4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

This isn't going to happen. Its down to the people to move with the times. If people want to still purchase DVD's then that's their problem. As long as better technology becomes available, people will buy it, whether it be a small minority, technology is still moving forward. Which I believe is a good thing.

I am not going to jump on to the 4K bandwagon straight away, I am going to wait until it has become established, one thing I have learnt when it comes to new technology is never get the first bite. I am not going to lie, but I am excited about 4K Blu-ray, its something to look forward to and dream about owning.

Bring it on!

Not sure how you make 2 differing statements in the same paragraph. DVD isn't going to go away because the consumer will continue to buy it but if newer tech comes along the consumer will also buy that?

Yes the tech is moving forward, but so far the consumer (the majority not us who actually care enough to be in a place like this) aren't. My dad, who has a 65" Panasonic 3D plasma and a bevy of 3D blu-rays at his disposal sits and watches a crappy, choppy downloaded compressed piece of junk my brother gets and doesn't even notice how bad it looks never mind how choppy the video is. And he's a guy who'd go buy a 4K TV and blu-ray player around the second generation.

I've stated it many times before that DVD's continued dominance is directly tied to the studios not wanting to move the consumer forward in fear of some short-term backlash to their profits. It's in the studios control to ween people off off DVD and move them forward to HD and UHD formats. At a certain point in time you have to stop giving them the option. This happens with every generation of video game console. The older system is supported still for a time with less and less games being available (or being much lesser versions) until Sony or XBox announce that XXX will be the last game produced for the console. And these thing have a shorter life-cycle than the home video formats which have dominated for the past nearly 40 years.

Stop selling DVD only versions of the newest films. Stop selling DVD only versions of any new remasters. Include the DVD with the BD/3D/4K and have the manufactures stop making DVD players and Roms. Maleficent 3D +BD + DVD + Digital copy WILL sell for $25. And it gives the consumer all the choices they could want in 1 package. In 3 years start dropping the DVD's for anything new. If you want Frozen 2 you get a 4K3D + BD set. If you don't have a BD player by then (11 years after release) you can pick one up for under $50. And a 4K player for about $100.

The studios keep DVD alive not the consumers. And there's little point in bringing out 4K if you aren't going to kill .5K. At the current rate, PS@ and XBox were replaced about the same time BD showed up to replace DVD. At the current rate PS5 and Xbox 360+One will be released to market while stand alone DVD's still dominate store shelves. 1 step forward, 4 back.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

Not sure how you make 2 differing statements in the same paragraph. DVD isn't going to go away because the consumer will continue to buy it but if newer tech comes along the consumer will also buy that?

Yes the tech is moving forward, but so far the consumer (the majority not us who actually care enough to be in a place like this) aren't. My dad, who has a 65" Panasonic 3D plasma and a bevy of 3D blu-rays at his disposal sits and watches a crappy, choppy downloaded compressed piece of junk my brother gets and doesn't even notice how bad it looks never mind how choppy the video is. And he's a guy who'd go buy a 4K TV and blu-ray player around the second generation.

I've stated it many times before that DVD's continued dominance is directly tied to the studios not wanting to move the consumer forward in fear of some short-term backlash to their profits. It's in the studios control to ween people off off DVD and move them forward to HD and UHD formats. At a certain point in time you have to stop giving them the option. This happens with every generation of video game console. The older system is supported still for a time with less and less games being available (or being much lesser versions) until Sony or XBox announce that XXX will be the last game produced for the console. And these thing have a shorter life-cycle than the home video formats which have dominated for the past nearly 40 years.

Stop selling DVD only versions of the newest films. Stop selling DVD only versions of any new remasters. Include the DVD with the BD/3D/4K and have the manufactures stop making DVD players and Roms. Maleficent 3D +BD + DVD + Digital copy WILL sell for $25. And it gives the consumer all the choices they could want in 1 package. In 3 years start dropping the DVD's for anything new. If you want Frozen 2 you get a 4K3D + BD set. If you don't have a BD player by then (11 years after release) you can pick one up for under $50. And a 4K player for about $100.

