Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

SCLee thanks for being open minded, I don't know where to begin with these comments. This Thread started 5 years ago, and I have been a member since 2009 when I did prefer Disc. I started to do 1:1 Back-ups with DVD then into Blu-ray, and saw that it was a File that could be Streamed to your TV and I preferred not to have all the Junk on the Commercial Disc. I realized that Streaming this File from a Disc was the same as Streaming from a Server. So when Streaming came along I embraced it, and it became my preferred Format.

Yes you could go back on my Postings, but I have always said that Disc was just a File on a Storage Device put that same File on a Server and you should get the same Quality. Bitrate became the big divider between Disc and Digital. That's why your readings from your 4K Player became a main topic that had to be verified. There are only a few on this Thread that prefer Digital and some both, but the ones that prefer Discs can be vicious and will do just about anything to prove their point. Like I said, it's all Digital made from the same DI, and the only dividing point is the Bitrate but the Streaming Providers are working with their given Bitrate to bring up that Quality.

Transferring data from an optical disc is not the same thing as streaming data over an internet connection to a remote server. The files on physical media are not the same as the highly compressed files found on a streaming provider's remote server. Accessing the data on physical media does not require an internet connection while streaming is entirely dependent upon such a connection. With physical media you own the disc and you have full control over the content upon it while with streaming you actually own nothing on that remote server and you have zero control over what happens to it.

To summarize, the files sizes are vastly different, what is required to access those files is entirely different, and discs convey ownership while streaming does not. Those are just three major differences between transferring data from a disc versus streaming data from a remote server. When something is that different then it is NOT the same.

The reality is that the file on that remote server is not the same as the file on the disc and therefore streaming is not in any way equivalent to that of disc. Further, streaming providers have done nothing to improve their streaming quality in years: we get the same bitrate starved streams replete with lossy audio. There is zero evidence that any streaming provider has any plans to raise their quality to match that of discs; that is your undying fantasy and nothing more. Streaming doesn't even provide lossless audio in the year 2020.

What you do with that digital intermediate source is what matters and with streaming it gets the hell compressed out of it and it is coupled with lossy audio all delivered in a bitrate that is greatly lower than the comparable disc format. The streamed data is then delivered via an often unreliable internet connection to remote servers that often can't meet the demand placed upon them. There are lots of weak links in the streaming chain and the hugely compressed file on those servers is only one of many.

Those of us that prefer the quality of discs are merely citing facts and the only thing "vicious" about that is that you can not refute them with your meaningless anecdotes. When you repeat the same falsehoods over and over year after year, you get corrected just as often and that might well make you feel like a poor widdle victim, but that is entirely your own fault for being so obstinate and for refusing to learn anything from any of the numerous people who have tried to teach you.

You have often, and with great glee, told people in this thread that discs are dying and you have gone so far as to express your hope for that outcome because you deliberately like to annoy people. It is what any garden variety troll would do and you have done it for so many years. You are not a victim; you are an instigator.

I did go back through some of your posts and I found plenty of examples of how you like to troll this thread:

From Jan. 10, 2017 and well before I even joined this thread:

Originally Posted by alchav21

I just like to Tweak these Disc Lovers so I kind of Embellish the information I have.

From Dec. 1, 2016:

Originally Posted by alchav21

I don't know what rock you are living under, but Streaming is taking over. You do know that you Stream from your Blu-ray Player, so why not directly from a Server. If you can't see the writing on the wall, you are still under that Rock.

And on it goes:

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes, you can bet that The Disc is Dead, that doesn't fit into Millennials Convenience, Efficiency, or Cost. It's going to be a total Digital World, and the quicker the better. They are nostalgic, so fond memories of their Grandparents Home Theater will keep them wanting this in their Homes.

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes Discs RIP!

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well I have been telling you guys this for a while, The Disc is Dead! If you don't think Streaming Video is King, you live under a Rock.

