8K discussion thread

[HDTV1080P]

Before the native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies started appearing on the market in early 2016, there was 4K upscaling Blu-ray players on the market. Maybe in 2021 CES or in later years Sony and Panasonic might launch 8K upscaling Blu-ray players. However I hope they do not release 8K upscaling Blu-ray players, because around the year 2026 if native 8K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies are released, then some consumers will wonder why they cannot play their native 8K Blu-ray discs on a 8K upscaling Blu-ray player (it would cause consumer confusion).

[PaulGo]

In my area Comcast can easily match Verizon FiOS download speeds (they offer gigabit speed). What is currently lacking is the upload speed which is not symmetrical. However, technology changes and new standards are evolving which will allow cable companies to offer symmetrical service.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Before the native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies started appearing on the market in early 2016, there was 4K upscaling Blu-ray players on the market. Maybe in 2021 CES or in later years Sony and Panasonic might launch 8K upscaling Blu-ray players. However I hope they do not release 8K upscaling Blu-ray players, because around the year 2026 if native 8K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies are released, then some consumers will wonder why they cannot play their native 8K Blu-ray discs on a 8K upscaling Blu-ray player (it would cause consumer confusion).

What else did your crystal ball tell you?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Before the native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies started appearing on the market in early 2016, there was 4K upscaling Blu-ray players on the market. Maybe in 2021 CES or in later years Sony and Panasonic might launch 8K upscaling Blu-ray players. However I hope they do not release 8K upscaling Blu-ray players, because around the year 2026 if native 8K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies are released, then some consumers will wonder why they cannot play their native 8K Blu-ray discs on a 8K upscaling Blu-ray player (it would cause consumer confusion).

At the moment you'd be lucky if anyone announced a new 4K player, never mind one with 8K upscaling. We're seeing the hardware side of things slow way down with UHD players as there just isn't that need to keep re-releasing these with minor firmware or cosmetic tweaks every year. There's very little competition for those that do release 4K models so they don't need to keep sexing them up with stupid shit like 8K upscaling.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

....the fact of the matter is originally those with a heavy vested interest in promoting 8K over 4K tvs, be it marketing reps from Samsung, Sony or LG have essentially backed off from trying to validate it from the standpoint of the human visual system and now are sort of conceding that 8K tvs simply have better stuff (processing, etc.) than their 4K counter parts, which rightly or wrongly, grinds at 4K tv owners

^ continuing ->
this evolution in strategic marketing began subtlely around the time of CES 2020, e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkwSyF39AQ0#t=7m52s

with particular silence as to the human visual system aspect benefits of 8K tvs after the Zink et al. study used uncompressed files - https://www.techhive.com/article/352...ifference.html

to be clear, this review of the marketing of 8K tvs is not meant to be either anti-8K tv, nor pro-8K tv but rather to enlighten those somewhat unfamiliar with the course of events like that YouTube blogger from a couple pages back

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ continuing ->
this evolution in strategic marketing began subtlely around the time of CES 2020

I wouldn't even want to discuss CES 2020 as evolution.

CES 2020 was sprawling and glorious, but terrible for decision-makers - VentureBeat

CES 2020 was not a good show for business decision makers, particularly those who prefer quick summaries and easy, low-risk choices. The event’s increasingly vast scope is impossible for even a small team of people to canvas comprehensively. And its mix of current, near-future, far-future, and never-happening technologies creates a minefield for anyone looking to make easy purchasing or investment choices.

While we received some brands 2020 TV models, most of this EXPO was not interesting.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

While we received some brands 2020 TV models, most of this EXPO was not interesting.

That's because it was an interim show - no new tech. Just some filling in of product lines.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

That's because it was an interim show - no new tech. Just some filling in of product lines.

Roberts favorite.

Stormtroopers at Panasonic CES event - YouTube

Hold it right there don't move. (like they wanted the audience not to run away).

[peterv]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

At the moment you'd be lucky if anyone announced a new 4K player, never mind one with 8K upscaling. We're seeing the hardware side of things slow way down with UHD players as there just isn't that need to keep re-releasing these with minor firmware or cosmetic tweaks every year. There's very little competition for those that do release 4K models so they don't need to keep sexing them up with stupid shit like 8K upscaling.

Indeed ...

Besides, my 8K TV - and I guess all future 8K TVs will do that too - does all the upscaling of my 4K Ultra HD Blu-rays already. I wonder if a dedicated chip in a player would do a better job? Perhaps because it will be newer, it will use better algorithms and hopefully a more modern dedicated chip would use a little less energy, too. The 65 inch 8K Samsung gets rather warm when I watch a 90 minute movie, it uses ~ 0.5 kWh

[Robert Zohn]

@JohnAV, actually my favorite 2020 CES event was the 8K panel discussion that I participated in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJVl...ature=youtu.be

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@JohnAV, actually my favorite 2020 CES event was the 8K panel discussion that I participated in.

