Viz Licenses Original Sailor Moon Anime Franchise

[madlost1]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

There is absolutely no benefit to Viz doing this the way they have done it. You do not seem to grasp that they haven't simply upconverted these masters. They have changed them as well, and for the worse. IF they had JUST upconverted them then you'd be totally correct, the Blu-rays WOULD be worth it over the DVDs. But they HAVEN'T, they have degrained and smoothed over and messed up the inverse telecine to produce the ghosting. If another company came out with an English friendly Blu-ray using the same SD source, that was untouched and JUST upconverted, it would look many times greater than Viz's Blu-rays.

Oh my God are you kidding right now. The Blu rays are still superior to the DVDs in the regard that if you bought the DVDs and played them upscaled on your player you'd see unintentional artifacts due to the upconverion process that won't be there on a genuine 1080 release of the same exact master. For someone who claims to be a videophile you should absolutely know this but it just seems like your kicking it to the curb to gain support for your side of things.

[madlost1]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Can we all just agree that although yes, there is ghosting (I've seen it on my TV whilst in motion), that it's still super cool that Sailor Moon is even being released in the United States period. And we should all just rejoice in all the magical girl goodness and stop fighting?

In all the episodes in set 1, I've only really noticed the ghosting in 4 episodes, and each time it lasts a ½ second. So can't we all just forgive VIZ and say "well at least they tried" – Can't we all just get along?

Its not about the ghosting at this point and only one person seems to care so much about any of this that they are willing to argue it into the ground.

[EddieLarkin]

You're not contradicting my post. I was under the impression that GenPion and I were discussing the 1080p Viz Blu-rays vs the foreign DVDs upscaled. As in, who cares about some "unintentional artifacts" on the latter when Viz's remaster has introduced something far worse on the former?

Unless you're saying that it's worth getting the VIZ Blu-rays over the VIZ DVDs to avoid the unintentional artifacts on the latter. Which is fine, you're right that the Blu-ray would be better. But worth it? $22 vs $52? Er, no.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

You're acting like replacements are some unheard of thing that never happens. I agree its unlikely for the remastering issues of the Blu-rays.

I'm not ignoring anything, I have advocated buying these releases over anything else. I recognise that they are the best English friendly releases. If the picture was upside down they'd still be the best English friendly releases. And no doubt you'd be ok with that too for the same reason


There is absolutely no benefit to Viz doing this the way they have done it.

I don't know what Japan or any future set coming from there has to do with anything since obviously it won't be English friendly. It could be a million times better or a million times worse, it wouldn't make a difference.

First off, I'd welcome replacements discs from VIZ if they can find a way to correct the ghosting and avoid it on future sets. Do I expect it to happen? No, and you yourself have said how you don't because of how their own remastering process was.

Secondly, a release where the video was upside down would be boycott worthy, and I would never advocate buying. I don't see how you would consider that something that makes these VIZ release still the "best" available? I would take horribly dated and poor encodes over upside down presentations.

Thirdly, I noted the benefits and discussed how I disliked some of the drawbacks to the PQ.

Lastly, you say other international editions don't make any difference, which is odd because we are talking about what the best presentation possible for this show is and you seem to feel the JP edition is superior. This is also a bit funny because there was some DNR on the Japanese remasters too, which has been noted before buy import buyers. Did VIZ affect the image with some post-processing that is disappointing? Seems that way. Does it make it a set that we should start boycotting? I don't think so. And I don't think it sounds like you advocate buying them, either. You say the DVD is a better value and the Blu-ray's aren't worth it (even though there are other areas where there is gain). And you seem so upset over the presentation. I don't think you should buy these sets if you are that displeased. It's available on Hulu Plus for far less.

Some of us who are A/V enthusiasts like myself see the set as having pros and cons, but are still VERY happy just to have the show again in the US and better than previous editions.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by GenPion

First off, I'd welcome replacements discs from VIZ if they can find a way to correct the ghosting and avoid it on future sets. Do I expect it to happen? No, and you yourself have said how you don't because of how their own remastering process was.