The studios keep DVD alive not the consumers. And there's little point in bringing out 4K if you aren't going to kill .5K. At the current rate, PS@ and XBox were replaced about the same time BD showed up to replace DVD. At the current rate PS5 and Xbox 360+One will be released to market while stand alone DVD's still dominate store shelves. 1 step forward, 4 back.

That's wrong. The consumers and backwards compatible Blu-ray players keep DVD alive, not the studios. The studios have done just about everything possible to promote Blu-ray to DVD customers EXCEPT take major losses. You can't expect them, or any company to do that, and that's exactly what will happen if they discontinue DVD. They do combo packs to entice DVD buyers to future proof, they release the DVD bare bones while giving Blu-ray all the extras. They've even tried releasing Blu-ray a month early a couple of times. Disney did that with Pirates of the Caribbean 4 about 3 years ago. They haven't tried it since, and it's likely it was because it was a disaster, otherwise they would have at least tried to repeat the "experiment" on another title by now, to see if the waters are warmer. At this point, with Blu-ray (and DVD) sales in decline, they are more concerned about the future of digital.

But in any case, all the studios really care about is total sales (profits) from all formats. These days, almost all Blu-ray players will even play digital movies, so the player will play them all. It's not like VHS days where everyone had to choose between which format to buy because their new DVD player would not play VHS. Formats will coexist these days, and it's not a one format video world anymore.

[Tech-UK]

What I mean is that studio's are not going to scrap DVD because they still profit from it. If people don't want to know the difference between DVD's and Blu-ray's, as I said, that's their problem. For those of us who are interested in the format and people who have money who can afford to buy it because they can, there is no reason not to bring 4K Blu-ray out.

The studio's are actually in a better position to make money because a film is available on 3 physical formats, DVD, Blu-ray and 4K Blu-ray, they are catering for all markets both majority and minority.

Yes it will get to the stage where DVD will be ruled out, but I believe DVD is the biggest selling consumer video format out of them all. Studio's are not going to stop production of DVD. Consumers control demand, and demand makes money.

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

That's wrong. The consumers and backwards compatible Blu-ray players keep DVD alive, not the studios. The studios have done just about everything possible to promote Blu-ray to DVD customers EXCEPT take major losses. You can't expect them, or any company to do that, and that's exactly what will happen if they discontinue DVD. They do combo packs to entice DVD buyers to future proof, they release the DVD bare bones while giving Blu-ray all the extras. They've even tried releasing Blu-ray a month early a couple of times. Disney did that with Pirates of the Caribbean 4 about 3 years ago. They haven't tried it since, and it's likely it was because it was a disaster, otherwise they would have at least tried to repeat the "experiment" on another title by now, to see if the waters are warmer. At this point, with Blu-ray (and DVD) sales in decline, they are more concerned about the future of digital.

But in any case, all the studios really care about is total sales (profits) from all formats. These days, almost all Blu-ray players will even play digital movies, so the player will play them all. It's not like VHS days where everyone had to choose between which format to buy because their new DVD player would not play VHS. Formats will coexist these days, and it's not a one format video world anymore.

Well, Blu-Ray players should always be backwards compatible. Otherwise, if they stopped making DVDs/DVD players, we wouldn't be able to watch our movies/shows that are only available on DVD. Also, Disney tried that "experiment" on a few titles (a few of their Diamond Editions); maybe before Pirates 4, though. I think part of the reason they keep making standalone DVD releases is to get more double-dips. They're probably thinking some of the people that buy them will buy Blu-Ray eventually, so they'll buy it again. I do wish, though, that they would just release Blu/DVD combo packs, so people who aren't sure will have both options. Anytime I buy a movie as a gift for a friend or relative, I always buy the combo pack (if one is available).

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

That's wrong.

