Snake in the Eagle's Shadow (1978) / Drunken Master (1978) (Limited Edition)

[Markgway]

Originally Posted by Irongod2112

Got to go now, got me a hot date with some Pirates!!

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Irongod2112

Wow even worse than I predicted... see the 3rd post in this thread.

I bet the subtitles are dub-titles just like the Sony DVD.

Got to go now, got me a hot date with some Pirates!!

The UK release is region-free and fixed. There is no defense of piracy here.

[Lorenzol]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

The UK release is region-free and fixed. There is no defense of piracy here.

Thank you for letting me know. I ordered the Eureka version of DM being Region Free. I wanted the complete Cantonese audio so that's a deal breaker for the TT release and even though I want Snake in the Eagle's Shadow, I'm hoping for a similar Eureka Region Free release too.

[Shingster]

I think it's worth pointing out again in this thread that IF Eureka end up releasing Snake in the Eagle's Shadow then they will have to heavily censor the Cat vs Cobra fight sequence as per Britiish laws against depictions of real animal cruelty.

[whiteberry]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

The UK release is region-free and fixed. There is no defense of piracy here.

But doesn't have the original English dub...easy pass.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Shingster

I think it's worth pointing out again in this thread that IF Eureka end up releasing Snake in the Eagle's Shadow then they will have to heavily censor the Cat vs Cobra fight sequence as per Britiish laws against depictions of real animal cruelty.

Which I'd personally file under "not really a big deal"

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by whiteberry

But doesn't have the original English dub...easy pass.

This in a nutshell sums up why any boutique label has to be a little crazy to even contemplate distributing HK classics. The fanbase is full of jackasses with their checklists just aching to come up with a reason to avoid any release. I'm sure even if Eureka could have legally included the original English dub the likes of whiteberry would just come up with some other reason to download their bootlegs. Probably the price, and if the price was low enough they'd whine about the packaging or something else. But hey let's continue whining about why distributors aren't really prioritising HK cinema and continue to promote bootlegs in threads when the distributors inevitably fail to live up to the impossible standards of the "fans".

Someone mentioned earlier that Arrow are more interested in Japan than HK judging by their current and upcoming lineup, maybe that's because trying to satisfy HK film fans is like pissing into the wind? First they've got to deal with the HK companies who give them crappy deals and even crappier materials, then they've got to navigate the rights issues of old recordings and finally they've got to satisfy probably the most selfish, self-centred, demanding and technically ignorant fanbase in existence. I can only assume companies do it because casual consumers still like to pick up the odd kung fu film now and then.

[drees5761]

Well said Shingster. Some people just look for something to complain about on any release, some justified , most not. But HK fans seem to be bad in that respect. Those that don't buy the UK version are missing out on a great release and it will probably never look any better. As far as the TT versions go, i may purchase just for Snake in the Eagles Shadow but tempted to wait and see if Eureka release it as Drunken Master sold very well from what i hear.

[Magic Monkey]

Originally Posted by drees5761

..but tempted to wait and see if Eureka release it as Drunken Master sold very well from what i hear.

Thanks. That's very good news and gives hope to see SITES from Eureka. I'll pass on this very poor TT release, heck, it _might_ even have dubtitles, that's how bad this release looks like. There's bound to be somebody who releases SITES later, fortunately I'm in no hurry to have HD version of SITES.

[grim_tales]

I'm with you, perhaps there'll be an HD release of SITES later, or Eureka could release it one day.

[Irongod2112]

Shingster knows nothing about fans of Hong Kong Cinema! We don't just buy bootlegs & complain that there are no good legit releases... that's just crazy talk!!

All we want is a quality true HD picture, original mono audio not downmixes of revisioned 7.1 audio with new sound effects!!

Add quality English subtitles. Throw in the classic English dub & a few extras and you got a sale.

These are not unreasonable requests and if the companies reached out to the fans for help we would gladly help them.

As was the case for the excellent new 4k Bruce Lee releases that Shout Factory just released with the help of a fellow member of this very forum!!

Thanks OldPangYau!

I bought all 4 of those releases day 1 btw...

Masters of Cinema's Drunken Master was a step in the right direction but still fell short for fans that love that classic dub. For those that don't care about that dub it's a great release.

88 Films have been releasing Shaw Brothers films with original audio & classic English dubs & subtitles and a few hiccups aside they have been putting out quality product
and I have bought every title that I'm interested in so far.

Bottom line if a company does their homework reaches out to fans for help and puts out a quality product we will buy them... it's that simple!

Also remember Hong Kong Cinema is much more than Kung Fu Films and deserve respect just like any other classic film being released!

[Magic Monkey]

Originally Posted by Irongod2112

These are not unreasonable requests and if the companies reached out to the fans for help we would gladly help them.
...
Masters of Cinema's Drunken Master was a step in the right direction but still fell short for fans that love that classic dub. For those that don't care about that dub it's a great release.
...
Bottom line if a company does their homework reaches out to fans for help and puts out a quality product we will buy them... it's that simple!

What a load of BS. You still fail to understand the reasons why some material isn't included. It can be read from between the lines. Your posts, this and earlier, clearly gives out the expression that you think that getting hold of some material is the only problem ("the old dub was in X DVD release, there you can get it.."). Exactly how you could have helped Eureka to obtain a license to the old Eng dub? Before the Sony stipulated deadline of releasing the product? Tell us.

[Irongod2112]

Originally Posted by Magic Monkey

What a load of BS. You still fail to understand the reasons why some material isn't included. It can be read from between the lines. Your posts, this and earlier, clearly gives out the expression that you think that getting hold of some material is the only problem ("the old dub was in X DVD release, there you can get it.."). Exactly how you could have helped Eureka to obtain a license to the old Eng dub? Before the Sony stipulated deadline of releasing the product? Tell us.

