Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[punisher]

actually, he broke it getting out of his wheelchair..

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by roguescribner

This never would have happened in the prequels. All the doors were cgi.

[DisneyBlu]

Random, but: I've always been of the opinion that Episode I should have started out with Anakin as the same age Luke was in A New Hope. In the Episode I documentary, Lucas says he likes things that "rhyme, like poetry" -- so, to me, it would have made sense that we first meet Anakin as a young man living in the desert, wanting to get off that rock and go do greater things in the universe... the same way we first meet Luke in A New Hope.

There's an interesting parallel there between father and son -- they both start off in the exact same place, but one goes down the path of the dark side and the other goes down the complete opposite path of the light side.

I've always felt the two trilogies would "rhyme" better had that been the case. I understand Lucas' reasoning for starting with Anakin as a child, but I think it would have been better if the prequel trilogy had started with Anakin being the same age Luke was in ANH. One trilogy follows a boy as he becomes a man and descends into the dark side and becomes a great villain, one trilogy follows a boy as he becomes a man and evolves into a great hero. Could have been interesting to have them "mirror" each other.

[mdonovan]

Originally Posted by DisneyBlu

Random, but: I've always been of the opinion that Episode I should have started out with Anakin as the same age Luke was in A New Hope. In the Episode I documentary, Lucas says he likes things that "rhyme, like poetry" -- so, to me, it would have made sense that we first meet Anakin as a young man living in the desert, wanting to get off that rock and go do greater things in the universe... the same way we first meet Luke in A New Hope.

There's an interesting parallel there between father and son -- they both start off in the exact same place, but one goes down the path of the dark side and the other goes down the complete opposite path of the light side.

I've always felt the two trilogies would "rhyme" better had that been the case. I understand Lucas' reasoning for starting with Anakin as a child, but I think it would have been better if the prequel trilogy had started with Anakin being the same age Luke was in ANH. One trilogy follows a boy as he becomes a man and descends into the dark side and becomes a great villain, one trilogy follows a boy as he becomes a man and evolves into a great hero. Could have been interesting to have them "mirror" each other.

I completely agree ... Having anakin show up so young really hurt the series' believability ... Is that a word even should be used in the series? But seriously ... Believability ... Or more accurately .... A sense of realistic grounding is one thing that really helped the OT ... That concept went out the window with the OT ... And with it , in my opinion .... Any chance for success. Obviously here were many for factors contributing to this fatal flaw ... Completely CG worlds, CG Main character etc etc etc

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DisneyBlu

Random, but: I've always been of the opinion that Episode I should have started out with Anakin as the same age Luke was in A New Hope. In the Episode I documentary, Lucas says he likes things that "rhyme, like poetry" -- so, to me, it would have made sense that we first meet Anakin as a young man living in the desert, wanting to get off that rock and go do greater things in the universe... the same way we first meet Luke in A New Hope.

There's an interesting parallel there between father and son -- they both start off in the exact same place, but one goes down the path of the dark side and the other goes down the complete opposite path of the light side.

I've always felt the two trilogies would "rhyme" better had that been the case. I understand Lucas' reasoning for starting with Anakin as a child, but I think it would have been better if the prequel trilogy had started with Anakin being the same age Luke was in ANH. One trilogy follows a boy as he becomes a man and descends into the dark side and becomes a great villain, one trilogy follows a boy as he becomes a man and evolves into a great hero. Could have been interesting to have them "mirror" each other.

Absolutely, yeah, Phantom Menace mirrors Star Wars a great deal but he made a mistake making Anakin so young.

Anakin was originally intended to be in his very early teens (IIRC) which would've also worked, but Lucas took it back further because he thought that people wouldn't accept that this rough 'n' ready kid misses his mommy. I've mentioned the disconnect between Eps I and II & III before, and one of the main reasons is Anakin, we go from him being a mop-topped kid into this surly teen in the blink of an eye and it just doesn't work - whereas if they'd kept him as a tween to begin with, they could've used the same actor across all three films (which worked in Natalie Portman's case).