Would you welcome replacements of the DVDs in the set, so that they used the untouched master instead? It would look far better than the Blu-rays, even after your player had upscaled it.

Originally Posted by GenPion

Secondly, a release where the video was upside down would be boycott worthy, and I would never advocate buying. I don't see how you would consider that something that makes these VIZ release still the "best" available? I would take horribly dated and poor encodes over upside down presentations.

You wouldn't be OK with an upside down release, I wouldn't be OK with a scrubbed to hell master riddled with errors. It's just a further step down the PQ ladder. My breaking point simply comes sooner than yours.

Originally Posted by GenPion

Lastly, you say other international editions don't make any difference, which is odd because we are talking about what the best presentation possible for this show is and you seem to feel the JP edition is superior. This is also a bit funny because there was some DNR on the Japanese remasters too, which has been noted before buy import buyers. Did VIZ affect the image with some post-processing that is disappointing? Seems that way. Does it make it a set that we should start boycotting? I don't think so. And I don't think it sounds like you advocate buying them, either. You say the DVD is a better value and the Blu-ray's aren't worth it (even though there are other areas where there is gain). And you seem so upset over the presentation. I don't think you should buy these sets if you are that displeased. It's available on Hulu Plus for far less.

I see no evidence of DNR on the Japanese masters at all. The Italian release is superior, but to me it looks like it was simply down to better encoding. The foreign versions are relevant insofar as they show us that Viz had access to something much superior to what they've given us. They are not relevant as alternative buying choices, for very obvious reasons.

I stated only a few posts ago that I don't advocate a boycott. I advocate telling Viz that they screwed up and that they should issue replacements. It's not like there's a downside to that.

Originally Posted by GenPion

Some of us who are A/V enthusiasts like myself see the set as having pros and cons, but are still VERY happy just to have the show again in the US and better than previous editions.

Well again, that's why we've ended up with a set that has cons at all. If consumers' standards were higher, Viz's would be as well.

[madlost1]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Unless you're saying that it's worth getting the VIZ Blu-rays over the VIZ DVDs to avoid the unintentional artifacts on the latter. Which is fine, you're right that the Blu-ray would be better. But worth it? $22 vs $52? Er, no.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Yes it is worth that much of a difference for a few reasons that you keep sweeping under the rug.

1. No compression artifacts in the video presentation from up-scaling the DVDs through the player.
2. The audio for both the English and Japanese tracks on the Blu being lossless compared to Lossy on the DVD's.
3. The art box on the limited edition.
4. The booklet that comes with said limited edition with the episode guide and character profiles.

If that isn't worth $30 to you then fine buy the DVD's and let others be content with the Blu-rays.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Would you welcome replacements of the DVDs in the set, so that they used the untouched master instead? It would look far better than the Blu-rays, even after your player had upscaled it.


You wouldn't be OK with an upside down release, I wouldn't be OK with a scrubbed to hell master riddled with errors. It's just a further step down the PQ ladder. My breaking point simply comes sooner than yours.



I see no evidence of DNR on the Japanese masters at all. The Italian release is superior, but to me it looks like it was simply down to better encoding. The foreign versions are relevant insofar as they show us that Viz had access to something much superior to what they've given us. They are not relevant as alternative buying choices, for very obvious reasons.

I stated only a few posts ago that I don't advocate a boycott. I advocate telling Viz that they screwed up and that they should issue replacements. It's not like there's a downside to that.


Well again, that's why we've ended up with a set that has cons at all. If consumers' standards were higher, Viz's would be as well.

I detest the use of DNR. So I wish you would stop saying things that suggest I've given some kind of glowing endorsement of every aspect of the release. I'm not as concerned about the DVD's, because I see benefits to their own upsampling to 1080p and lossless HD audio.

Are you going on that one pic for the JP edition not having DNR? I saw a complaint about it before but can't remember what site... but some buyer/importer had been disappointed. It might have been Fandom Post.

