4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[blurayjunkie]

Originally Posted by Tompa

Can't wait for the DNR'd 4K releases.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha, I think we will see many sub par 4K Blu-Ray Releases just like we did 1080p because the studios are lazy and cheap.

[blurayjunkie]

I am happy to learn about the 108mbps and 128mbps transfer rates we will be getting. Someone on this thread was talking about how most people think that because a movie is released on a 50GB Blu-Ray the movie is using all 50GB of space, witch is not the cause as has be pointed out.

I am one of the people that for a long time thought that all 50GB Blu-Rays were using all the space on the disc witch is just not the case.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Teazle

I keep telling myself I won't upgrade every available title, but practically speaking I might not be able to resist.

One thing about these small file sizes though. When I saw Expendables 3, sitting in the 4th row, I could see some digital noise in a couple places, & in wide shots I thought detail could've been better. That was at 138gb for a 2-hr movie of only c. 6 million pixels (due to letterboxing). I wonder if I'll really be able to sit as close as I'd like w/ the new format.

For the audio, I seriously expect every friggin' title to have 24-bit. It'd be nice if they included DSD support (for music) too but once again they prob. won't bother.


Re: Expendables 3: Early scene in cargo aircraft, closeups, noise visible in grey background. Any worse & you'd call it macroblocking I think. My best guess: artifact caused by bit starvation in the encode. (Not the only explanation tho'.)

I think Penton has said that the JPEG2000 compression used by DCPs doesn't actually use a block structure, nor does it use temporal compression from one frame to the next but intra-frame coding which treats each frame individually. So whatever you were seeing wasn't macroblocking from the encode, but I forget what artefacts affect low-bitrate DCPs so Penton can put you right on the subject far better than I can.

Bottom line is, if they can squeeze a stellar 1080p two-hour-plus encode into something like 20GB of space, factoring that up 4x for the increase in pixels (though I've heard it's closer to 2.5x on average because with compression not every one of those 6 million extra pixels will contain unique detail) and then knocking off HEVC's average 64% bit rate reduction over AVC @ 4K (figure taken from the JCT-VC's recent performance comparisons) you're left with about 51GB, give or take. And if the 2.5x increase in 2160p file sizes over 1080p is nearer the mark, then you're looking at about 32GB for a comparable 4K encode with HEVC!

It might sound like witchcraft to some but AVC's been around for a good long while and HEVC's efficiency savings really are that good, and they're only gonna get better. So starting off with 50GB discs using BD's extant infrastructure doesn't seem like a bad idea to me, not least because it means that the new hardware and software shouldn't be exorbitantly expensive (probably will be, though). They can then branch out with higher capacity discs when the UHD side of things matures a bit more.

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think Penton has said that the JPEG2000 compression used by DCPs doesn't actually use a block structure, nor does it use temporal compression from one frame to the next but intra-frame coding which treats each frame individually. So whatever you were seeing wasn't macroblocking from the encode, but I forget what artefacts affect low-bitrate DCPs so Penton can put you right on the subject far better than I can.

Bottom line is, if they can squeeze a stellar 1080p two-hour-plus encode into something like 20GB of space, factoring that up 4x for the increase in pixels (though I've heard it's closer to 2.5x on average because with compression not every one of those 6 million extra pixels will contain unique detail) and then knocking off HEVC's average 64% bit rate reduction over AVC @ 4K (figure taken from the JCT-VC's recent performance comparisons) you're left with about 51GB, give or take. And if the 2.5x increase in 2160p file sizes over 1080p is nearer the mark, then you're looking at about 32GB for a comparable 4K encode with HEVC!

It might sound like witchcraft to some but AVC's been around for a good long while and HEVC's efficiency savings really are that good, and they're only gonna get better. So starting off with 50GB discs using BD's extant infrastructure doesn't seem like a bad idea to me, not least because it means that the new hardware and software shouldn't be exorbitantly expensive (probably will be, though). They can then branch out with higher capacity discs when the UHD side of things matures a bit more.

Great post. At this point I have to accept that HEVC efficiency must be at least roughly as advertised. To me the practical question will be how close I can sit at home while still getting a nice sharp picture without too many visible artifacts. At Expendables 3 a few wks back, 4th row was too close, but then I must've been much closer than 1.5 picture heights (of the 1.85:1 frame).

Right now it looks to me like the 4K BD upgrade will definitely be worthwhile for a good number of titles. I still boggle at a mere 50GB (esp. considering space taken up by 8 ch of hopefully 24-bit audio) but time will tell.



Also the studios will eventually be able to sucker me into upgrading more & more titles because they're very crafty that way.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

I'm not upgrading my format again, unless they find a way to immerse you into the entire movie.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...ens-yep-728426

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by emgesp

Only 100GB's?

Not to worry, 100 GB will do.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by blu swagger

Hopefully we don't have to wait till 4K Blu-ray to get Bad Boys 2.

Years ago (2006 to be precise), about 2 months prior to it be being ‘officially’ announced, I revealed the title of thee very first movie that would debut on BD50 disc (Click)….if past practices are predictable to future formats, any guesses as to what will be the first movie to appear on 4K Blu-ray ?