I realize that, but I was also sure you remembered the questionable Panasonic CES 2020 presentation.

Panasonic CES 2020 was an odd one, mostly about batteries, olympics and automotive stuff, very little Consumer Tech and to make it more weird, they threw in Star Wars, very, very awkward

I was using this as a example of lack of technical news at CES 2020.

I posted your presentation on 1/9/2020

This is all from the CES January 5-10, 2020 What happens in Las Vegas will be broadcast World Wide thread you created, and I readily contributed to.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Before the native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies started appearing on the market in early 2016, there was 4K upscaling Blu-ray players on the market. Maybe in 2021 CES or in later years Sony and Panasonic might launch 8K upscaling Blu-ray players. However I hope they do not release 8K upscaling Blu-ray players, because around the year 2026 if native 8K Ultra HD Blu-ray players and movies are released, then some consumers will wonder why they cannot play their native 8K Blu-ray discs on a 8K upscaling Blu-ray player (it would cause consumer confusion).

2021 CES will highlight ATSC 3.0. New lines of 4K TVs with 3.0 tuners built in. They may even broadcast 2160P UHD content in Las Vegas so that all the new TVs could show how wonderful the images look on both 4K and 8K TVs. LOL - this may be the only true UHD broadcasts in the USA. Of course once the show is over they will revert back to 1080P. And there will be vendors showing 3.0 hardware that can be attached to a 1.0 TV to allow viewing 3.0 content.

I know you strongly believe that there will be an 8K BD format. The problem I see is no one else agrees with you. Have you ever seen an article of blog that says there will be an 8K BD format? I haven't. They all say . . . nope. You are basing your speculation on what has happened in the past and you are using that formula to say what will be in the future. The problem with that theory is that it doesn't take into account all the problems and issues that would need to be dealt with along with a market that continues to decline each year.

The current crop of 8K TVs do what their manufacturers claim: upscale HD, 4K to 8K. I guess that's why sales are so tepid along with prices that are considerably higher than what the majority of people would be willing to pay for a TV. It's hard enough to get people to spend $1000 for a TV let alone some multiple of that number.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

I know you strongly believe that there will be an 8K BD format. The problem I see is no one else agrees with you. Have you ever seen an article of blog that says there will be an 8K BD format? I haven't. They all say . . . nope. You are basing your speculation on what has happened in the past and you are using that formula to say what will be in the future. The problem with that theory is that it doesn't take into account all the problems and issues that would need to be dealt with along with a market that continues to decline each year.

The current crop of 8K TVs do what their manufacturers claim: upscale HD, 4K to 8K. I guess that's why sales are so tepid along with prices that are considerably higher than what the majority of people would be willing to pay for a TV. It's hard enough to get people to spend $1000 for a TV let alone some multiple of that number.

Your premise is mostly based on non-technical magazine articles instead of matters of fact. Will there be some kind of permanent storage of higher density capacity, yes. Will it be a repeat of the the same physical format example possibly.

You know darn well we have to allow the industry to catch up on recording higher resolution content compared to the present 4k ecosystem where there was a lot of content available. Does the fact that some movies have already been shot with Red cameras since 2017 just bounce off your head because you have this flat earth bias?

A portable or transportable storage medium associated with 8K is highly likely. This won't be about much higher capacity hardware storage, EE storage, or RAM that is constantly scaling , it will be centered around the science of recording near permanent archives of content onto some static/permanent medium that is oriented to consumer usage.

Physical media refers to the physical materials that are used to store or transmit information in data communications. These physical media are generally physical objects made of materials such as copper or glass. They can be touched and felt, and have physical properties such as weight and color. For a number of years, copper and glass were the only media used in computer networking.

The term Physical media can also be used to describe pressed or prerecorded optical media like CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays, specially when compared with modern streaming media or content that has been downloaded from the internet into a hard drive or other storage device, like a USB drive.

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

I guess that's why sales are so tepid along with prices that are considerably higher than what the majority of people would be willing to pay for a TV. It's hard enough to get people to spend $1000 for a TV let alone some multiple of that number.

Does the fact that you are still using your old HD plasma or HD projector have any bearing on this opinion? Purchasing of 4K sets are so reasonable now, almost no one online here has any qualms about that. If 8K sets becomes more mainstream in the future are you just going to hide under a rock even longer?