Originally Posted by alchav21

the 4K Discs are not selling.... Nobody wants Discs!

And still more...:

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Dying, dead, what's the difference for all practical purposes they are on the way out. Discs may be around for a while, but not too many people are buying them anymore. Don't quote me any Stats, that's ancient news get out and talk to people in real time and you'll get your answers.

Originally Posted by alchav21

Sorry I shouldn't say Discs are Dead, but they are Dying a Slow Death!

Originally Posted by alchav21

Discs are dying a slow death, but they will be around a while they'll just cost more.

Originally Posted by alchav21

This Thread has survived, but the Physical Discs are on their last Link. Even the Disk Gurus are saying that 4K is the last Physical Media. 8K TV's are here, but no Physical Discs, it's all Digital Streaming. It seems the only people buying 4K Discs are on this site. Anybody that I talk too is not buying Physical Discs, they just Stream. Physical had a good run, but if 8K Physical is not coming you guys will have to concede to Streaming!

Originally Posted by alchav21

I'm not worried, do you see me worried, but you guys should be. I say it doesn't look good, and Discs are on the way out. No matter what you guys say, owning and looking through a bunch of Discs is archaic. Doesn't it make more sense to have everything organized in Digital Files. We are in a Connected World, and Discs have out lived their usefulness.

Originally Posted by alchav21

Even here on Blu-ray.com using Discs is becoming Archaic, no one wants to do it anymore.

Originally Posted by alchav21

Steedeel did we shake your Funny Bone, you might as well face it Disc is Dead. ... So don't blame anybody except yourselves for the Demise of Discs!

Originally Posted by alchav21

Disc is dying and Obsolete

Originally Posted by alchav21

you're the last of a dying breed, Hard Core Disc Lovers. This is what this Thread is all about, and Digital HD is taking over, UV or Keychest. So take a deep breath, and embrace the change!

Originally Posted by alchav21

Physical is History Digital HD will Rule!

Originally Posted by alchav21

Hey Disc Guys, don't kill the messenger, I know Discs are your life but life moves on. Vilya Discs are on the way out, talk to anyone on the street and they are not buying them.

Originally Posted by alchav21

Discs are on a Death Spiral. The news keeps getting worse, just in the time you have been gone Disc sales have tanked. Studios are opting for Blu-Ray instead of 4K, it just doesn't look good.

If you look at the Hardware Threads, not having a high end UHD Player will give you poor play back results. So now a $10K set up is needed to give you an average 4K Disc Quality!

Originally Posted by alchav21

Steedeel, In your Opinion you're in Denial, Discs are History Digital HD is here to stay. Do you honestly think people will be buying Discs, and playing them in their Players? With Digital HD there are so many options, say good bye to Discs!

All of your above quoted comments were designed to provoke a reaction, not to engage in a discussion.

[film11]

Warners and Universal recently signed a new contract for working together on disc distribution for the next 10 years. So it should be around at least that long.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by alchav21

There are only a few on this Thread that prefer Digital and some both, but the ones that prefer Discs can be vicious and will do just about anything to prove their point. Like I said, it's all Digital made from the same DI, and the only dividing point is the Bitrate but the Streaming Providers are working with their given Bitrate to bring up that Quality.

As long as streaming file sizes against video and audio tracks are not equivalent to physical media you will never see streaming be anything more than 2nd fiddle to physical media as far as best presentation for home theater.

Its just 99% of the time this argument is based on cost. You the consumer are being told that you can buy HD and 4K movies online and it appears fairly palatable as its a bit cheaper and always there. But internet hosts are not an absolutely stable environment. Companies fail, with that there is the chance that not all the content you have licensed from one host will be available, or similar quality. But we seen things simply be removed lately as the major services yank content that goes back to the content owner that is setting up their own online service. (Disney, CBS, BBC/ITU, Warner, Peacock NBC). This is also applies to movies that you have licensed , you can't really buy anything online that is identified as permanently yours. Physically the studio can go bankrupt and the controlling parties of the content can renege anything from that studio from all online hosts, and you have no say because it really isn't yours. Pretty much anyone on this forums uses both online and physical. The studios have accepted that aspect of this business and provide for both until something superior comes along.

