"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Rob Tomlin]

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[Mystery Clock]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

I agree.

The wife and I watched 27 Dresses last night, a Fox title. To my untrained eyes (I am still not confident in being able to 100% accurately pick out when DNR has been used), it does appear that this title had DNR applied. There is simply no detail in the skin textures. No facial pores at all.

If Fox is using DNR on a new title like this, it is a very bad sign.

Memory is a funny thing, but when I saw it in the theater with my Mrs. I don't recall specifically a tremendous amount of fine detail, etc. -- it seemed to have a more uniform, plastered look similar to the BD. If that's the case then that must be the director's intent.

Perhaps those in the know can comment on whether this got the full-on grain washing before its theatrical release? Then again, it could have been a lousy print in the theater and they scrubbed the heck out of the BD master.

In any event, I genuinely liked the movie for what it was, and even watched it again with the wifey this week, no less! A good RomCom is a hard thing to find, and I thought it was very well written and acted. Both Katherine Heigl and James Marsden seemed to really "click" with their timing (think Hepburn and Tracy), which always helps. .

Speaking of which, any chance The Desk Set, another Fox film, might be due for BD any time in the near or not-so-near future?

-John

[WickyWoo]

Rob, did you see the recent 70mm exhibition of Patton?

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Mystery Clock

Memory is a funny thing, but when I saw it in the theater with my Mrs. I don't recall specifically a tremendous amount of fine detail, etc. -- it seemed to have a more uniform, plastered look similar to the BD. If that's the case then that must be the director's intent.

I'm not very good at telling whether or not DNR has been applied to a movie or not... and if so, when it's intentionally done (creatively) or to "appease" the masses.

That being said, and I'm aware that "trailers" aren't always a good indication of the final theatrical print, BUT the 1080p trailer was very consistent with the BD's level of detail on "27 Dresses".

I'm also interested in seeing the PQ and hearing reviews of WB's release of "Fool's Gold" next week as the trailer showed a VERY slick looking presentation (with little fine detail) if I remember correctly...

~Alan

[Rob Tomlin]

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[Rob Tomlin]

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[HDJK]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

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However, I DO have my tickets for the June 20 showing of Leone's Once Upon A Time in the West at the Samuel Goldwyn theater (thanks to Penton's heads up)!!

This is part of the 40th Anniversary of it's release and Paramounts newly restored print. Can't wait!

I wished I could be there, too... I'm sure you're in for a treat

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

The wife and I watched 27 Dresses last night, a Fox title. To my untrained eyes (I am still not confident in being able to 100% accurately pick out when DNR has been used), it does appear that this title had DNR applied. There is simply no detail in the skin textures. No facial pores at all.....

As I said before, be wary of only using faces on modern day productions as evidence for excessive “DNR”. It is not an uncommon practice for actors’ faces to be defocused intentionally by the colorist in the post house, per instructions of the filmmaker…… and some actors even have such things written into their contracts prior to production.

Absent of having a vivid recollection of 27 Dresses theatrical presentation, look for motion artifacts.
This music video is a rather notorious (among those in the biz) example of that particular type of excessive processing …………………….
http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/--2151023

Lunch time!

[Rob Tomlin]

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[Paul H]

Originally Posted by Paul H

New movies don't need to be "restored" from age and abuse, necessary or not.

Who knows what it would have looked like if the powers that be gave the instructions and had to spend that extra money. At least before the current reactions.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I don’t understand what you are trying to say.
Are you implying that a studio (in this case Fox) is more predisposed to using *extreme* processing for home media editions, the more $$ that have to invest in the restoration of the original elements or whatever is usable near the front of the pipeline?

No. I was trying to put in perspective & offer some kind of possibility what could have happened in answer to your - (sarcastic humor? ) or (exaggeration?) below:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

But……….but, what about that conspiracy theory repeatedly touted ad nausea over some regions of the internet that this studio is purposely catering to the hoards of uneducated Joe6Packers that love a silky smooth video look in keeping with some popular HD television programs?

What happened ?
Did somebody (at Fox) forget to “turn the DNR knob up to eleven” on Jumper ?
For cripes sakes, Jumper has as much or more of a sales potential than does Patton.

Paul

[Kris Deering]

The only thing I really remember about 27 dresses, other than not liking it too much, was the inconsistency in image quality from scene to scene. This didn't look like an encode problem but more of a filming style. But the definition and detail wavered considerably through the Blu-ray.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Paul H

No. I was trying to put in perspective & offer some kind of possibility what could have happened in answer to your - (sarcastic humor? ) or (exaggeration?)

