Blu-ray vs. Laserdisc DTS (Yes... Laserdisc)

[csseahawk]

You have only have DVD and blu-ray BECAUSE of Laserdisc. The fantastic sound you get from Blu-ray, DTS master audio and Dolby TrueHD, is traced DIRECTLY back from LD. The multi-channel sound formats were first introduced to consumers via LD. The better picture and audio we experience today are due to the fact of laserdisc pushing the envelope and allowing people to see that there was such a thing as HOME THEATER.

Think VHS would have wanted people to go get a home theater setup? Seriously? 240 lines of resolution? Ugh. Until laserdisc, the only way you could watch a film at home was to go buy an ACTUAL projector. Think people were going to go do that? Then spend the thousands of dollars to go buy the actual movies on film? LD was the first to show movies in film quality with THEATER sound to the masses IN THEIR OWN HOMES.

Laserdisc was the beginning of better and higher standards, as well as the beginning of home theater. So yeah, laserdisc was/is kinda, sorta, maybe important.

[HDTV1080P]

Yes in the 90’s Laserdisc was the best quality format in terms of both picture and sound quality. Laserdisc was also the first optical disc format for consumers (1978). When the DVD format arrived in 1997 the first single layer 4.7GB DVD movies had some digital artifacts, however within a couple of years DVD’s offered a better picture quality when compared to Laserdisc when movies were placed on 8.5GB dual layer DVD’s.

Today, the ultimate optical disc format for picture quality is the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray format.

[invenio]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Today, the ultimate optical disc format for picture quality is the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray format.

Except that as of today, there are no 4K blu-rays in release. We have to wait another month for those movies to start coming out and the catalog size is a tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction of the catalog available on laserdisc. Actually, there are far more title releases on laserdisc than even standard blu-ray.

[super390]

Originally Posted by alphadec

Well I own both a laserdisc player and a bluray player and vhs!.

Your claim that LD is twice the resolution o vhs is something that is completely wrong. What we are talking about here is a analog system and at the time LD was made then we hade resolution 525-lines, so thats the same as we have on vhs.

Again I dont see the fascination for LD today when we have blu-ray that is many times better.

Okay, here's how it worked with analog. 525 lines was the number of scan lines in NTSC, of which 480 were active, but interlaced odd/even. All formats used with NTSC monitors had those 480 lines. But with analog, the amount of HORIZONTAL resolution, side to side, could vary. 240 was the measurement given for VHS, but that was based on a formula of "lines per picture height", meaning we would act as if the 1.33 aspect ratio picture were a square shape, meaning we only measure across 3/4 of the picture width. Don't ask me why. Broadcast NTSC was 330 lines per picture width, but affected by video reception. Laserdisc was 425 lines per picture width. When DVD came along, new digital nomenclature was clumsily introduced based on computer monitors, and officially the picture was 480 X 640 pixels for 1.33 aspect ratio, and 480 X 720 for "anamorphic" video. Confusion ensued, and I was happy to forget about all this over the years.

[meremortal]

Many LD soundtracks arguably still sound fantastic today. The main appeal, at least to me, is to hear older catalog titles in their original mono or stereo mix. For some reason the vast majority of major studio catalog titles on blu ray only include a 5.1 or 7.1 multichannel version of those mixes. Debate is certainly open to comparing each title, but I definitely prefer to have the mix closest to the original theatrical sound. And as for ld dts vs blu dts, it's usually apples and oranges. I don't think the 24 bit resolution necessarily gives much of an advantage over the 16 bit version provided they're coming from the same source. So I'd say they're fairly often comparable of the ones I've heard. With the amount of space on a blu ray disc, it would be nice if all titles contained at a minimum the original sound mix in a lossless form and an "alternative" 5.1/7.1 mix for those who are used to everything being in surround sound. Some of the smaller companies like Synapse have made this standard practice and it's really appreciated.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by invenio

Except that as of today, there are no 4K blu-rays in release. We have to wait another month for those movies to start coming out and the catalog size is a tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction of the catalog available on laserdisc. Actually, there are far more title releases on laserdisc than even standard blu-ray.

first batch are coming out next week - yet it looks like Fox are chimping out on their promise of Atmos mixes on the UHD - after they stated said mixes would be exclusive to the 4K editions.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by meremortal

Many LD soundtracks arguably still sound fantastic today. The main appeal, at least to me, is to hear older catalog titles in their original mono or stereo mix. For some reason the vast majority of major studio catalog titles on blu ray only include a 5.1 or 7.1 multichannel version of those mixes.

Many major films had discrete 70MM mixes though.

[hogger129]

Blu-ray has lossless DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos and PCM. As far as I knew, Laserdisc only has lossy DD, DTS or PCM.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by hogger129

Blu-ray has lossless DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos and PCM. As far as I knew, Laserdisc only has lossy DD, DTS or PCM.