Now all it takes is some idiot to bring down a neighborhood's internet you know. Its always wise to have multiple ways to watch content not just one.

How about this in UK

The top four UK mobile operators have issued a joint statement asking for help to stop people burning 5G towers. Multiple cell towers were targeted in the UK last week in apparent arson attacks, after online conspiracy theories have been falsely linking the spread of the coronavirus pandemic to the roll out of 5G. There’s no scientific evidence to suggest a link, but the theories have been spreading widely on social networks like Facebook and Nextdoor.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Some BD vs 4K comparisons of Stars Wars I thru III (go argue now)

Stars Wars I

[Show spoiler]â–¶ Comparison of Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace 4K (2K DI) HDR10 vs Regular Version - YouTube

Stars Wars II

[Show spoiler]â–¶ Comparison of Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones 4K (2K DI) HDR10 vs Regular Version - YouTube

Stars Wars III

[Show spoiler]â–¶ Comparison of Star Wars/ Episode III - Revenge of the Sith 4K (2K DI) HDR10 vs Regular Version - YouTube

Thanks for all of those, but seeing as I have already ordered all of the Star Wars movies on 4K disc, I will soon be able to evaluate them for myself. After reading poor reviews for Episodes 1, 4, 5, and 6 my hopes are quite tempered, but I won't complain if I am pleasantly surprised.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by alchav21

SCLee thanks for being open minded, I don't know where to begin with these comments. This Thread started 5 years ago, and I have been a member since 2009 when I did prefer Disc. I started to do 1:1 Back-ups with DVD then into Blu-ray, and saw that it was a File that could be Streamed to your TV and I preferred not to have all the Junk on the Commercial Disc. I realized that Streaming this File from a Disc was the same as Streaming from a Server. So when Streaming came along I embraced it, and it became my preferred Format.

Yes you could go back on my Postings, but I have always said that Disc was just a File on a Storage Device put that same File on a Server and you should get the same Quality. Bitrate became the big divider between Disc and Digital. That's why your readings from your 4K Player became a main topic that had to be verified. There are only a few on this Thread that prefer Digital and some both, but the ones that prefer Discs can be vicious and will do just about anything to prove their point. Like I said, it's all Digital made from the same DI, and the only dividing point is the Bitrate but the Streaming Providers are working with their given Bitrate to bring up that Quality.

Stop playing the victim and respond to Vilya's reply that shows all of your combative and vicious posts. You are the instigator and to pretend otherwise says everything about your character.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Vilya

[Show spoiler]

Transferring data from an optical disc is not the same thing as streaming data over an internet connection to a remote server. The files on physical media are not the same as the highly compressed files found on a streaming provider's remote server. Accessing the data on physical media does not require an internet connection while streaming is entirely dependent upon such a connection. With physical media you own the disc and you have full control over the content upon it while with streaming you actually own nothing on that remote server and you have zero control over what happens to it.

To summarize, the files sizes are vastly different, what is required to access those files is entirely different, and discs convey ownership while streaming does not. Those are just three major differences between transferring data from a disc versus streaming data from a remote server. When something is that different then it is NOT the same.

The reality is that the file on that remote server is not the same as the file on the disc and therefore streaming is not in any way equivalent to that of disc. Further, streaming providers have done nothing to improve their streaming quality in years: we get the same bitrate starved streams replete with lossy audio. There is zero evidence that any streaming provider has any plans to raise their quality to match that of discs; that is your undying fantasy and nothing more. Streaming doesn't even provide lossless audio in the year 2020.