[mrpink134]

Originally Posted by DisneyBlu

Random, but: I've always been of the opinion that Episode I should have started out with Anakin as the same age Luke was in A New Hope. In the Episode I documentary, Lucas says he likes things that "rhyme, like poetry" -- so, to me, it would have made sense that we first meet Anakin as a young man living in the desert, wanting to get off that rock and go do greater things in the universe... the same way we first meet Luke in A New Hope.

There's an interesting parallel there between father and son -- they both start off in the exact same place, but one goes down the path of the dark side and the other goes down the complete opposite path of the light side.

I've always felt the two trilogies would "rhyme" better had that been the case. I understand Lucas' reasoning for starting with Anakin as a child, but I think it would have been better if the prequel trilogy had started with Anakin being the same age Luke was in ANH. One trilogy follows a boy as he becomes a man and descends into the dark side and becomes a great villain, one trilogy follows a boy as he becomes a man and evolves into a great hero. Could have been interesting to have them "mirror" each other.

Well for me when I decided to watch the Star Wars Saga, I skip 1-2 and go to 3-4-5-6. I pretend 1 and 2 never happen

[Kryptonic]

Lucas had to step up so many other things in Episode 1 that dealing with all of the foreshadowing with Anakin would have over stuffed the movie even more. Moving the bulk of that to Episode II gave Lucas much more room to set up the Jedi Council, Palpatine, etc. I'm very happy Lucas didn't rush right into Anakin's fall and that we got to see him as an innocent child for a short time.

[JavaJulien]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Absolutely, yeah, Phantom Menace mirrors Star Wars a great deal but he made a mistake making Anakin so young.

Anakin was originally intended to be in his very early teens (IIRC) which would've also worked, but Lucas took it back further because he thought that people wouldn't accept that this rough 'n' ready kid misses his mommy.

Honestly, I don't think a 13/14-year old getting homesick requires much suspension of disbelief.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JavaJulien

Honestly, I don't think a 13/14-year old getting homesick requires much suspension of disbelief.

Exactly - but Lucas didn't agree. Still, there's no guarantee that he'd have been any less cringeworthy with Lucas at the helm. Hell, the last time we were offered a bratty tween who was the saviour of the world and wanted to rescue his mom we got the supremely punchable John Connor in T2. Not even our lord and saviour JC could make that one work.

[Kryptonic]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Exactly - but Lucas didn't agree. Still, there's no guarantee that he'd have been any less cringeworthy with Lucas at the helm. Hell, the last time we were offered a bratty tween who was the saviour of the world and wanted to rescue his mom we got the supremely punchable John Connor in T2. Not even our lord and saviour JC could make that one work.

Fanboys crying about kids and teenagers in their franchise movies is the sweetest irony.

[Show spoiler]Not directed at you personally.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Fanboys crying about kids and teenagers in their franchise movies is the sweetest irony.

[Show spoiler]Not directed at you personally.

Tell me what is the definition of a Star Wars fanboy? I think it's these youngster PT lovers...am I wrong?

[JavaJulien]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Exactly - but Lucas didn't agree. Still, there's no guarantee that he'd have been any less cringeworthy with Lucas at the helm. Hell, the last time we were offered a bratty tween who was the saviour of the world and wanted to rescue his mom we got the supremely punchable John Connor in T2. Not even our lord and saviour JC could make that one work.

John Connor actually never bothered me. I though, in the context of the story, him acting the way he did actually makes sense considering his shaky upbringing. It's the Sam Witwicky's of the world that we can do without.

[sheldo]

I dont know what version of T2 you guys watched but John Connor is one of the least annoying kids in cinema. He keeps his shit together throughout whilst his mother and every adult around him loses their head. He's the most grown up in that movie. Sure out acts Arnie too.

Now John Connor from The Sarah Connor Chronicles is the exact opposite. Every episode I'd wish his death. Alas it never ever came. Unless you've read my fan fiction.

