Cannibal Holocaust - Grindhouse (US) Blu-ray

[wormsinfested]

The animal killings are disgusting garbage, but I will still pick this up because everything else is perfect.

[Rocky01542]

Screenshots are up on Capsaholic comparing the Grindhouse Blu-ray to an Ultrabit DVD. Looks like there are some major issues with the new Blu-ray.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

[nagysaudio]

Originally Posted by Rocky01542

Screenshots are up on Capsaholic comparing the Grindhouse Blu-ray to an Ultrabit DVD. Looks like there are some major issues with the new Blu-ray.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

It's still the best version, but yeah, some of that looks like garbage.

[Rocky01542]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

It's still the best version, but yeah, some of that looks like garbage.

Looking at all the screenshots, I can see the same type of compression artefacts everywhere. Is this truly representative of what the Blu-ray looks like?

I find it hard to believe that every review of this that I've come across are extremely positive when it comes to PQ if it actually looks like the screenshots on Capsaholic.

[nagysaudio]

Originally Posted by Rocky01542

Looking at all the screenshots, I can see the same type of compression artefacts everywhere. Is this truly representative of what the Blu-ray looks like?

I find it hard to believe that every review of this that I've come across are extremely positive when it comes to PQ if it actually looks like the screenshots on Capsaholic.

I see it. But it's still the best version no doubt. Having said that, I cannot believe that in 2014 some labels are still not capable of doing a basic compression job. These guys are working from high bittrate SR master tapes and 2K scans. What the heck is their problem exactly? I can re-encode a Blu-ray on my Vegas Pro and get results THOUSANDS of times better than what I see here. X.264 is super easy to use. The simple presets will give a better result. Are they intentionally using incorrect settings? Some of these people need to surely be fired.

[nagysaudio]

To further answer your question, Capsaholic is extremely reliable in taking accurate screencaps. But the movie will almost certainly look better in motion. Capsaholic purposely picks bad shots/frames (I, B, P) to make a point.

[Kentai]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

I see it. But it's still the best version no doubt. Having said that, I cannot believe that in 2014 some labels are still not capable of doing a basic compression job. These guys are working from high bittrate SR master tapes and 2K scans. What the heck is their problem exactly?

The problem is this isn't a 2K scan. The advertisement materials say it's a "new hi-definition digital restoration of the original director's cut", which is exactly the same way they marketed their DVD from 2005, copy-pasted verbatim. This is the same slightly orange and slightly dark looking HD master they created roughly a decade ago, and considering HOW GOOD EVERYTHING ELSE they've released has been by comparison, there's simply nothing Grindhouse can say to convince me otherwise.

The issue you're seeing isn't compression, it's grubby video noise from some sort of post-processing done at the time of the telecine. It's similar to the blocky-looking video noise on the Shogun Assassin BD, and it's much easier to spot on dark areas because it seems to primarily effect the luma signal (ie: grayscale) rather than the chroma signal (color). Keep in mind that this was probably mastered on older hardware, QCed on monitors that didn't properly resolve the full 1080p signal, and processed with the inevitable SD release in mind more than anything approaching Blu-ray standards. The technology to create high-end 1080p masters has evolved a lot in the last 10 years, and what we're seeing is a grim reminder that not all of those ancient HD tapes are going to be replaced with fresh materials made from 35mm elements. A real tragedy, that...

Like I said earlier: The overall quality looks a bit disappointing, but the odds of anything better coming along are dire enough that I'll take what I can get.

[TripleHBK]

I'll gladly purchase someones used copy if they're that unhappy with the look of the Blu ray... Just figured I'd throw that out there.

[Bad Sandwich]

Originally Posted by Kentai

The problem is this isn't a 2K scan

This is the suspicion I was leaning to based purely on the decidely superior look of their other titles and given the chronology - ultimately anything can happen but proficient initial encodes followed by sudden botched encode of arguably most anticipated release to date on a label that clearly takes their output seriously doesn't really compute.

[lolwut]

Yeah, those caps are not great. Better than the DVD, but not as good as the site review or high praise that we've been hearing in this thread.

[Member-222782]

For now, I'll just attribute the less-than-ideal PQ of this new Blu-ray to the fact that this was an almost no-budget Italian exploitation flick from 1979. Most of these flicks will NEVER look pristine unless someone with enough passion and money undertakes painstaking restorations. To date, the only Z-grade Italian movie that has had an impressive release was Midnight Legacy's ALIEN 2 - and it bankrupted the label

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by cine74

For now, I'll just attribute the less-than-ideal PQ of this new Blu-ray to the fact that this was an almost no-budget Italian exploitation flick from 1979. Most of these flicks will NEVER look pristine unless someone with enough passion and money undertakes painstaking restorations. To date, the only Z-grade Italian movie that has had an impressive release was Midnight Legacy's ALIEN 2 - and it bankrupted the label

But it's already been explained that this looks less than ideal due to the fact that it's from an old scan, not because it's an "almost no budget" italian flick ! If there was any chance of a perfect uncut edition from "someone with enough passion and money" to undertake "painstaking restorations" it was Grindhouse.

