Do you guys ever miss how gaming USED to be?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Oh you mean multinational, multi billion dollar corporations like Microsoft? A company who so severely miscalculated the gaming market and what gamers were willing to accept that the horrible decisions they made for the Xbox One and the terrible PR that followed may very well cost them this generation? Or how about a company like Sony who had the audacity to launch a 600.00 console and just expected gamers to suck it up and buy it anyway?

I don't care how much money a company has, that doesn't make them impervious to misreading and misunderstanding the market and what gamers want.

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Again, at what point did developers decide that gamers didn't want localized multiplayer options anymore? Did they actually take the time to research and see if gamers truly didn't want it anymore or did they just say "hey, we'll include online only, not fool with split screen or LAN support, and people will buy it anyway because what choice do they have?"

Can't you see you give your own answer. Why Did MS reverse some xbone decisions, why did Sony Say they will add some of the MM stuff to the PS4? Maybe for a game things can't be changed as easily but things can change.. If Joe says "I won't buy the xbone because I can't set it up in my room because the screen is 30' from the console that affects sales when Bob says I won't buy the xbone because I don't want to be a hostage to the internet and not be able to play when my connection is down for more than 24h that affects sales, when Bill says I won't buy the PS4 because I want my CDs to play, that also affects sales. When Steel maker says I will buy kill zone and I don't care if it does not have split screen multiplayer that does not affect sales and everyone else says who cares if Steelmaker will ***** about it.

You say what choice do you have? the one to decide what to buy. That is all the choice anyone has. But if people decide to buy something because it is not all that important to them why would the corporations care more than you do?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

I'll take that. I think MS would have been fine; they need to replace their spin doctors, not their market researchers. Anyway, there was a vocal public protest against Xbone at that time. If there is a huge demand for local co-op gaming, where is the backlash against the publishers? It's your comparison, not mine.

It was not just the outcry. MS did their first presentation before E3, Between the first presentation and E3 they announced the gaming thing. MS changed their mind a few days after E3 and pre-order availability. The out-cry was not what made them change their mind but that a lot of people stayed away from pre-ordering and they were getting trounced by Sony.

I also don't think the spin-doctors could do anything. It was just a bad idea. Can you tell me how someone can spin that it is a good thing for me to buy a console and the next time that xbox live is down for a few days (last generation it was down for close to two weeks at some point) to make it sound like a good thing that I won't be able to play the games I purchased? how about not being able to bring my console and games to my friends cottage/cabin because it is stupid for them to pay for high speed internet for a place that might only a handful of days a month? or how it is a good thing that in the future when I want to retro game with this generation games I might not be able to because they will eventually not support the xbone any more.

Now don't get me wrong some people act as if they are lobotomized and can't think beyond a couple of hours at a time and might not realize all the incredibly bad implications the scheme included. But for the rest of the people there is no spinning that would change the facts.

Maybe people buy it anyway, because 99.5% of them don't care about split screens and LAN gaming. Can you not accept that you are the outlier?

I don't think he is the outlier. I just think (like him) most people don't care enough to spend their money in a way that would make a difference.

I think the real purpose of trophies is to keep you playing this game longer, instead of the competitor's game, even if it only delays your purchase of the competitor's game, which eats into profit. It also induces digital purchases.

I don't think it is that (i.e. so that you don't get to play a different game, since that other game could be from the same studio). I think you are over thinking it. Have you never heard anyone say ____ is not worth XX$ because it is too short. It is to make it seam that the game is better /has more to it than what it is there because it eats up more of your time.

[Mobe1969]

Originally Posted by Derb

Speaking of how games used to be... Ditch Trophies & Achievements!

Almost as bad as cheating is playing the game the way it's not intended.

Thing about using cheats in the past was only fun after you finished the game without them. They soo diminished the games replay value fast afterwards.

Oh yeah, I was so glad when they finally bought in the ability to disable trophy notifications on the PS3.

If people like them though, good for them. I personally find them a poorconcept.

I think though that GTAIV highlighted what the stupidity of the trophy mentality did to that game. Eg, prior games, find hidden packages, get a new respawning weapon at your hideouts for each ten. Very useful. GTAIV - shoot 200 pigeons and get a trophy that you can use to compare your e-dick with others online. Very useless

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Now don't get me wrong some people act as if they are lobotomized and can't think beyond a couple of hours at a time and might not realize all the incredibly bad implications the scheme included. But for the rest of the people there is no spinning that would change the facts.

I concede, at least for now. I wager that by the end of the new generation, the console business is pretty much like the originally proposed Xbone. We shall have to wait and see. They really should not have said anything about it. Rather just say you have to buy one to see what it does. That's what Americans like, anyway.