What you do with that digital intermediate source is what matters and with streaming it gets the hell compressed out of it and it is coupled with lossy audio all delivered in a bitrate that is greatly lower than the comparable disc format. The streamed data is then delivered via an often unreliable internet connection to remote servers that often can't meet the demand placed upon them. There are lots of weak links in the streaming chain and the hugely compressed file on those servers is only one of many.

Those of us that prefer the quality of discs are merely citing facts and the only thing "vicious" about that is that you can not refute them with your meaningless anecdotes. When you repeat the same falsehoods over and over year after year, you get corrected just as often and that might well make you feel like a poor widdle victim, but that is entirely your own fault for being so obstinate and for refusing to learn anything from any of the numerous people who have tried to teach you.

You have often, and with great glee, told people in this thread that discs are dying and you have gone so far as to express your hope for that outcome because you deliberately like to annoy people. It is what any garden variety troll would do and you have done it for so many years. You are not a victim; you are an instigator.

I did go back through some of your posts and I found plenty of examples of how you like to troll this thread:







And still more...:

[Show spoiler]

All of your above quoted comments were designed to provoke a reaction, not to engage in a discussion.

Thank you Vilya for providing such thorough evidence of his combative rhetoric. I know it must have been challenging to pour through that nonsense, but your efforts are appreciated.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Ender14

Thank you Vilya for providing such thorough evidence of his combative rhetoric. I know it must have been challenging to pour through that nonsense, but your efforts are appreciated.

That was just a sampling; while reading all of that again I could feel the blood leaving my brain.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by SCLee

If that's the case and he is spreading falsehoods and isn't listening, then maybe you all have a point.

Originally Posted by alchav21

I have always said that Disc was just a File on a Storage Device put that same File on a Server and you should get the same Quality.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Transferring data from an optical disc is not the same thing as streaming data over an internet connection to a remote server. The files on physical media are not the same as the highly compressed files found on a streaming provider's remote server.

We have explained the difference between streaming files and disc files numerous times but alchav21 has never learned anything from our post and links to sites with additional information.

In his fantasy world he believes the files that are on disc could be streamed over the internet. I hope you understand enough about the internet to know this is not going to happen. In fact the content providers are constantly pushing for ever lower data rates, they want smaller file sizes, not larger.

Click here for the current data usage as provided by Netflix for the US in prime time. As you can see the data rates (audio, video, error correction, etc.) are about the same or less than the lossless audio on a BD or UHD BD.

Netflix list several other countries, selection here.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

We have explained the difference between streaming files and disc files numerous times but alchav21 has never learned anything from our post and links to sites with additional information.

In his fantasy world he believes the files that are on disc could be streamed over the internet. I hope you understand enough about the internet to know this is not going to happen. In fact the content providers are constantly pushing for ever lower data rates, they want smaller file sizes, not larger.

Click here for the current data usage as provided by Netflix for the US in prime time. As you can see the data rates (audio, video, error correction, etc.) are about the same or less than the lossless audio on a BD or UHD BD.

Netflix list several other countries, selection here.

As you point out, just the audio bitrate from a blu-ray or a 4K disc can equal, or even exceed, that of Netflix's total bitrates and the same will hold true for Amazon and Vudu as their streaming requirements and bitrates mirror those of Netflix.

While revisiting his posts last night not only has he joyfully spoke of the death of discs for over four years now, he has also been promising us that the streaming providers are improving with the goal of obtaining disc quality results and none of this has happened nor has any effort been undertaken to make it happen. His posts are filled with streaming fantasies and anti-disc vitriol.

From 2016:

Originally Posted by alchav21

In the near future I'm sure the BitRate will be up to Blu-ray Standards.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

As you point out, just the audio bitrate from a blu-ray or a 4K disc can equal, or even exceed, that of Netflix's total bitrates and the same will hold true for Amazon and Vudu as their streaming requirements and bitrates mirror those of Netflix.

While revisiting his posts last night not only has he joyfully spoke of the death of discs for over four years now, he has also been promising us that the streaming providers are improving with the goal of obtaining disc quality results and none of this has happened nor has any effort been undertaken to make it happen. His posts are filled with streaming fantasies and anti-disc vitriol.