Is $100,000 (estimated) (taken from imdb) for a 1980 film really "no-budget" ? This was filmed in 16mm AND 35mm.

I've owned this on vhs, ultrabit dvd, italian dvd, Grindhouse dvd and now Grindhouse blu-ray. This is the best it's ever looked, BY FAR. Will there be a better version on this format ? I think that's highly unlikely. If there is one, I'll snap it up right away.

Camera Obscura have done a great job with another "no-budget Italian exploitation flick" on blu -ray, by the way : The Killer Reserved Nine Seats. Alien 2 isn't the Lone Star.

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

But it's already been explained that this looks less than ideal due to the fact that it's from an old scan, not because it's an "almost no budget" italian flick ! If there was any chance of a perfect uncut edition from "someone with enough passion and money" to undertake "painstaking restorations" it was Grindhouse.

You don't have to remind me of Grindhouse's capabilities, I'm fully aware of their excellent reputation as I have all of their Blu-rays. But that excellent reputation has hit a "snag" because of the use of an old scan for a highly-anticipated release. Having said that, I still think it looks very good despite the fact it's an old scan. However, I stand by my comments that these films were mainly all no-budget productions that were put together guerilla-style by people who were riding the coattails of other, bigger-budgeted American films. No one should expect miracles when this stuff gets put on a pedestal (i.e., hit Blu-ray).

[nagysaudio]

I know everything was worded carefully, but the way the entire thing was advertised I thought that this was definitely a new scan. The framing is different from all of the versions that I can find online. Vertical scratches and other damage is also either missing, or in different locations. So what is the actual evidence that this is an old scan, other than just an educated guess?

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by cine74

No one should expect miracles when this stuff gets put on a pedestal (i.e., hit Blu-ray).

Before, it was "off" because it was a zero budget film. Now it's off due to zero budget and an old scan

Nobody's expecting a miracle. That's just unrealistic, but a "zero budget" film doesn't explain the caps on capsoholic.

[Bad Sandwich]

Originally Posted by cine74

You don't have to remind me of Grindhouse's capabilities, I'm fully aware of their excellent reputation as I have all of their Blu-rays. But that excellent reputation has hit a "snag" because of the use of an old scan for a highly-anticipated release. Having said that, I still think it looks very good despite the fact it's an old scan. However, I stand by my comments that these films were mainly all no-budget productions that were put together guerilla-style by people who were riding the coattails of other, bigger-budgeted American films. No one should expect miracles when this stuff gets put on a pedestal (i.e., hit Blu-ray).

I would think that eight years into the format and a billion dubious titles deep we're past the point of the BD treatment being considered a "pedestal"

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by cine74

For now, I'll just attribute the less-than-ideal PQ of this new Blu-ray to the fact that this was an almost no-budget Italian exploitation flick from 1979. Most of these flicks will NEVER look pristine unless someone with enough passion and money undertakes painstaking restorations. To date, the only Z-grade Italian movie that has had an impressive release was Midnight Legacy's ALIEN 2 - and it bankrupted the label

But this reasoning doesn't really hold up. How about this screencap where the guy's coat is almost completely in shadow, with no details, but the old DVD shows a ton of details and wrinkles? Obviously those details exist and were previously seen, yet they're gone on the new blu-ray. People are too quick to blame the fact that it's low budget when an older horror film gets a sloppy transfer.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

[Mr Kite]

Originally Posted by mar3o

But this reasoning doesn't really hold up. How about this screencap where the guy's coat is almost completely in shadow, with no details, but the old DVD shows a ton of details and wrinkles? Obviously those details exist and were previously seen, yet they're gone on the new blu-ray. People are too quick to blame the fact that it's low budget when an older horror film gets a sloppy transfer.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ess=#vergleich

Looking at the DVD it looks like it's contrast boosted so you are seeing information you are not supposed to see.

A more accurate comparison would have been to use the UK Shameless Blu release. I can't understand why they chose not to?

PS
I get a bit tired of hearing this " it will look better in motion " thing regarding accurate caps, I mean think about it................

[Kriztoffer Swank]

Originally Posted by tele1962

A more accurate comparison would have been to use the UK Shameless Blu release. I can't understand why they chose not to?

Likely case of the admin not owning it or otherwise not having access to the disc. May be forthcoming.

Disappointing about the transfer considering the quality work Grindhouse has done to this point on Blu-ray. Kinda makes you worried about The Beyond and some of their other titles. Will we be seeing old masters crop up?

The Blu-ray is not being compared to the Grindhouse DVD on caps-a-holic, by the way. Their DVD was likewise more yellow than the DVD compared there.

http://10kbullets.com/news-first-loo...vs-grindhouse/

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by tele1962

Looking at the DVD it looks like it's contrast boosted so you are seeing information you are not supposed to see.

No, you can't invent detail that isn't there. That's genuine shadow detail on the DVD that's not on the Blu.