Dolby Atmos, Auro, and 3D audio thread

[AVinstallGuy]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Commercial theaters are able to accommodate up to 34 speakers, 10 overhead and 24 terrestrial. The home version is limited to 4 additional Atmos overhead speakers and a max of 11 speakers plus up to 4 sub woofers so for example you could have a 7.4.4 Atmos speaker system. FYI, Marantz, Denon and Onkyo can decode up to 11 Atmos channels, Pioneer is limited to 9 Atmos channels.
-Robert

This is not entirely true.

The pro cinema Dolby Atmos system can render to 64 speaker feeds. They are not limited to a certain number of low and high as the setup software allow the installer to enter the location of each speaker. The only limitation is the speakers on the sides and ceilings have to be in pairs. Most typical setups do run the same number on the top and side, but that is not required. The back wall can be an odd number. I have only seen the screen be either 3 or 5 but the software does let you put in 7. There are a few rooms using all 64, I saw one that was 5 screen, LFE, 2 surr bass speakers, 12 on each side and 2 rows of 12 on the ceiling, and 8 across the back. in Consumer naming, that would be 37.3.24 I also saw a small screening room with 3 across the screen, 1 LFE, just 4 on each side, 4 on the back, and 2 rows of 3 overhead. That comes out to 15.1.6 so the pro system is very flexible.

I have been told the consumer version maxes out at 24.4.10 but the chip sets in most consumer AVR's currently max out at 7.4.4 with just 11 full range outputs available. My personal room has a ring of 9, using 2 on each side in my current 7.1 setup. I want to feed them independent when I go Atmos. So I need a chipset that can feed at least 13 full range outputs. Hopefully, the second gen units will get past the 11 channel DSP limitation. The Trinov Altitude is using the consumer codec with their own DSP setup to provide 32 outputs. I have no info about what the possible layouts will be. It is just shy of the max of the codec.

[Robert Zohn]

Thanks ZoetMB and AVinstallGuy for your corrections to my post.

-Robert

[HDMan72]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Still at work as I just can't go home and don't know if I can ever leave my store.... Dolby Atmos is in the house!

After a hard week of begging all of our suppliers to get all of the equipment and software upgrades, BD demo discs and pushing our staff to get two of our showroom demo rooms completely set up we are finally enjoying the amazing Dolby Atmos multidimensional audio in our theater and main showroom.

The experience is very enveloping and engaging. One clip is Enrique Iglesias in a music video that has us all dancing and singling along. The rain forest had us all scrambling for umbrellas and rain coats.

This is as much fun and serious entertainment that anyone can possibly ask for.

Tomorrow is our first public Atmos demo day and we'll be inviting all of our walk in folks to experience the bleeding edge in real immersive movie theater and real life entertainment.



Seeing our Marantz SR7009 light up with the words Dolby Atmos gave me a chill.



Enjoy!

-Robert

Looks like your running with Def Tech A60's atop 8060ST's. DO you have 8060ST's installed for rears too?! I'm currently using A60's also with my 8060ST's. I can only do 5.1.2 since my Onkyo is 7ch only. I would love to get my hands on the Dolby demo disc to really hear some subtle surround, Transformers Age Of Extinction does sound incredible but it is a real aggressive mix with a whole lot going on.

[Robert Zohn]

Yes, they are Def Tech's BP-8060HD with the Atmos 60 tops. On this Atmos speaker system we have SR8040 bi polar rears.

-Robert

[nst7]

Okay, so my Best Buy Magnolia department finally did the firmware upgrade to enable the Atmos compatibility. I was able to rewatch the Dolby demo disc, as well as some scenes from Transformers 4. It was a definite improvement to regular surround and very enjoyable.

Keep in mind this is with the Pioneer upward firing speakers. I firmly believe that the optimal experience will still be with dedicated downward firing speakers on the ceiling.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

If what I am told is true as long as the receiver has HDMI 2.0 the chip set is upgradable to HDCP 2.2 through firmware.

Also any older receiver can be upgraded to accommodate Atmos with the addition of a new processor. So your excellent SC-71 can be upgraded to Atmos with a new pre-pro.

Commercial theaters are able to accommodate up to 34 speakers, 10 overhead and 24 terrestrial. The home version is limited to 4 additional Atmos overhead speakers and a max of 11 speakers plus up to 4 sub woofers so for example you could have a 7.4.4 Atmos speaker system. FYI, Marantz, Denon and Onkyo can decode up to 11 Atmos channels, Pioneer is limited to 9 Atmos channels.

To take advantage of all 11 Atmos channels you will need one external 2 channel power amp as the receivers have 9 amps built-in.

Most home theaters don't need more than 11 speakers plus subs so I don't expect the home version of Atmos will be an issue.