We live in times where the internet is viewed as endless capacity to handle video streaming no matter the connection speed as marketed by ISPs/telecoms instead of establishing all theses huge server farms for file downloads have their limits as well as slowing rest of the bandwidth.

Using the EU as a example. Was anyone really surprised when the EU demanded that Netflix, Disney +, YouTube slow their streaming by 25%? I been seeing here in the states how content when accessed during different times of the day encounters lag, buffering problems, disconnects because people are more online.

With all that said I actually think we are not ready for the future with higher resolution streaming in mass. This is some of the basis for arguments that online streaming will obsolete physical media. Wake up streaming pundits to reality.

[Flash3000]

Vilya. Your post was brilliant. Seeing that he hasn't replied I guess he's dying 1000 deaths through sheer embarrassment and being completely owned right now. I'm very interested in reading his reply.

[Vilya]

Now to more pleasant matters.

I received my 4K disc of Solo A Star Wars Story today and the rest just shipped! I should have them all by Friday.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Now to more pleasant matters.

I received my 4K disc of Solo A Star Wars Story today and the rest just shipped! I should have them all by Friday.

Pleasant! Solo?

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Now to more pleasant matters.

I received my 4K disc of Solo A Star Wars Story today and the rest just shipped! I should have them all by Friday.

Nice! Mine showed up today. Now I am working on my wife to start the series. Vegas does not have the odds in my favor though.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Pleasant! Solo?

I haven't seen it yet even though I have owned the 3D edition for awhile. I take it this is another one of your favorites among the franchise?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I received my 4K disc of Solo A Star Wars Story today and the rest just shipped! I should have them all by Friday.

Mine is scheduled for Friday as well.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Flash3000

Vilya. Your post was brilliant. Seeing that he hasn't replied I guess he's dying 1000 deaths through sheer embarrassment and being completely owned right now. I'm very interested in reading his reply.

You have to have a thick shell to be on this Thread, but I don't remember you being on any Postings. Vilya is very precise on detail with Postings, and zero's in on detail information. You have to go back and get the context of the message to get the full meaning. I had to go back on some of those messages to get what I was trying to say. I guess I could have been a little more sensitive on some of my messages, but if you read them I tried to defend Digital Streaming. It got so bad at times they tried to discredit me at any means.

Looking at some of my past Postings I guess I have been a little cocky and insensitive. So for the past year I have tried to change and be a little more sensitive. I still believe that Digital Streaming is The Future, and for Rock Solid Quality good Symmetrical Bandwidth with Hard Wired and good equipment is needed. This situation that we are in has put stress in many areas, and we should come out stronger in the end!

[Vilya]

I can't state this any plainer:

You do not get to behave like a troll and then victim when you are called out for it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I haven't seen it yet even though I have owned the 3D edition for awhile. I take it this is another one of your favorites among the franchise?

I’m glad you at least got the 4K version. I would honestly sell the 3D version. It’s horrible and barely worth it. The film was average at best. I personally think Disney has lost the plot with the SW films.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You have to have a thick shell to be on this Thread, but I don't remember you being on any Postings. Vilya is very precise on detail with Postings, and zero's in on detail information. You have to go back and get the context of the message to get the full meaning. I had to go back on some of those messages to get what I was trying to say. I guess I could have been a little more sensitive on some of my messages, but if you read them I tried to defend Digital Streaming. It got so bad at times they tried to discredit me at any means.

Looking at some of my past Postings I guess I have been a little cocking and insensitive. So for the past year I have tried to change and be a little more sensitive. I still believe that Digital Streaming is The Future, and for Rock Solid Quality good Symmetrical Bandwidth with Hard Wired and good equipment is needed. This situation that we are in has put stress in many areas, and we should come out stronger in the end!

Little cocking? What is it with you and Vilya and all this filth lately!