Sarcastic humor……….yes, guilty as charged.
Exaggeration?...........on the contrary, my inbox is filled full of links to other forums where Robert’s original review of Patton has been hyped or extrapolated into this conspiracy theory concerning 20th Century Fox Studio in regards to excessive DNR utilized to appease the “uneducated” masses, or even into the defining point for the Blu-ray format itself !

I think that this post on HTF, which I was PM’ed, kinda sums it all up…………….

“My goodness, we've gone from Patton on Blu being recommended to a call for the end of the Blu-ray format as we now know it. Yikes!

P.S. - I do understand the points being made, but the dynamic range in here is pretty impressive!”

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...8-post154.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by desmond

Mr. P.,

Just got through 'The Professionals'. Looks really good...

Congrats.

One of my favorite Westerns of all time.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Hey Penton, do you have any info on this:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...5b6eaf24c75ea8

I heard about it shortly after I posted this……………
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2793

Only 1 Billion ?
How about 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 Billion ?, who’s to quibble when your dealing in the 10 figure range.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

No, I didn't.

However, I DO have my tickets for the June 20 showing of Leone's Once Upon A Time in the West at the Samuel Goldwyn theater (thanks to Penton's heads up)!!

This is part of the 40th Anniversary of it's release and Paramounts newly restored print. Can't wait!

Hey,
P.M. me, I may just be able to attend the flick with you, if you can chauffeur me out there in your hot wheels.

That car should be a babe magnet for the area.
Feel free to repost a pic again here for bragging rights.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hey,
P.M. me, I may just be able to attend the flick with you, if you can chauffeur me out there in your hot wheels.

That car should be a babe magnet for the area.
Feel free to repost a pic again here for bragging rights.

Penton, I'd be more than happy to give you a lift to the Paul's Brain Trust screening in my rented Sebring. I've been assured by the good folks at the rental agency that it does, indeed, have wheels. That's about all I can promise...

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sarcastic humor……….yes, guilty as charged.
Exaggeration?...........on the contrary, my inbox is filled full of links to other forums where Robert’s original review of Patton has been hyped or extrapolated into this conspiracy theory concerning 20th Century Fox Studio in regards to excessive DNR utilized to appease the “uneducated” masses, or even into the defining point for the Blu-ray format itself !

I think that this post on HTF, which I was PM’ed, kinda sums it all up…………….

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...8-post154.html

I'm just waiting for a large, ridiculous thread to begin at AVS with posts by the usual suspects stating to the effect, " You see! Looks what happens with Blu-ray when there is no competition." Of course, they pleasantly forget all of those terrible Universal, edge-enhanced, DNR titles as some of the former red ants even claim the Mummy movies had reference quality and there is no need for Universal to remaster them for Blu-ray.

[eChopper]

worse- they've even got clowns at AVS stating that The Longest Day is

-stripped of "all" high frequency detail, ipso facto it must be bad and a no-sale

-softer than dvd . Its scaremongering gone mad

[Penton-Man]

I received a PM from an inquiring mind asking if this statement (regarding the origin of excessive DNR) from a *science* forum is correct –

“In the case of older films, there was no DI because the process didn't exist back then. So for films like "Patton" and the "The Longest Day", it must have been applied in the video transfer/mastering process.”

^
The first sentence is accurate because the digital intermediate process emerged years after these two war films were produced.
The second sentence is wrong on two levels.
Firstly, telecine operators have had grain reducing tools available long before DI’s came into vogue. They were crude compared to today’s methods but, they were available.

Secondly, at least in regards to Patton (I know nothing of The Longest Day), Patton received a major restoration years ago in which I’m told the film was scanned. Scanning generally results in DPX or Cineon files to play with. The colorist theoretically could have easily applied DNR at this link in the production chain, if he had chosen to do so.

[Penton-Man]

Also received a couple PM’s from inquiring minds as to “what motion artifacts do I look for” in the music video I linked folks to on the last page.

For one thing, look at the smearing in the carpet on the floor and take your beady eyes off the babes!
I realize the link provided isn’t the greatest but, the point is--- much of the same appearance would be seen if you did captures of the music video directly from the source.

This is the operator (M.E.) that did the work on that music video (as well as others)…….before he founded and now runs his own successful company.
http://aimediaserver4.com/studiodail...475&height=300

P.S.
Hey michel, you should call him sometime.
He remembers you from long ago in a land far, far away.