But had original theatrical mixes so it wins

[invenio]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

But had original theatrical mixes so it wins

Agreed. I have a lot of LD's that sound better because they are using a superior mix.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by invenio

Agreed. I have a lot of LD's that sound better because they are using a superior mix.

As I said, the LD could not reproduce the discrete 70MM

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

But had original theatrical mixes so it wins

Totally depends. Some of the remixed ones sound better. I have a few Criterion Blu-rays where the original mix was used.

[Riddler95]

I remember reading that 5.1 Mixes on LaserDisc were usually the exact same mixes that were played with the movies during their theatrical run. They wouldn't even re-optimize the mixes for the home theater setup. So you would be getting very dynamic audio, with heavy use of the surround channels, and really strong low-frequency effects from the subwoofer.

Apparently the movie studios continued this trend with DVD. But a few years after DVD launched the movie studios began to create not one but two mixes. The first would be for the theatrical presentation and it would be mixed and mastered specifically for a cinema. Then the second would be for the DVD and it too would be mixed and mastered specifically for the home theater setup; apparently the movie studios continued doing this for Blu-Ray as well.

Hopefully I'll acquire an AC-3 Demodulator for a good deal this year so I can finally listen to the 5.1 Mixes in Dolby Digital on some of my LaserDiscs.

[Dubstar]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

I remember reading that 5.1 Mixes on LaserDisc were usually the exact same mixes that were played with the movies during their theatrical run. They wouldn't even re-optimize the mixes for the home theater setup. So you would be getting very dynamic audio, with heavy use of the surround channels, and really strong low-frequency effects from the subwoofer.

Apparently the movie studios trend continued with DVD. But a few years after DVD launched the movie studios began to create not one but two mixes. One would be for the theatrical run and the second would be mixed and mastered specifically for the home theater setup.

Hopefully I'll acquire an AC-3 Demodulator for a good deal this year so I can finally check out some of the 5.1 Mixes in Dolby Digital on some of my LaserDiscs.

the dynamic range on the Dolby Digital AC-3 of 'Jurassic World' was a perfect example of really low lows and then conveying the treble of the raptors screeching - when the raptor breathes on the glass window - the accompanying snort raises the hairs on one's neck, the bluray doesn't capture this very well.

as I noted before in this thread, there's also a very ominpresent bass during the end battle in 'Saving Private Ryan' that the bluray doesn't retain.

the uncompressed range of noise during the opening meteor destruction of New York City in 'Armageddon' doesn't match the bluray audio either - when the Empire State Building crashes onto the street below the treble is ear shattering.

'Stormchasers' (an IMAX doc) on laserdisc actually states not to playback the disc too loud - the storm sequences are SO loud, I actually blew out a speaker, even though it was advertised not to.

[Riddler95]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

the dynamic range on the Dolby Digital AC-3 of 'Jurassic World' was a perfect example of really low lows and then conveying the treble of the raptors screeching - when the raptor breathes on the glass window - the accompanying snort raises the hairs on one's neck, the bluray doesn't capture this very well.

as I noted before in this thread, there's also a very ominpresent bass during the end battle in 'Saving Private Ryan' that the bluray doesn't retain.

the uncompressed range of noise during the opening meteor destruction of New York City in 'Armageddon' doesn't match the bluray audio either - when the Empire State Building crashes onto the street below the treble is ear shattering.

'Stormchasers' (an IMAX doc) on laserdisc actually states not to playback the disc too loud - the storm sequences are SO loud, I actually blew out a speaker, even though it was advertised not to.

I didn't see Jurassic World in the cinema during it's theatrical run. I haven't even watched it on Blu-Ray yet but I did borrow the DVD from the Public Library and I was very impressed with the 5.1 Dolby Digital Track.

I borrowed my friend's DTS DVD Edition of Saving Private Ryan back in November because I had never seen the entire movie and the 5.1 DTS Track blew me away.

I think that the Digital Audio on LaserDisc is still terrific to this day. They really knew how to take advantage of audio on LaserDisc. I've noticed that on LaserDisc and DVD there is a bit of a punch in the audio that you don't get with Blu-Ray, but the punch is more apparent on LaserDisc. I've never actually heard 5.1 Audio on LaserDisc, just PCM Stereo & Dolby Pro Logic. But as I said in my previous comment, hopefully I'll acquire an AC-3 Demodulator for a good deal this year so I can finally listen to the 5.1 Mixes in Dolby Digital on some of my LaserDiscs.

Over the years I've heard lots of comparisons of lossy audio on DVD to lossless audio on Blu-Ray and quite frankly I can't really tell the difference. It is rare when I hear a Blu-Ray that actually sounds noticeably better than it's DVD counterpart. Both sound identical to my ears most of the time. The only time I can hear a noticeable improvement in the audio on Blu-Ray is if they made a brand new mix. Raiders of the Lost Ark is a good example. The 5.1 Mix on the 2003 DVD sounded great but they made a brand new 5.1 Mix for the 2012 Blu-Ray and it sounds noticeably superior.