-Robert

I know one of my setups will never be Atmos, as it is primarily used for television/Netflix viewing, which will probably never be Atmos. My main theater will get a 4k, HDCP 2.2 receiver, which more than likely will have full Atmos support.


The timeline is dictated by 4K viewing, not Atmos. I think it would be jumping the gun to get it now - I want full compatibility, and after getting spun in circles by DTS lossless audio (and my original receivers didn't do Dolby lossless, either), I've learned that patience pays.


I'll sit on the sidelines until the marketing matches the technology. No more betting on this stuff for me, my track record leaves something to be desired. As does bleeding edge technology.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by nst7

Okay, so my Best Buy Magnolia department finally did the firmware upgrade to enable the Atmos compatibility. I was able to rewatch the Dolby demo disc, as well as some scenes from Transformers 4. It was a definite improvement to regular surround and very enjoyable.

Keep in mind this is with the Pioneer upward firing speakers. I firmly believe that the optimal experience will still be with dedicated downward firing speakers on the ceiling.

That's what I'm thinking, especially with a sloped ceiling. Every house in my neighborhood has one of those, as do most in the city I live in. That's got to be corrected in the offering from the manufacturers and developers.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

That's what I'm thinking, especially with a sloped ceiling. Every house in my neighborhood has one of those, as do most in the city I live in. That's got to be corrected in the offering from the manufacturers and developers.

I have a friend whose 9.1 setup has all the surround in the ceiling, now what?

Yes the L+C+R is around a fireplace with HDTV above it, the rest are in the ceiling.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Yeah as much as messing with the ceiling might be I still think that is the only way to do Atmos correctly for small/medium sized HT.

I'm really excited for this speaker tech to sort itself out, but I really think I'll stick with 5.1 for at least a year and a half to 2 years before they can sort out the receivers, and make up their minds, and drop the pricing.

The best side effect from Atmos that I can think of might be that even 5.1/7.1 soundtracks will have more going on in them mixed wise than before from the surround speakers. Obviously to get the full ceiling mix you will have to pony up, but that pony is out of it's mind right now 2G for a receiver, naw.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I know one of my setups will never be Atmos, as it is primarily used for television/Netflix viewing, which will probably never be Atmos. My main theater will get a 4k, HDCP 2.2 receiver, which more than likely will have full Atmos support.


The timeline is dictated by 4K viewing, not Atmos. I think it would be jumping the gun to get it now - I want full compatibility, and after getting spun in circles by DTS lossless audio (and my original receivers didn't do Dolby lossless, either), I've learned that patience pays.


I'll sit on the sidelines until the marketing matches the technology. No more betting on this stuff for me, my track record leaves something to be desired. As does bleeding edge technology.

Good points. Until the 4k media is readily available, its a coin flip on whats next with your setup.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I have a friend whose 9.1 setup has all the surround in the ceiling, now what?

Yes the L+C+R is around a fireplace with HDTV above it, the rest are in the ceiling.

My house came with drops for ceiling speakers in the weirdest locations.

Facing the TV "nook", with a fireplace next to it, the speakers are on the ceiling - centered between those two features. Sort of.

The two rears are sort of behind the TV. the right speaker is all the way across the room.

I think the architect came staggering out of the drawing room in a cloud of dope smoke, mumbling "I can't figure this s#@t out, put 'em anywhere," and just up and quit on the spot.

It sure won't to Atmos. The left speaker is almost six fee lower than the right speaker. Crazy.

[AVinstallGuy]

It all comes down to what the home owner is willing to do for the sake of Dolby Atmos. Nothing is impossible.

A room I installed a year ago had no side walls to speak of, and a vaulted ceiling. The left side of the room had a 7.5 foot high wall of glass looking out to the pool. We hung 2 surround speakers on poles down from the ceiling, just in front of the glass, leaving room for the vertical blinds to pass behind them, aimed down slightly across over the couch. These ended up about 5 feet off the floor, just above ear level. There was no back wall at all, the dining room was directly behind the couch. A pair of back surrounds were also hung on poles about 2 feet behind the couch, but kept at almost 7 feet off the floor so no one would hit their head on them. The right side was the real trick. The owner wanted to hang them at the same 5 foot height as the left sides, same distance off of screen center, but that would have been near certain head impacts. A judement call was made to move them further back and up to maintain the same angle as the left side ones, but 4 feet further away, to be corrected with distance settings, Eq, and level trimming. The end result got those speakers just under 7 feet up, but hanging well under the 13 foot vaulted ceiling on that side. After tuning, if you close your eyes, you would never know they are further away.