In any case, I don't know how to get VIZ to offer a version without DNR. I'd be thrilled if they did something about the DNR. But as that's now what is on the set, I don't really expect at all for them to re-do it. That never happens. The only time a really bad overly processed presentation really got fixed was Gladiator. I don't see that happening for Sailor Moon. (And don't mention The Fifth Element as the US "fix" one had lots of terrible artificial sharpening).

[EddieLarkin]

But the poorer the master itself looks, the less improvement between the formats there is. Where usually there would be a large improvement between a Blu-ray and a DVD in a dual format set, the master that Viz have created is so bad that the improvement will be miniscule.

And for the record, there are scaling artifacts in every single screen cap posted here:

http://imgur.com/a/I7apm

So Viz didn't even do that good of a job on the upconvert. I wouldn't be that surprised if it's no better than what your player can do with a DVD.

[madlost1]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

You wouldn't be OK with an upside down release, I wouldn't be OK with a scrubbed to hell master riddled with errors. It's just a further step down the PQ ladder. My breaking point simply comes sooner than yours.

I see no evidence of DNR on the Japanese masters at all. The Italian release is superior, but to me it looks like it was simply down to better encoding. The foreign versions are relevant insofar as they show us that Viz had access to something much superior to what they've given us. They are not relevant as alternative buying choices, for very obvious reasons.

An upside down release and a slightly disappointing master are nowhere even in the same ballpark as far as big deals go.

Did you ever think that maybe the masters that were provided to VIZ weren't the same as were used for the foreign releases. Toei have already shown that they don't care to keep this kind of stuff when I believe it was mentioned they destroyed the original film elements. Whats to say they didn't somehow lose the masters that were used on the foreign DVDs.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I detest the use of DNR. So I wish you would stop saying things that suggest I've given some kind of glowing endorsement of every aspect of the release. I'm not as concerned about the DVD's, because I see benefits to their own upsampling to 1080p and lossless HD audio.

So you're saying you would prefer to spend $52 on a Blu-ray over $22 on a DVD that looks vastly better than the Blu-ray (assuming replacement), so you can have "upsampling benefits" and lossless audio?

Originally Posted by GenPion

In any case, I don't know how to get VIZ to offer a version without DNR. I'd be thrilled if they did something about the DNR. But as that's now what is on the set, I don't really expect at all for them to re-do it. That never happens. The only time a really bad overly processed presentation really got fixed was Gladiator. I don't see that happening for Sailor Moon. (And don't mention The Fifth Element as the US "fix" one had lots of terrible artificial sharpening).

No you're right, it's probably a lost cause. They won't do it. But again, the DVDs stand a very good chance because there is a major QC error on them that is completely separate from the remaster. All you have to do is ask at sjsupport@viz.com or post on their Facebook. Though that depends on if you'd really rather just have inferior Blu-rays instead. If so, fair enough.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by madlost1

An upside down release and a slightly disappointing master are nowhere even in the same ballpark as far as big deals go.

Did you ever think that maybe the masters that were provided to VIZ weren't the same as were used for the foreign releases. Toei have already shown that they don't care to keep this kind of stuff when I believe it was mentioned they destroyed the original film elements. Whats to say they didn't somehow lose the masters that were used on the foreign DVDs.

I don't know if the original masters were destroyed. I hope not... I don't think that sounds likely but I suppose you never know.

Toei never does remastered-from-film Blu-ray's anymore though. They do their own upsampling and it's worse than most American companies produce for anime releases. I keep bringing that point up too, but EddieLarkin doesn't seem to care about that.

[madlost1]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I don't know if the original masters were destroyed. I hope not... I don't think that sounds likely but I suppose you never know.

Toei never does remastered-from-film Blu-ray's anymore though. They do their own upsampling and it's worse than most American companies produce for anime releases. I keep bringing that point up too, but EddieLarkin doesn't seem to care about that.