I have a friend who went to school for audio and he told me on Monday that he's compared lossless audio on Blu-Ray to lossy audio on DVD and the improvement from Blu-Ray was very minimal. He also told me that lossy Dolby Digital and DTS are still used significantly.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by csseahawk

You have only have DVD and blu-ray BECAUSE of Laserdisc. The fantastic sound you get from Blu-ray, DTS master audio and Dolby TrueHD, is traced DIRECTLY back from LD. The multi-channel sound formats were first introduced to consumers via LD. The better picture and audio we experience today are due to the fact of laserdisc pushing the envelope and allowing people to see that there was such a thing as HOME THEATER.

Think VHS would have wanted people to go get a home theater setup? Seriously? 240 lines of resolution? Ugh. Until laserdisc, the only way you could watch a film at home was to go buy an ACTUAL projector. Think people were going to go do that? Then spend the thousands of dollars to go buy the actual movies on film? LD was the first to show movies in film quality with THEATER sound to the masses IN THEIR OWN HOMES.

Laserdisc was the beginning of better and higher standards, as well as the beginning of home theater. So yeah, laserdisc was/is kinda, sorta, maybe important.

Yes, LaserDisc was very important, but when you down VHS...it was HI-FI VHS that got me into home theater. That was before the popularity of LD. I heard my first HI-FI VHS movie and I was hooked. I guess because I was watching on a 27 inch TV (which was considered large at the time), I didn't pay attention to video much - but I've always paid attention to audio. I actually owned a HI-FI Super VHS along side a Pioneer LD player. I still own a Panasonic LD player from 1995...still works too.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Riddler95

I remember reading that 5.1 Mixes on LaserDisc were usually the exact same mixes that were played with the movies during their theatrical run. They wouldn't even re-optimize the mixes for the home theater setup. So you would be getting very dynamic audio, with heavy use of the surround channels, and really strong low-frequency effects from the subwoofer.

Apparently the movie studios continued this trend with DVD. But a few years after DVD launched the movie studios began to create not one but two mixes. The first would be for the theatrical presentation and it would be mixed and mastered specifically for a cinema. Then the second would be for the DVD and it too would be mixed and mastered specifically for the home theater setup; apparently the movie studios continued doing this for Blu-Ray as well.

Hopefully I'll acquire an AC-3 Demodulator for a good deal this year so I can finally listen to the 5.1 Mixes in Dolby Digital on some of my LaserDiscs.

If your current system can decode dolby digital, you will not need the AC-3 Demodulator. I remember the old Yamaha and Pioneer Elite demodulator devices. Now you should be able to go via optical/coax to your receiver - it should be able to detect and demodulate the AC-3 tracks just fine.

[prerich]

Originally Posted by Dubstar

the dynamic range on the Dolby Digital AC-3 of 'Jurassic World' was a perfect example of really low lows and then conveying the treble of the raptors screeching - when the raptor breathes on the glass window - the accompanying snort raises the hairs on one's neck, the bluray doesn't capture this very well.

as I noted before in this thread, there's also a very ominpresent bass during the end battle in 'Saving Private Ryan' that the bluray doesn't retain.

the uncompressed range of noise during the opening meteor destruction of New York City in 'Armageddon' doesn't match the bluray audio either - when the Empire State Building crashes onto the street below the treble is ear shattering.

'Stormchasers' (an IMAX doc) on laserdisc actually states not to playback the disc too loud - the storm sequences are SO loud, I actually blew out a speaker, even though it was advertised not to.

I actually have the "Stormchasers" (IMAX Doc) on DVD and WMVHD in 1080p (pre-bluray)!!!! I still have it and view it today and it is astounding - specially when the plane catches a lighting bolt!

[Mr.Twinks]

I was a big time fan of laser disc since my dad bought one back in 80 or 81. Later in the mid 90's I finally bought one and inherited all of my dads movies. I bought a second Pioneer LD player (forgot model) but it also played the new format, DVD. From what I remember the video and audio was better on the LDs than the first gen (1996) DVDs. Iirc, DVDs didn't top/match LDs (imo) till 2000. My display was the uber heavy Sony 40" XBR and it had great picture.

Sadly though, I only found one place that rented LDs where I was living. So like most folks I rented VHS from the local BlockBuster or Hollywood video.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by prerich

If your current system can decode dolby digital, you will not need the AC-3 Demodulator. I remember the old Yamaha and Pioneer Elite demodulator devices. Now you should be able to go via optical/coax to your receiver - it should be able to detect and demodulate the AC-3 tracks just fine.

That's not how it worked on LaserDisc.


You need the RF demodulator because they used the analog right channel as a carrier for the AC-3 signal. Current receivers are looking for a pure S/PDIF signal to decode. The analog carrier has to be removed - hence the demodulator. There were receivers with it built in as a separate input (AC-3 RF).

You'll still get sound from the optical/coax - that's because it's decoding the 2.0 PCM on the LD. You're not getting the 5.1

When LD went away so did the demodulating feature of Dolby Digital receivers.