No, it's not wrong. The studios keep putting out stand alone DVDs and not moving to only releasing BD + DVD combos to eventually droppings DVDs all together. They don't want to take the short term hit in the bank account that 'might' happen if the average Joe can't buy ONLY the DVD for Frozen but instead has to buy the 3D + BD + DVD combo pack for $5 more.

The studios don't sell the added value of that combo or the benefit that BD has over DVD by keeping a brand new copy of Frozen on ONLY a DVD in the stores.

And the studios still spend thousands to remaster older films, scan them at 2K or 4K or even 6K or 8K and then convert them down for DVD only releases.

What the studios have not tried, and what I continue to say they needed to start doing 3 years ago, is release a new movie as a combo pack with no stand-alone DVD. That moves the consumer to buy the BD even if they only have a DVD player. And if they have a BD player and HDTV yet have only been buying DVDs it moves them into the world of BD. Do this for a few years and once BD player manufactures have ceased selling DVD players and brought along portable BD players there becomes little need for DVD to continue at all. Save for maybe family releases.

The standard for media is now 1080p. It may not be wholly 100% adopted but that doesn't fall on the consumer it falls on the providers. Doesn't change the point that most broadcast TV is at 1080p. The minimum resolution you can by in a flat panel is 720p (unless there's some very stupid company putting out lesser junk still) and you can't even buy tubes anymore. This 1080p standard has been around for 15+ years. Yet today, in 2014, film studios are STILL putting out brand new releases in the format that was developed some 20 years ago. And now they want to put out a 3rd format without moving away from the first.

Backwards compatibility is what needs to be sold on BD players when the manufactures STOP making DVD players.

I think I've explained this enough. People either get it and support it or are just out to lunch. Bottom line, studios are dumb.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

Anytime I buy a movie as a gift for a friend or relative, I always buy the combo pack (if one is available).

I buy them the BD regardless if there's a DVD in the package or not. If they don't have a BD player I tell them to get one. Hell I've got 4 sitting on a shelf in my basement just collecting dust that will play pretty much everything outside of 3D (and of course 4K).

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

They don't want to take the short term hit in the bank account that 'might' happen if the average Joe can't buy ONLY the DVD for Frozen but instead has to buy the 3D + BD + DVD combo pack for $5 more.

Obviously they'll take a short term hit, but what's the long term financial advantage? You assume that Blu-ray will stay at the same price it is now if DVD is eliminated, I don't see that happening. It's in the studios' best interest to offer DVD as a cheaper option and Blu-ray at a small premium.

For many customers under $20 is an important price point. With both options available they can offer one for less than $20, and have the other one be just slightly higher in price. With only a Blu-ray option it would have to be under $20 to get high sales. The same principle applies to $10 & $5 with later sales.

The only way that DVD will ever go away is if the sales drop, that is entirely up to the consumers.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

No, it's not wrong. The studios keep putting out stand alone DVDs and not moving to only releasing BD + DVD combos to eventually droppings DVDs all together. They don't want to take the short term hit in the bank account that 'might' happen if the average Joe can't buy ONLY the DVD for Frozen but instead has to buy the 3D + BD + DVD combo pack for $5 more.

The studios don't sell the added value of that combo or the benefit that BD has over DVD by keeping a brand new copy of Frozen on ONLY a DVD in the stores.

And the studios still spend thousands to remaster older films, scan them at 2K or 4K or even 6K or 8K and then convert them down for DVD only releases.

What the studios have not tried, and what I continue to say they needed to start doing 3 years ago, is release a new movie as a combo pack with no stand-alone DVD. That moves the consumer to buy the BD even if they only have a DVD player. And if they have a BD player and HDTV yet have only been buying DVDs it moves them into the world of BD. Do this for a few years and once BD player manufactures have ceased selling DVD players and brought along portable BD players there becomes little need for DVD to continue at all. Save for maybe family releases.