[JohnAV]

The conclusion of the earlier Sound & Vision poll, received 1697 votes.

S&V Poll: 4 in 10 Plan to Buy an 8K TV

We wanted to bring S&V readers into the conversation so we asked a simple question: “Do you plan to buy an 8K TV?”

Almost four in ten respondents (38%) plan to buy an 8K TV now (10%) or when “set prices come down and 8K programming is available” (28%). Another one in three (28%) have no current plans but will “reconsider when 8K programming becomes widely available,” which is still at least a few years away. Then there are those (33%) who have no plans to buy an 8K TV “now or in the immediate future.”

In the comments section, reader “Old Ben” thinks “8K is past the point of diminishing returns” and wants more detail on how 8K outperforms 4K in terms of “pixel quality” and the reduction in digital artifacts Chinnock mentioned in the interview. Others chimed in to support this position.

At the other end of the spectrum, one reader pointed to price as a key factor in buying an 8K TV and another, who has been waiting for an affordable big-screen 4K OLED TV, now thinks 8K might be worth the wait. “Just recently it seemed as if progress was centered around processing rather than panel but now I think it’s both,” he wrote.

Here’s a rundown of the poll results:

33% – I have no plans to buy an 8K TV now or in the immediate future.
28% – Yes, but I will wait until set prices come down and 8K programming is available.
28% – I have no plans to buy an 8K TV but will reconsider when 8K programming becomes widely available.
10% – Yes! I’m eager to take advantage of the new features and capabilities state-of-the-art 8K TVs bring to the table.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ continuing ->
this evolution in strategic marketing began subtlely around the time of CES 2020, e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkwSyF39AQ0#t=7m52s

with particular silence as to the human visual system aspect benefits of 8K tvs after the Zink et al. study used uncompressed files - https://www.techhive.com/article/352...ifference.html

to be clear, this review of the marketing of 8K tvs is not meant to be either anti-8K tv, nor pro-8K tv but rather to enlighten those somewhat unfamiliar with the course of events like that YouTube blogger from a couple pages back

The Samsung spokesman sounded like more like a politician evading answering questions!

[JohnAV]

TVs over the years have grown cheaper, smarter and much bigger - CNET 6/20/20

If you could point to one tech trend over the last 25 years, it's that gadgets are getting smaller. Phones, computers, watches -- all pack more power into more compact packages than ever. A quarter century ago a phone was the size of a brick and did nothing but make calls. A PC was a box on a desk with a fat monitor. A watch was pretty much the same size but just told time: It couldn't begin to imagine all the functions we see in today's smartwatches.

TVs took a different path. They got smarter too, but with the advent of flat-panel LCD, plasma and OLED technology they've also grown. A lot. Two decades ago a 32-inch TV was massive and ridiculously heavy -- typically more than 100 pounds and bulky enough to require its own piece of furniture. Today that same screen size is considered too small for many bedrooms and you can get an inconceivably gigantic 75-inch screen for less than $1,000.

"Screen sizes keep getting bigger and that has proven to drive interest and demand," said Steven Baker, VP of industry analysis at NPD group. "The No. 1 reason people buy a new TV is for the screen size and I don't expect that to change."

To 85 inches (for $1,000) and beyond
I agree with Baker: People will always want bigger, cheaper TVs. The next frontier is almost incomprehensibly huge -- 85 inches -- but today you can buy one for $1,700. It won't be long before it costs $999 or even less. That might be close to the upper limit for traditional flat-panel LCD and OLED tech when you consider shipping and factors like, you know, fitting the thing through a doorway, but modular MicroLED and rollable OLED are two current solutions for that, in addition to good old-fashioned projectors.

Since I started other TV trends have taken hold too. Today's sets have scads of built-in streaming apps, Alexa and Google Assistant voice control, 4K and 8K resolution with high dynamic range and more. But the most noticeable change for me has always been that ballooning size, and as far as I'm concerned it's a good thing. When it comes to home entertainment, bigger really is better.

$1700 85" discussed is the Samsung UN85TU8000FXZA, it's a example of how cheap technology has become.

The highlighted text reflects what this industry needs to eventually migrate to IMHO so that larger displays are more easily deployed. TV's have certainly grown a lot larger than what we can haul them home easily or sell them used.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

TVs over the years have grown cheaper, smarter and much bigger - CNET 6/20/20

$1700 85" discussed is the Samsung UN85TU8000FXZA, it's a example of how cheap technology has become.

The highlighted text reflects what this industry needs to eventually migrate to IMHO so that larger displays are more easily deployed. TV's have certainly grown a lot larger than what we can haul them home easily or sell them used.