I don't think he is the outlier. I just think (like him) most people don't care enough to spend their money in a way that would make a difference.

You think more than about 5% of gamers who pay retail for their games have a strong interest in split screen gaming? I don't. If you do, then we simply disagree. That's all I mean by outlier. Part of a small minority.

I don't think it is that (i.e. so that you don't get to play a different game, since that other game could be from the same studio). I think you are over thinking it. Have you never heard anyone say ____ is not worth XX$ because it is too short. It is to make it seam that the game is better /has more to it than what it is there because it eats up more of your time.

They do buy DLC for trophies, though, whether it's in-game stuff or add-on content. And at the conception of trophies, there were those who complained vocally when games did not have them. It's a fair bet that a lot of guys would say I'm not buying _____, because it has no trophies. I'll take your point, though. If the game seems longer, it adds perceived value, and keeps you playing this game rather than another one at the same time; it's still about money. Is a trophy any different than, say, a Skill Point in Ratchet and Clank or an Abstergo Challenge in AC4 or Dark Knight Challenges in Batman? Most of them are not. They all serve the same purpose. Just as unlockable difficulties. There is no other purpose to preventing you from playing a game on the hardest difficulty the first time through other than to capture your time.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

I wager that by the end of the new generation, the console business is pretty much like the originally proposed Xbone. We shall have to wait and see.

OT and I won't go further but I am curious, are you saying you think MS will go back and a future FW will make the xbone behave the way they originally said it will work or that the next xbox will use the same thing (and why are you certain that it won't get back the same reaction) or something else.

They really should not have said anything about it. Rather just say you have to buy one to see what it does.

lol and you thought the original PR was bad, they would have been crucified. Plus it would have been much worst. Could you magine the terrible PR when many people are returning their launch day machine and game asking for their money back because it was so fundamentally flawed in design?

You think more than about 5% of gamers who pay retail for their games have a strong interest in split screen gaming? I don't. If you do, then we simply disagree. That's all I mean by outlier. Part of a small minority.

you missed my point. I think more or less every game will at some point be physically with someone else and want to play together and think "too bad _____ did not have real multi-player (be it split screen or not)". I just think more or less (including Steelmaker) no one makes buying decisions based on that so the interest is not there in that way. Which is why the studios don't care as much for it, compare that to on-line MP and why so many games (AC, GOW ....) that are really SP because the main game is about an individuals (and so really should only be SP) story tack on a tenuous on-line MP part to the game.

They do buy DLC for trophies, though, whether it's in-game stuff or add-on content. And at the conception of trophies, there were those who complained vocally when games did not have them. It's a fair bet that a lot of guys would say I'm not buying _____, because it has no trophies. I'll take your point, though. If the game seems longer, it adds perceived value, and keeps you playing this game rather than another one at the same time; it's still about money. Is a trophy any different than, say, a Skill Point in Ratchet and Clank or an Abstergo Challenge in AC4 or Dark Knight Challenges in Batman? Most of them are not. They all serve the same purpose. Just as unlockable difficulties. There is no other purpose to preventing you from playing a game on the hardest difficulty the first time through other than to capture your time.

agree, I did not mean that it was the only thing. I just disagreed that it was about stopping people from playing the competitors game like you said.
I think most of what you said is about making you play more hours and so making the game appear longer and as if there was more work in it than there was. For example, I don't know if you overplayed the original PoP (I am not talking about the sands of time trilogy). But in it if you died the story ended and you had to start over, but you also had 1h to finish the game or Jaffar(?) would kill the princess. If someone would finish the game in his first play through the game would not even be 1h, but you don't know what you are doing and can easily die so you also waste time getting health potions and life extenders and finding the right path. the same here. Trophies don't add much to making the game but because you play more hours it makes it appear there is more to the game. I t is the same thing with timers like in the original PoP or the "finish the game in 4h" trophy in the last PoP game. It is the same with finding hidden items, but I would not put challenges in the same boat since they tend to have some added content.

PS I am not certain about locked difficulties, since someone starting off on too hard a difficulty could get frustrated and so not have a good playing experience. It might not be only about forcing a second play through.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

OT and I won't go further but I am curious, are you saying you think MS will go back and a future FW will make the xbone behave the way they originally said it will work or that the next xbox will use the same thing (and why are you certain that it won't get back the same reaction) or something else.

Through incremental changes in FW and through whatever choices publishers make, yes, I think the final Xbone will be very close to the originally propsed Xbone. I think PS4 will be close to that, too. It's just what I expect. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

lol and you thought the original PR was bad, they would have been crucified. Plus it would have been much worst. Could you magine the terrible PR when many people are returning their launch day machine and game asking for their money back because it was so fundamentally flawed in design?