Or, conversely, do you think content provider(s) should *up their game*, so to speak, and offer a more prestigious title with the launch of the first 4K Blu-ray movie?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think Penton has said that the JPEG2000 compression used by DCPs doesn't actually use a block structure

As a *how-to* aside to Pro-B , this took 1 min. - key search word being ‘block’….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ck#post9592930

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Teazle

Also the studios will eventually be able to sucker me into upgrading more & more titles because they're very crafty that way.

We've got an applicable emoticon for that....

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Years ago (2006 to be precise), about 2 months prior to it be being ‘officially’ announced, I revealed the title of thee very first movie that would debut on BD50 disc (Click)….if past practices are predictable to future formats, any guesses as to what will be the first movie to appear on 4K Blu-ray ?

Or, conversely, do you think content provider(s) should *up their game*, so to speak, and offer a more prestigious title with the launch of the first 4K Blu-ray movie?

Nope, we'll probably get another shitty Adam Sandler movie and Smurfs 2 from Sony.

Be nice if Lionsgate started with Catching Fire in 4K, those IMAX sequences will look incredible.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Years ago (2006 to be precise), about 2 months prior to it be being ‘officially’ announced, I revealed the title of thee very first movie that would debut on BD50 disc (Click)….if past practices are predictable to future formats, any guesses as to what will be the first movie to appear on 4K Blu-ray ?

Or, conversely, do you think content provider(s) should *up their game*, so to speak, and offer a more prestigious title with the launch of the first 4K Blu-ray movie?

I would love to see Terminator 5 as one of the first 4k discs.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nope, we'll probably get another shitty Adam Sandler movie and Smurfs 2 from Sony.

Be nice if Lionsgate started with Catching Fire in 4K, those IMAX sequences will look incredible.

Despite loving almost all genres (even a small handful of chick flicks lol) I have never been able to watch anything starring Adam Sandler.

[Funcha]

I have no doubt Sony will be right out the gate with The Fifth Element, and the Spider-Man, and Men in Black films. With Disney now in charge of Lucasfilm, maybe a true 4K Star Wars trilogy will be even closer than we think? Of course, the Twilight Time Fright Night in 4K will probably be straight up $100! Ha.

[David M]

Originally Posted by blurayjunkie

Ha ha ha ha ha ha, I think we will see many sub par 4K Blu-Ray Releases just like we did 1080p because the studios are lazy and cheap.

Actually, I think that will be less of an issue now. Going to 2160p resolution will necessitate studios doing a lot of new transfers. Pulling re-heated 1990s telecine output (made using some clapped out tube telecine with NR baked in) off the shelf won't be an option.

Of course there have been transfers that have been done recently, either on bad equipment or with bad mastering practices (NR), but most of the bad BDs are made out of old, bad transfers.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Funcha

I have no doubt Sony will be right out the gate with The Fifth Element, and the Spider-Man, and Men in Black films. With Disney now in charge of Lucasfilm, maybe a true 4K Star Wars trilogy will be even closer than we think? Of course, the Twilight Time Fright Night in 4K will probably be straight up $100! Ha.

This almost sounds like an idea for a separate thread where we guess what the first titles will be.

I think we'll see a first generation of releases where you just get the film and nothing but, perhaps, a trailer. I think we'll see a Dark Knight Trilogy just to get the ball rolling.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Years ago (2006 to be precise), about 2 months prior to it be being ‘officially’ announced, I revealed the title of thee very first movie that would debut on BD50 disc (Click)….if past practices are predictable to future formats, any guesses as to what will be the first movie to appear on 4K Blu-ray ?

Or, conversely, do you think content provider(s) should *up their game*, so to speak, and offer a more prestigious title with the launch of the first 4K Blu-ray movie?

From Universal, I expect Twister and U571, they seem to be staple releases on a new format from them, twister was one of the first DVD's. I would like Jurassic World.

[Stlsports]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah, 4k will be the standard for the next 500 years. Who needs advancement?

I await the bore fest that is 'the law of diminishing returns' lecture now!

Advancement to what? 8k?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Nope, we'll probably get another shitty Adam Sandler movie and Smurfs 2 from Sony.

Wouldn’t this be a kicker for the first 4K Blu-ray title - Pixels (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2120120/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1 )

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Actually, I think that will be less of an issue now. Going to 2160p resolution will necessitate studios doing a lot of new transfers. Pulling re-heated 1990s telecine output (made using some clapped out tube telecine with NR baked in) off the shelf won't be an option.

Heh. We've seen the disdain with which Universal treats its catalogue (which you've experienced first-hand with The 'Burbs) so I wouldn't put anything past them...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Funcha

I have no doubt Sony will be right out the gate with The Fifth Element, and the Spider-Man, and Men in Black films. With Disney now in charge of Lucasfilm, maybe a true 4K Star Wars trilogy will be even closer than we think? Of course, the Twilight Time Fright Night in 4K will probably be straight up $100! Ha.

Holy shitbeans, the timing of that couldn't be better. New 4K format in late 2015, new SW film being released at the same. To go from "they don't exist any more" (© George Lucas) to holding a pristine 4K restoration in my own hands....I think I'd drop dead on the spot out of sheer delight.