2014 Value Electronics Shootout.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by punisher

I asked Kevin Miller prior to the show if Panasonic had any plans to get back into the plasma line now that they dropped OLED and he said no and he believed Panasonic would be folding up as a company very soon. That would be awful.

I seriously doubt that, perhaps he was referring solely to their consumer display operations? Net income in the last fiscal year changed from a loss of $7.4B USD to a profit of $1.2B USD.

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...cy=US%20Dollar

[ZoetMB]

I was there on Saturday and as usual, a great event.

The manufacturer presentations were especially effective this year because they were from the engineers and not the sales people.

Everyone interested in 4K should watch the video of the Joe Kane presentation because he brings up lots of issues as to why he thinks pending 4K standards won't really work.

One thing I found different this year is that when looking at real world program material (with an exception detailed below), while some of the sets looked different from each other, all of the sets had really great pictures. There just wasn't that much difference and frankly, I would take the results (whatever they turned out to be - I didn't stay until the very end) with a grain of salt. I think the evaluations (including my own) were very subjective. Also, even though people walked around to look at each set, most of the time people were seated and I would bet there will be a very high correlation between each person's highest rankings and the set they happened to be sitting in front of.

The exception was that when they looped that night battle scene from the last Harry Potter film, the OLEDs were clearly superior because of their great black levels. All of the other sets looked grey in comparison. The OLEDs also had the brightest whites (at least when displaying the OPPO logo) along with the 85" Sony. But the Sony still had a problem when displaying white text on a black background in that it glowed around the text, as does my HX929 (luckily there's not a lot of real world examples of that, except in credits). Other than that, the Sony looked damned good, although skin tones were redder than the 85" Samsung, which was slightly yellow or green, but it was hard to tell which was more accurate and whether the differences were inherent to the set or whether there were calibration issues. I slightly preferred the Samsung picture, but not if it turned out that it wasn't accurate.

Watch the presentations to get the details on some of the interesting engineering tricks that each of the manufacturers are doing.

The only disappointment was a lack of diversity in manufacturers since only a few are doing anything really interesting.

From where i was sitting, I saw no difference in quality of 1080p material on the 4K sets.

One interesting note from Sony is that the 4K online media service is going to be a downloading service, not a streaming service, because of the bandwidth issues.

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by punisher

I asked Kevin Miller prior to the show if Panasonic had any plans to get back into the plasma line now that they dropped OLED and he said no and he believed Panasonic would be folding up as a company very soon. That would be awful.

I wasn't asking about Panasonic. I know they are not getting back in the plasma business (I don't believe they can, even if they wanted to). I was asking about LG since they haven't said anything about their future plans for plasma (to my knowledge).

[Wingman1977]

IMO, 4K is not worth it at this time (basically due to the lack if 4K media not to mention there are no 4K native BD titles now). It's wasn't the case when 1080p sets hit the market (BD released at basically the same time).

[punisher]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

IMO, 4K is not worth it at this time (basically due to the lack if 4K media not to mention there are no 4K native BD titles now). It's wasn't the case when 1080p sets hit the market (BD released at basically the same time).

also note that unless you plan to sit very close to a 4K tv, you won't see any difference from a 1080p set at normal viewing distances. Honestly, I don't see why anyone would want to sit up close to those big tv's at the shootout to get the benefit of the more pixels. Hell, you'd miss half the action of a football game trying to view from that close, like the front row of a movie theater.

[dobyblue]

ZoetMB and punisher, don't know if I casually chatted to either of you throughout the night but I was wearing a white F1 Michael Schumacher shirt and it was nice to inadvertently meet you if I did.

Took me 8 hours to drive there on Saturday, stupid border crossing cost me 75 minutes though. Should have been about 6.5 hours with just one quick stop for gas.

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

ZoetMB and punisher, don't know if I casually chatted to either of you throughout the night but I was wearing a white F1 Michael Schumacher shirt and it was nice to inadvertently meet you if I did.