I'm pretty sure someone in this thread mentioned it. I agree Toei has become a joke recently. At this point I'm tired of arguing with him as it doesn't seem anything is getting through to him.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by madlost1

Did you ever think that maybe the masters that were provided to VIZ weren't the same as were used for the foreign releases. Toei have already shown that they don't care to keep this kind of stuff when I believe it was mentioned they destroyed the original film elements. Whats to say they didn't somehow lose the masters that were used on the foreign DVDs.

Because Viz said they were using the master that was released in 2009, and that they were going to do their own remaster of it.

The German DVDs that used the same master came out less than a year ago, so there's no reason to think they've been "lost". Indeed, they're still coming out. The second half of Sailor Moon S is released at the end of this month. In a superior DVD edition to Viz's Blu-ray. It is ridiculous.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

So you're saying you would prefer to spend $52 on a Blu-ray over $22 on a DVD that looks vastly better than the Blu-ray (assuming replacement), so you can have "upsampling benefits" and lossless audio?

No you're right, it's probably a lost cause. They won't do it. But again, the DVDs stand a very good chance because there is a major QC error on them that is completely separate from the remaster. All you have to do is ask at sjsupport@viz.com or post on their Facebook. Though that depends on if you'd really rather just have inferior Blu-rays instead. If so, fair enough.

There's a $22 difference between editions. I think the Blu-ray upsampling, lossless audio, artbox, and booklet are all good benefits over the DVD only release. This is my own opinion, OK?

As to the DVD request, I actually like some of the areas of improvement even as I dislike other areas. So I don't much like the idea of asking for a better DVD edition so we can compare some pros for that vs. some pros for the Blu-ray sets. I don't think VIZ would do that either as then consumers concerned about such things would feel like both had major drawbacks and probably not buy either.

[Imaginarion]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Because Viz said they were using the master that was released in 2009, and that they were going to do their own remaster of it.

The German DVDs that used the same master came out less than a year ago, so there's no reason to think they've been "lost". Indeed, they're still coming out. The second half of Sailor Moon S is released at the end of this month. In a superior DVD edition to Viz's Blu-ray. It is ridiculous.

Well, you can go move to Germany then and buy that one.

There are other things about this release that excite me, like the excellent new dub, the beautiful chipboard box, and the fully uncut, unedited content of the episodes. Is PQ important? Certainly. But I, and others I'm sure, look for other things too when I buy a show on DVD/BD.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I don't know if the original masters were destroyed. I hope not... I don't think that sounds likely but I suppose you never know.

See above. They're doing fine.

Originally Posted by GenPion

Toei never does remastered-from-film Blu-ray's anymore though. They do their own upsampling and it's worse than most American companies produce for anime releases. I keep bringing that point up too, but EddieLarkin doesn't seem to care about that.

Irrelevant. Toei haven't upsampled Sailor Moon, they haven't released a Blu-ray. If they did, it would not be an alternative buying choice. We've gone through this.

Originally Posted by madlost1

I'm pretty sure someone in this thread mentioned it. I agree Toei has become a joke recently. At this point I'm tired of arguing with him as it doesn't seem anything is getting through to him.

Well you have a good idea of how I feel then.

[madlost1]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Because Viz said they were using the master that was released in 2009, and that they were going to do their own remaster of it.

The German DVDs that used the same master came out less than a year ago, so there's no reason to think they've been "lost". Indeed, they're still coming out. The second half of Sailor Moon S is released at the end of this month. In a superior DVD edition to Viz's Blu-ray. It is ridiculous.

Oh really I didn't realize that VIZ's Blu of S was already out. Please tell me where you bought your copy.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by GenPion

There's a $22 difference between editions. I think the Blu-ray upsampling, lossless audio, artbox, and booklet are all good benefits over the DVD only release. This is my own opinion, OK?

But I didn't ask you that.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by madlost1

Oh really I didn't realize that VIZ's Blu of S was already out. Please tell me where you bought your copy.

Oooh good catch. I'll clarify that obviously I meant better looking than Viz's current Blu-ray release.

[Scarface32]

Can't we all just get along?