The 8000 isn’t what I consider as acceptable quality, tho. I’d rather spend the same money on a better 65” rather than getting a larger but much poorer quality display; But YMMV.

[Lee A Stewart]

An 8K disc format is unlikely. Here's why

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1573809746


No 8K upgrade for Blu-ray, admits 8K Association

https://www.homecinemachoice.com/con...8k-association


UHD 8k TV sales healthy but no chance of 8k Blu-ray format

http://www.insideci.co.uk/news/uhd-8...ay-format.aspx


Low Probability Of 8K Blu-ray As TV Sales Soar

https://www.channelnews.com.au/low-p...tv-sales-soar/

What equipment I own has nothing to do with my prognostication of future events which is based on the law of diminishing returns. At the rate of physical disc's decline, by 2026 sales will be at least 50% to 75% lower than they are today. Hollywood has seen that UHD-BD has not stopped that decline so what will be the motivating factor for the creation of 8K Blu-ray?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

What equipment I own has nothing to do with my prognostication of future events which is based on the law of diminishing returns. At the rate of physical disc's decline, by 2026 sales will be at least 50% to 75% lower than they are today. Hollywood has seen that UHD-BD has not stopped that decline so what will be the motivating factor for the creation of 8K Blu-ray?

Back in 2017 you had this article
The resolution war: is cinema falling behind home entertainment on innovation? - Screen Daily. 11/7/2017

The cinema industry has consistently managed to innovate the viewing experience ahead of home entertainment — but there are signs this may be stalling. Having introduced digital projectors capable of playing back content at 4K resolution in 2007, ahead of TV, exhibition is on the verge of being leapfrogged by consumer technology.

Globally the number of installed 4K projectors is 27,500, comprising just 17% of total screens worldwide. Sony took the lead in supporting 4K with its vertically integrated business, which spans from content to hardware (projectors, cameras, TVs). Its global fleet of roughly 17,000 projectors is 4K compliant, while only 10% of projectors sold by Barco, Christie and NEC are 4K. According to analytics company IHS Markit, the markets with the highest penetration of 4K digital projection are the US (40%), Thailand (35%) and Estonia (52% of a small total base). In the UK, 32% of screens are 4K.

“4K has not become the dominant format as many in the industry hoped,” says David Hancock, director, film and cinema at IHS Markit. “There’s been a lack of momentum needed for all productions to go to 4K.”

“Ten years ago, 4K became a buzzword, an added feature — some would say a marketing device — to convince exhibitors to buy 4K instead of 2K projectors,” adds Brian Claypool, VP of product management for global cinema at technology company Christie. “But even now, we’re seeing only 20% of content released by the studios in 4K.”

One inhibitor is cost. Production processes can be computationally expensive because of the need to transfer, store and manipulate greater amounts of data at every stage. “This also comes with an increase in artist cost due to the extra detail required,” explains Graham Jack, chief technical officer at visual effects company Double Negative. “Having the extra resolution available in VFX is often useful, as we may need to zoom in or process the image in some way, but dealing with higher resolutions increases demand on resources.”

Here we are in 2020, and you know that in 2017 Guardians of the Galaxy 2 was film at 8K. James Cameron is saying Avatar 2 will be a 8K movie. (So they said back a few years)

Grand Strand movie theaters struggle to stay open - 9/17/2019

Notice this comment

MYRTLE BEACH, S.C. (WMBF) - For decades, going to the movie theater has always been a form of family entertainment, but with an increase in streaming services, some theaters have been forced to shut their doors.
Duane Farmer, the general manager of Grand 14 at The Market Common, has been working in the movie theater business for 20 years and runs the daily operations at the theater.
He said in recent years keeping up with the technology has put some of the smaller theaters in a financial bind.
“Everything is digital and crystal clear so we’ve had to get better projectors, and new lenses going from 2K to 4K to 6K; now they’re offering 8K projectors,” said Farmer.

So yeah this year you start seeing HDMI2.1 being standard in the 2020 consumer models of better TV's and some AVR's.

Its this chipping away of issues that only a few years ago people thought hey the 8K cameras are huge, the TV.s cost $100000, no one has shot any 8K movies that I see steady process with this industry that convinces me you haven't seen the best this industry can offer.

I am not saying the Blu-ray association will even be part of whats next, just that a 8K eco system need some kind of physical storage media to facilitate content being played without long downloads over the internet or satellite connections. In that light its coming no matter how many of these online rags discuss its can't be done or its pretty much impossible. I seen way too much innovations to shove anything aside.

[Lee A Stewart]

Source: IMDB