Adding 2 or 4 ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos in this room would be the same thing. Left side ones up tight to the ceiling, would probably end up about 8.5 to 9 feet high. Going the same distance to the right of picture center, the ceiling would be up over 10 foot high. I would hang them on longer poles down to the same height above ground. They could also be left further up and corrected with the distance and tuning like we did the right side speakers, but since these would still be plenty high to not be an injury hazard, keeping them in the correct place would seem a better choice.

I sure hope Home Dolby Atmos catches on well, this could mean a ton of new install work for us.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by AVinstallGuy

I sure hope Home Dolby Atmos catches on well, this could mean a ton of new install work for us.

I've had to solve for all kinds of positioning and cabling issues over time. Hanging the speakers is the only option, which will ruin the esthetic of the room if not done perfectly.


The speakers currently on the market, except at the very high end, are hideous. There is no way I'm going to hang a bunch of shoeboxes from the ceiling of my living room. Those thinks look like coffins for vampire bats.


This whole thing about Atmos installation has some very serious issues. Having something this cluttered and non-essential is going to slow down adoption, big time.

[Retrofit]

Newb here, please be kind.
Last year I bought into LG's "3D" sound HTIB. It's far from perfect, but sometimes it's great. My real point is the speakers have built in "height" speakers. By no means as great as downward firing speakers, but I think it passes the WAF.

I think Atmos is going to be a niche market, but I think something along the lines of what LG tried to do, a clean floor based speaker with height speakers built in will sell more than wiring speakers to the ceiling.

Just something to consider.

[jeffster15]

Sorry if this has been asked before. I don't have Atmos, when watching Transformers: Age of Extinction its only outputting Dolby digital. Is that normal? How to i get True HD or Master HD? Thanks

[Kirk Out]

Originally Posted by jeffster15

Sorry if this has been asked before. I don't have Atmos, when watching Transformers: Age of Extinction its only outputting Dolby digital. Is that normal? How to i get True HD or Master HD? Thanks

double check its not the dvd

[jeffster15]

Originally Posted by Kirk Out

double check its not the dvd

Haha I was watching in 3D so i know it was the blu ray. It must be a setting or something. I have a ps3 super slim as my player.

[ClaytonMG]

Originally Posted by jeffster15

Haha I was watching in 3D so i know it was the blu ray. It must be a setting or something. I have a ps3 super slim as my player.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think the slim can do 3D and lossless at the same time.

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by Retrofit

Newb here, please be kind.
Last year I bought into LG's "3D" sound HTIB. It's far from perfect, but sometimes it's great. My real point is the speakers have built in "height" speakers. By no means as great as downward firing speakers, but I think it passes the WAF.

I think Atmos is going to be a niche market, but I think something along the lines of what LG tried to do, a clean floor based speaker with height speakers built in will sell more than wiring speakers to the ceiling.

Just something to consider.

You're referring to LG's '9.1' speakers, aren't you? Dolby Atmos enabled speakers projects the overhead surrounds at an angle towards the centre of the listening area. That and there hasn't been a standard height surround content until recently. So I won't take LG system as a benchmark.

Originally Posted by jeffster15

Haha I was watching in 3D so i know it was the blu ray. It must be a setting or something. I have a ps3 super slim as my player.

Originally Posted by ClaytonMG

I may be mistaken, but I don't think the slim can do 3D and lossless at the same time.

ClaytonMG is close. :-)
PS3, the fatass, slim and skinny version doesn't do 3D BD with Dolby TrueHD. 3D and DTS-HD MA works fine.

The PS4 should not have this issue however.

[Retrofit]

That's fair.
My point is, it's a starting point.

A floor standing tall speaker, with a height/presence speaker built in looks clean and is simple to install- you just set it on the ground. That's the sort of thing a wife can tolerate.

Then Atmos asks how many speakers you are running, Audyssey samples your room, makes the adjustments it needs to make, BAM! It works!

Certainly the high end guy is going to do more than this. He won't even buy up firing speakers, but if we are talking about this catching on to the masses, I think an "all in one" speaker with height speakers built in, is the item that is going to sell.

My icon shows what the up firing speaker looks like. Sure there are better speakers, but this basic idea can go in a middle class house living room that is also the movie room, the wife can tolerate it, no weird wiring is involved, and after an automated Audyssey sample, it can bring a revolutionary level of sound quality to the middle class home.

When I build out the basement, I won't be moving my LG downstairs, I'll start over and do the best Atmos I can afford.

Originally Posted by BozQ

You're referring to LG's '9.1' speakers, aren't you? Dolby Atmos enabled speakers projects the overhead surrounds at an angle towards the centre of the listening area. That and there hasn't been a standard height surround content until recently. So I won't take LG system as a benchmark.







ClaytonMG is close. :-)
PS3, the fatass, slim and skinny version doesn't do 3D BD with Dolby TrueHD. 3D and DTS-HD MA works fine.

The PS4 should not have this issue however.