breed do exist. They are not "lost" forever like the film elements from classics from the 50s and 60s. An excuse like" well we don't have the money to do it right" is a horrible statement to be made from a company that wants to sell you something. So we get a half assed product at a premium price? I don't think so. If the audio for the new footage is noticeably inferior to the theatrical audio, we are in for some jarring "we're taken out of the movie" experience. And any use of subtitles as a substitute for original audio that a company doesn't want to take the time to sort through, is unacceptable.

....$80?

[donidarko]

I bet with a little effort, Scream Factory could film 500 fans of this film who would gladly volunteer their time to go through all that audio to find all the missing stems.

[bigdaddyhorse]

Originally Posted by donidarko

I bet with a little effort, Scream Factory could film 500 fans of this film who would gladly volunteer their time to go through all that audio to find all the missing stems.

Easily they could, I'm in! Just tell where to be, although I may need help getting there. I'd do it for a thank you. For a thank you on the film's extended credits, I'll bring something for everyone else working with me to smoke.

[BrandonJF]

Originally Posted by donidarko

....$80?

I know it sounds much more dramatic for people to keep saying "$80" when complaining about a product you haven't seen or heard yet, but the disc with all of these pre-release issues doesn't cost $80. It's $24 right now.

It's the theatrical cut (which one would assume has zero audio issues) and a bonus disc that would be costing you another $56.