Took me 8 hours to drive there on Saturday, stupid border crossing cost me 75 minutes though. Should have been about 6.5 hours with just one quick stop for gas.

Now I really feel bad for not going this year. I only have to take a train (or bus), transfer to a bus, then to Metro North. (gettting there is about a hour and a half, give or take).

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by punisher

also note that unless you plan to sit very close to a 4K tv, you won't see any difference from a 1080p set at normal viewing distances. Honestly, I don't see why anyone would want to sit up close to those big tv's at the shootout to get the benefit of the more pixels. Hell, you'd miss half the action of a football game trying to view from that close, like the front row of a movie theater.

Yeah, that's why I always sit in the last row at the theater (especially IMAX).

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by punisher

also note that unless you plan to sit very close to a 4K tv, you won't see any difference from a 1080p set at normal viewing distances. Honestly, I don't see why anyone would want to sit up close to those big tv's at the shootout to get the benefit of the more pixels. Hell, you'd miss half the action of a football game trying to view from that close, like the front row of a movie theater.

That's true. Unless you have a dedicated media room with a really large display or sit unusually close to it in the LR or BR, then you won't benefit from the extra resolution. That said, I have adjusted my normal viewing distance ever since I bought my 4K TV a few months ago (Sony 65X900A). The larger pixels and the slight flicker of my plasma always kept me at bay but the fine pixel structure and smoother display is inviting to me to move in closer. So now I sit about 5-6 feet away instead of around 7 feet. Not too close to get a claustrophobic effect but close enough to appreciate 4K plenty and to get an immersive experience like you would in a theater or a room with a projector.

Not surprised they would ignore 3D since manufacturers seems to be dropping it, but it's funny that 3D makes a much large visual difference over 2D, than does 4K over 1080p.

[Blu Balls]

So, what were the results of the shootout? Any sets under 3K that can compete with last year's winners?

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

ZoetMB and punisher, don't know if I casually chatted to either of you throughout the night but I was wearing a white F1 Michael Schumacher shirt and it was nice to inadvertently meet you if I did.

Took me 8 hours to drive there on Saturday, stupid border crossing cost me 75 minutes though. Should have been about 6.5 hours with just one quick stop for gas.

I've missed people there before. Maybe you were the guy who stole my seat when I got up to register! I'm going to recommend to Robert that next year, they do a quick run around the room where people can say who they are and give their online screen names so people who have communicated online can say hello to each other.

Can't believe you drove all that way. You are certainly dedicated. I was annoyed at having to drive from Queens, just 35-45 minutes away.

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

That's true. Unless you have a dedicated media room with a really large display or sit unusually close to it in the LR or BR, then you won't benefit from the extra resolution. That said, I have adjusted my normal viewing distance ever since I bought my 4K TV a few months ago (Sony 65X900A). The larger pixels and the slight flicker of my plasma always kept me at bay but the fine pixel structure and smoother display is inviting to me to move in closer. So now I sit about 5-6 feet away instead of around 7 feet. Not too close to get a claustrophobic effect but close enough to appreciate 4K plenty and to get an immersive experience like you would in a theater or a room with a projector.

Not surprised they would ignore 3D since manufacturers seems to be dropping it, but it's funny that 3D makes a much large visual difference over 2D, than does 4K over 1080p.

Only one manufacturer (Vizio) has dropped 3D. It's still strongly supported by the all other tv manufacturers. The reasons they didn't talk 3D is because they can't really show the 3D effects to the attendees (and those viewing it online) due to not being able to show and they are just focusing on main (2D) picture quality. They have barely spoken on the 3D features in past shootouts. Last year as a matter of fact, only D-Nice spoke of it (very briefly) and he only mentioned that the Panasonic 3D plasma line (at least the VT/ZT60) is not full HD in 3D and the Samsung is (F8500). 3D not being mentioned in the shootout doesn't signal that 3D support is being dropped or that it's dying. It's not.