The standard for media is now 1080p. It may not be wholly 100% adopted but that doesn't fall on the consumer it falls on the providers. Doesn't change the point that most broadcast TV is at 1080p. The minimum resolution you can by in a flat panel is 720p (unless there's some very stupid company putting out lesser junk still) and you can't even buy tubes anymore. This 1080p standard has been around for 15+ years. Yet today, in 2014, film studios are STILL putting out brand new releases in the format that was developed some 20 years ago. And now they want to put out a 3rd format without moving away from the first.

Backwards compatibility is what needs to be sold on BD players when the manufactures STOP making DVD players.

I think I've explained this enough. People either get it and support it or are just out to lunch. Bottom line, studios are dumb.

The studios don't give a hoot anymore about converting consumers from DVD to Blu-ray. That ship has sailed. Now the game is getting them to convert from physical to digital.

The studios apparently have learned that providing consumers a choice is the best way to maximize revenue, not by trying to force them to buy something they don't want, or spend more than they're willing to spend on multiple format "bundles". They have tried it a few times, but obviously they discovered that dropping the DVD SKU is not the best route to go for their bottom line. You may think they are stupid, but that's naive. The are the ones who know their own sales figures and what works best. It's easy to blindly second guess based on outdated theories.

And the studios are not the ones who want to put out a 3rd physical format. That would be the BDA and the hardware manufacturers.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

I think I've explained this enough. People either get it and support it or are just out to lunch. Bottom line, studios are dumb.

Maybe I've missed it (and I'm not saying that sarcastically) but have you explained what the benefits of this forced migration would be?

Why should I care if somebody else still buys DVDs?

[GenPion]

The only benefit I could perceive is if everyone started to buy Blu-ray editions if no DVD only editions existed and thereby movies NOT being released on Blu-ray at all become readily available on Blu-ray.

However, this is something I don't foresee happening with the way the market is.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some DVD editions end up dropping to like $4-6 around holiday sales. Blu-ray's drop for holiday sales as well, but not as much (especially for newer films). And some catalog titles stay around a specific pricing model, period. With a DVD only edition (which costs less per unit to produce) they can target a wider audience of people who only want to spend a few bucks tops on a movie sometimes. Whereas Blu-ray is basically intended for A/V enthusiasts and the biggest movie nerds. Essentially.

[Canada]

Are you suggesting that you can hear to 96 KHz? I was able to hear it when it was part of the Police: Certifiable Blu-ray. It is the best audio I have heard period, while I know it is a musical Blu-ray I am assuming it could help with audio for theatrical movies also.

[Tech-UK]

Originally Posted by octagon

Maybe I've missed it (and I'm not saying that sarcastically) but have you explained what the benefits of this forced migration would be?

Why should I care if somebody else still buys DVDs?

Exactly.

I don't see why Lentulus Batiatus is getting frustrated about others buying DVD's. It's not like studio's have given up on physical media, we wouldn't be seeing 4K Blu-ray if they had.

We have all probably been there, with friends and family trying to tell and even show them Blu-ray, but the bottom line is, a lot of people are not interested, but as long as physical media is still being bought, we A/V heads still have a chance.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

Exactly.

I don't see why Lentulus Batiatus is getting frustrated about others buying DVD's. It's not like studio's have given up on physical media, we wouldn't be seeing 4K Blu-ray if they had.

We have all probably been there, with friends and family trying to tell and even show them Blu-ray, but the bottom line is, a lot of people are not interested, but as long as physical media is still being bought, we A/V heads still have a chance.

Yeah, the real competition for Blu-ray's future is digital, not DVD. It's not Blu-ray vs. DVD anymore, they're on the same "team" now. It's physical vs. digital. If phasing out DVD gets some people to convert to Blu-ray, while driving most of the rest to digital (purchasing or streaming), then that won't be in Blu-ray's best interest in the long term, IMO. It will just make physical contract quicker while feeding digital's growth even more.