I was making a tongue in cheek analogy to other things. I won't expound without risking discipline. You will know what I mean, if you are a gainfully employed American.

you missed my point.

Maybe I just can't see it. Among my peers locally, I know of no other console gamer. I know some who are 20 years younger, but honestly, they don't seem interested in gaming with me. Go figure. The interest in the tacked on MP games confuses me. I do not understand the interest, whether it's Uncharted, Mass Effect, Assassins Creed, The Last of Us, Bioshock, Batman, you name it. There are too many good games where MP online is designed into the actual main game. If MP online gaming was a big interest of mine, I would definitely want to be playing those games. But as long as they make trophies for the those tacked on MP games, gamers will be grinding away to level 1000, no matter how good it is. Hell, I've done it.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

Among my peers locally, I know of no other console gamer. I know some who are 20 years younger, but honestly, they don't seem interested in gaming with me. Go figure.

you must live in a sad world. I know a few 40+ year olds that play video games, and we do get together and play sometimes. Obviously as we all age there is a lot less time for gaming, but that is just a part of life.

. But as long as they make trophies for the those tacked on MP games, gamers will be grinding away to level 1000, no matter how good it is. Hell, I've done it.

I am too old to waste time on things that do not interest me. Probably why I also don't have that many platinum's.

[jsteinhauer]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

you must live in a sad world.

No, not really. But those my age in my profession tend to have a negative attitude toward videogames, at least around here. I'm okay with that. In truth, I don't really fit in around here, but for a number of really good reasons, I'm not leaving unless I have to.

Local togetherness gaming on PS4 is not practical you know. DS4 runs out of juice to fast. You'd have to four DS4's, with two charging all the time.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by jsteinhauer

No, not really. But those my age in my profession tend to have a negative attitude toward videogames, at least around here. I'm okay with that. In truth, I don't really fit in around here, but for a number of really good reasons, I'm not leaving unless I have to.

I did not tell you to leave that place (especially the way jobs are these gays), I just find it is sad if you "don't really fit in around here". It was not meant as a jab or anything just empathy.

Local togetherness gaming on PS4 is not practical you know. DS4 runs out of juice to fast. You'd have to four DS4's, with two charging all the time.

Don't know, it is short especially compared to the PS3 but I would guess it lasts 8-10 hours, so I don't see an issue for something like this. Make sure it is charged before every one gets there and just play, I don't remember the last time I played for that long straight even when being by myself let alone with guests.

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by buck135

Like the others have said, The Last Of Us is gaming at it's absolute best...

Which sadly I'll never get to play as there's no PC version

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Which sadly I'll never get to play as there's no PC version

You make it sound like you have zero choice in the matter.

There is plenty of amazing content on the PS3. You won't regret the purchase price if you want to play some amazing games not available on PC.

[slick1ru2]

Anyone every play Conflict: The Middle East Simulator? You are the premier of Israel. Its turn based and you can declare wars, set up coalitions, have your spies overtop governments etc.. Pretty fun! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflic...ical_Simulator

[LegacyCosts]

I do. In NBA 2k you aren't even allowed to play couch coop in a gm/association mode. Everything is about DLC/patches and incomplete games. I used to dream of online gaming back in the day but now we have it and I can't even go online with my friend and play online if he is in my apartment with me. He'd have to drive home to do so

[slick1ru2]

Found a website where you can download old games. http://www.old-games.com/

[MikeCL]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Found a website where you can download old games. http://www.old-games.com/

Wow lol they have Police Quest I used to play that back in 1995 on a MS-DOS system! a few other games bring back some memories.

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

You make it sound like you have zero choice in the matter.

There is plenty of amazing content on the PS3. You won't regret the purchase price if you want to play some amazing games not available on PC.

Nope. Tried consoles....hate them.

Give me a WASD keyboard and a mouse.

[CoMaToast]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Nope. Tried consoles....hate them.

Give me a WASD keyboard and a mouse.

wtf is a WASD

[Pondosinatra]

Originally Posted by CoMaToast

wtf is a WASD

Look at a keyboard

Ever since Doom - FPS games have pretty much standardized on that layout - W is up, A is left, D is right etc. There's even specially made gaming keyboards based on that layout.

[Pondosinatra]

Ha! I just finished Zork!

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Pondosinatra

Nope. Tried consoles....hate them.

Give me a WASD keyboard and a mouse.

Well I guess you'll just miss out on damn meat every fantastic gaming experience of the past few decades then.