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I've missed people there before. Maybe you were the guy who stole my seat when I got up to register! I'm going to recommend to Robert that next year, they do a quick run around the room where people can say who they are and give their online screen names so people who have communicated online can say hello to each other.

Can't believe you drove all that way. You are certainly dedicated. I was annoyed at having to drive from Queens, just 35-45 minutes away.

Negative.

[Wingman1977]

Originally Posted by Blu Balls

So, what were the results of the shootout? Any sets under 3K that can compete with last year's winners?

Nobody knows. That won't be revealed for a few weeks (at most). Robert will post when everything is tallied up.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I've missed people there before. Maybe you were the guy who stole my seat when I got up to register! I'm going to recommend to Robert that next year, they do a quick run around the room where people can say who they are and give their online screen names so people who have communicated online can say hello to each other.

Can't believe you drove all that way. You are certainly dedicated. I was annoyed at having to drive from Queens, just 35-45 minutes away.

No it wasn't me, haha, with all the unexpected delays I arrived in the door at 5:55pm just enough time to register, grab a piece of pizza as I hadn't had anything for lunch (was planning on some bbq @ Dinosaur in Syracuse but the border delay negated that plan), find a cold bottle of Stella Artois then sat right beside the bar just inside the front door. I asked the folks around me if the spot I was looking at was taken. Said "hi" to Robert, then the event began.

It's a long way to drive for sure, would have made arrangements to stay for both days had I known the events were going to differ in the key note presentations, but seeing these sets set up properly all at the same time is a pretty rare opportunity and for me it was worth the drive. I would liked to have seen Dr. Weber present again, he's got a great vibe about him.

I expect with the running time and crowd size they wouldn't have time to have a formal introduction of anyone other than the presenters but name tags last year I thought were helpful for saying "hi" as we milled about. I think looking at previous years lots of people are return attendees so there's that too which might explain why no need this year.

[David M]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

One interesting note from Sony is that the 4K online media service is going to be a downloading service, not a streaming service, because of the bandwidth issues.

Even that isn't enough, unfortunately. I had a look at the Sony 4K movie downloads and was disappointed. Better than Netflix sure, but look up close at any sort of film grain texture and it's incredibly pixelly. It's not better than Blu-ray on the whole.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Even that isn't enough, unfortunately. I had a look at the Sony 4K movie downloads and was disappointed. Better than Netflix sure, but look up close at any sort of film grain texture and it's incredibly pixelly. It's not better than Blu-ray on the whole.

It has to be physical disc IMO.
At the end of Saturday night when the Sony rep hooked up the box to the 950 Sony and showed some of the Brazil 2014 4K material it was staggeringly clear. I want that detail for 4K.

Broadcast 720p and 1080i is pretty crap IMO compared to Blu-ray, even when you get direct OTA from the broadcaster eliminating the middle man.

[David M]

Yes, physical in some way - memory stick, SD card, disc, whatever. Something that frees it from bandwidth restraints.

What a lot of people are quick to forget (since they've been with us for a while) is that optical disc is a very good way to get a LOT of data to people quickly and cheaply. I don't believe mass-replicating (mass-writing?) to flash storage is at the same sweet spot for cost.

[Mati]

For those that were there in person. What 4K LED was the best in your opinion? Thank you.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Mati

For those that were there in person. What 4K LED was the best in your opinion? Thank you.

Although it had some glaring shortcomings I thought the Sony on the very right led the Samsung beside it for on axis viewing. It was impressive in the same way that the XBR8 from a few years ago was. In fact I think for overall score I had the large sets going from right to left. The 105" was somewhere in the middle for me.

I believe I had the LG OLED in 1st, Samsung plasma in 2nd, Samsung OLED in 3rd.

To echo what was said earlier in this thread, for regular viewing content the wall was impressive all around. That was not the case last year where I'd shudder to have to live with some of the sets that were on the wall. This year during content like Skyfall you'd be hard pressed not to want any of the sets.