[Tech-UK]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Yeah, the real competition for Blu-ray's future is digital, not DVD. It's not Blu-ray vs. DVD anymore, they're on the same "team" now. It's physical vs. digital. If phasing out DVD gets some people to convert to Blu-ray, while driving most of the rest to digital (purchasing or streaming), then that won't be in Blu-ray's best interest in the long term, IMO. It will just make physical contract quicker while feeding digital's growth even more.

I agree.

I am not defending DVD as a format and I believe you aren't either, but I am defending it as a tool. I don't watch DVD's anymore, but as you said its on 'the same team', and if it helps to continue the life of physical media, I am in favour.

Streaming/downloading from the studio's point of view would be fantastic. They would reduce costs by getting rid of disc pressing, paper, packaging, distribution in terms of delivering the product to the stores etc. They wouldn't even need to setup their own distribution network as there are plenty of providers and CDN's with the knowledge and technology to supply the content to consumers. We need more people to buy physical media, period. Look what happened to music, and what did we get?

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Yeah, the real competition for Blu-ray's future is digital, not DVD. It's not Blu-ray vs. DVD anymore, they're on the same "team" now. It's physical vs. digital. If phasing out DVD gets some people to convert to Blu-ray, while driving most of the rest to digital (purchasing or streaming), then that won't be in Blu-ray's best interest in the long term, IMO. It will just make physical contract quicker while feeding digital's growth even more.

This is the argument that's needed in the thread about Fox giving up on Blu-ray releases for some TV shows (link below). It bothered me how many people in that thread would rather support streaming or downloads over DVD.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=248286

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

Look what happened to music, and what did we get?

It's music that's made me more hopeful about the whole physical media thing. What did we get? We got vinyl back. The greatest of all physical formats!

Sure, the sales are tiny but the main thing is, almost every new release gets a vinyl version now - certainly wasn't that way ten years ago or so when CD was king. You really had to hunt around in those days for a vinyl edition.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

I agree.

I am not defending DVD as a format and I believe you aren't either, but I am defending it as a tool. I don't watch DVD's anymore, but as you said its on 'the same team', and if it helps to continue the life of physical media, I am in favour.

Streaming/downloading from the studio's point of view would be fantastic. They would reduce costs by getting rid of disc pressing, paper, packaging, distribution in terms of delivering the product to the stores etc. They wouldn't even need to setup their own distribution network as there are plenty of providers and CDN's with the knowledge and technology to supply the content to consumers. We need more people to buy physical media, period. Look what happened to music, and what did we get?

I rarely buy or watch DVDs anymore, just those that are not viable for a Blu-ray release (mainly obscure older films). With physical you get control over your purchase, whether it's a DVD or Blu-ray. So to me the whole physical vs. digital issue is about who will be in control over purchased content: the consumer or the studios. Keeping the DVD buyers happy will mean fewer people going over to digital and encouraging the studios even more to give it preference, while giving the shaft to physical.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

LOL the responses are just ridiculous. I mean you make posts saying it's the consumers who control the continued release of DVD then state it's the studios who are abandoning the better quality formats. Well, which is it?

What ever. Studios are dumb and don't appear to be the only ones. Enjoy. I'm out.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Lentulus Batiatus

LOL the responses are just ridiculous. I mean you make posts saying it's the consumers who control the continued release of DVD then state it's the studios who are abandoning the better quality formats. Well, which is it?

What ever. Studios are dumb and don't appear to be the only ones. Enjoy. I'm out.

When consumers don't buy things on Blu-ray, studios don't offer things on Blu-ray. That sounds like the consumers are in control to me.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I agree with the first part but vehemently disagree with the second.

Do you really think lcd's where price competitive with plasma? I want you to finds one lcd that had pq quality comparable to the st60 (besides the sharp elite which cost a lot more) and that isn't even exactly a high end plasma. Lcds where great for bright environments or if you had static images on your screen frequently, otherwise plasma curb stomped lcd in terms of pq (especially at the same price point).