[Tony208]

Christian bale still the best john connor

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Kryptonic

Fanboys crying about kids and teenagers in their franchise movies is the sweetest irony.

[Show spoiler]Not directed at you personally.

Dude, teenagers are one thing but moppets are something else entirely. That said, a decently-acted moppet could've worked wonders for the initial reception of Phantom Menace, although even the Marlon Brando of child actors could only do so much with "Yippee!", so maybe the role of kiddie Anakin was doomed from the start in Lucas' hands.

And I still don't agree with him swapping around the master/apprentice roles with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, it would've made the Obi/Anakin dynamic so much more interesting had Ben lost his padawan in the heat of battle, leaving him more determined than ever to not lose Anakin, i.e. he keeps him so close he doesn't realise that he's stunting Anakin's growth as a Jedi and as a person. And had Ben been the right age in Phantom Menace, say mid thirties/early forties, he really would be an "old man" by the time the original movie rolls around.

[simonynwa]

I'm very happy Lucas didn't rush right into Anakin's fall and that we got to see him as an innocent child for a short time.

I don't think anyone is saying Lucas should rush into Anakin's fall. Episode I could have made the connection between II and III much stronger having the same actor portray Anakin as an older character with all the positive qualities Lucas was trying to show in Anakin before his fall in II and III. Im pretty certain Lucas has gone on record as saying that he skewed younger for that one scene where he leaves his mother. It is probably the only scene in Ep I where having a younger child works better (incidentally it is also the best scene with Anakin in that film IMO )

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

although even the Marlon Brando of child actors could only do so much with "Yippee!", so maybe the role of kiddie Anakin was doomed from the start

true - even the majority of most of the good actors in the prequels did a lousy acting job.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

I don't think anyone is saying Lucas should rush into Anakin's fall. Episode I could have made the connection between II and III much stronger having the same actor portray Anakin as an older character with all the positive qualities Lucas was trying to show in Anakin before his fall in II and III. Im pretty certain Lucas has gone on record as saying that he skewed younger for that one scene where he leaves his mother. It is probably the only scene in Ep I where having a younger child works better (incidentally it is also the best scene with Anakin in that film IMO )

You're right, it's the best scene with young 'Anni' by far, but it wasn't worth undermining the entire movie (and perhaps the whole PT, re: the connection between this film and the next two) for.

[JavaJulien]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, teenagers are one thing but moppets are something else entirely. That said, a decently-acted moppet could've worked wonders for the initial reception of Phantom Menace, although even the Marlon Brando of child actors could only do so much with "Yippee!", so maybe the role of kiddie Anakin was doomed from the start in Lucas' hands.

And I still don't agree with him swapping around the master/apprentice roles with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, it would've made the Obi/Anakin dynamic so much more interesting had Ben lost his padawan in the heat of battle, leaving him more determined than ever to not lose Anakin, i.e. he keeps him so close he doesn't realise that he's stunting Anakin's growth as a Jedi and as a person. And had Ben been the right age in Phantom Menace, say mid thirties/early forties, he really would be an "old man" by the time the original movie rolls around.

Story-wise, it definitely would have been better that way. Add in Anakin potentially being older himself, it would've been more believable that someone with less training in the Order could be swayed to the Dark Side.

The downside would be the lack of Ewan McGregor since he was the best thing about the Prequels.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JavaJulien

Story-wise, it definitely would have been better that way. Add in Anakin potentially being older himself, it would've been more believable that someone with less training in the Order could be swayed to the Dark Side.

The downside would be the lack of Ewan McGregor since he was the best thing about the Prequels.

That's why the early casting rumours for TPM focussed on Ken Branagh for Obi-Wan, he was in his mid-30's at the time and would've been ideal IMO. But then along came Liam Neeson and Lucas did the switcheroo, changing Qui-Gon into the older of the two (though he still died in both iterations) which meant needing a younger Kenobi, natch.