Never said I could get them a license, seriously you guys are just looking to argue for no good reason. But maybe a fan could have helped them.

I'm not knocking Masters of Cinema but maybe if they talked to the fans earlier maybe they would have had more time to license it. Just a theory... may or may not be true.

They did try and I totally appreciate that they did!

AGAIN I will say it's a good release but if you grew up with that old English dub it may not be the release for someone that loves that version of the movie.

But to attack me for trying to raise awareness of how these films should be treated makes no sense!

[Magic Monkey]

Originally Posted by Irongod2112

But to attack me for trying to raise awareness of how these films should be treated makes no sense!

That would be fine, but as long as you advocate & praise illegal releases and/or pirates, I, and probably few more, are going to be vocal.

You appreciate Eureka for trying the best with the DM release, yet you cancelled your pre-order and said that you are happy with your HKR custom Blu-ray.

It's like Shingster wrote, the new excuses and arguments just sprout like mushrooms when raining.

[Irongod2112]

Dude you talk more about HKR and bootlegs way more than I have! Lol

Really the best way to beat the bootlegs is doing what Frank Zappa did, he released them himself.

Or in this case put out a product that makes the boot unnecessary.

But until that day comes the boots will be there and people will buy them or download, plain & simple.

For the record I did buy A Touch of Zen & Dragon Inn from MOC and both are excellent releases!

I did cancel my Master of Cinema pre-order of DM but I had already bought the expensive Japanese bluray set much earlier.

I have also bought Drunken Master on VHS - Laserdisc - plus multiple DVDs throughout the years!! So I'm a bit burnt out buying this movie over & over again.

I used to buy Hong Kong laserdiscs for $100 to $200 for a single title (some didn't even have English subtitles) so I definitely have no problem with buying a title if I choose it's right for me.

Hell I will probably pick up the Master Of Cinema release down the road.

In the end I just want the companies to respect Hong Kong films & treat them with loving care!!

[Keung]

Started working on a cover for this. I'll post the finished version for anyone that wants it (all of you by the sounds of it ) when it's done.

[Shingster]

Originally Posted by Irongod2112

Shingster knows nothing about fans of Hong Kong Cinema! We don't just buy bootlegs & complain that there are no good legit releases... that's just crazy talk!!

All we want is a quality true HD picture, original mono audio not downmixes of revisioned 7.1 audio with new sound effects!!

Add quality English subtitles. Throw in the classic English dub & a few extras and you got a sale.

These are not unreasonable requests and if the companies reached out to the fans for help we would gladly help them.

It sounds reasonable, but you're forgetting to point out that these are not requests, they are demands. That's what grinds my gears about "fans" like you, you feel like these companies should satisfy your every whim and when they don't, or they can't for legal reasons (like Eureka), you go out and actively promote illegal releases. You act like you are entitled to pristine 1080p presentations of your favourite films, when you are not entitled to anything other than the decision to purchase or not.

Here's something radical I'll propose: If, like some posters in this thread have stated, there isn't a HD presentation that fails to live up to the criteria of english subtitles, or original mono audio, or classic English dub in original format, or all of these things in one package, then purchase the film on DVD. People come into this thread and say "hey, if it was available legally on BD with subs I'd buy it" I understand that frustration, but nowadays there's a DVD out there with subs for probably 90% of the classics.

For the record I own bootleg copies of asian films myself and will never judge a person for downloading films or purchasing bootlegs - so loing as they don't gatecrash dedicated release threads to gloat about it - but we the consumer are not entitled to HD presentations of films. A company has paid probably a large chunk of money to scan, remaster and then release a HK classic on BD. Consumers are not entitled to simply take that for free, just like HKR are not entitled to cherry pick the best aspects of multiple releases and release them to the fans - I understand why they do it and I feel their intentions are honourable and of great benefits to we the fans, and I'm grateful for their efforts, but I know that I am not entitled to download/purchase their releases. It's stealing something that a company has paid a lot of money on. A minor crime for certain (especially if it's a big distributor like Sony), but it is what it is.

So let's get round to the current legal release of Drunken Master:

- Good 1080p presentation of the film? Check.
- Original Cantonese mono with no English inserts? Check.
- English subtitles offering adequate translation? Check.
- Original English dub? Fail.
- Alternative dub that's newer but still well-established by its use on previous releases? Check.
- Solid selection of extras? Check.

Eureka listened to the fans when they wanted original cantonese mono, they listened to the fans when they were worried they would provide dubtitles, they already knew the fans wanted the original English dub and intended to provide this from the very start, promoting its inclusion right up until a few weeks before the release. This is NOT a case of a distributor not giving a crap, this is NOT a case of a distributor needing to work with fans like OldPangYau to make sure everything is included, they ran into a legal brick wall due to rights issues (just like they'll run into a legal brick wall if they want to release SITES uncut). Now, Irongod you are just a simple fan with a simple list of conditions that are simple to meet, so why did you throw your toys out of the pram and promote the bootleg release when Eureka provided a reasonable explanation for their failure to meet one of your criteria?

Yeah, that's right. Because we're entitled to it!

[ol_Dut]

Finally got around to pre-ordering this. I'm very excited to see these in HD, my old DVDs look a bit dodgy. This still feels like an odd choice for TT, but who am I to complain about more Jackie Chan on blu-ray?!

[Irongod2112]

Gonna post one more time & I'm done with this thread.

I never said I'm entitled to anything.

Just like Masters of Cinema is not entitled to my purchase if I feel their release is just not right for me.

That said...

I have repeatedly said the Masters Of Cinema blu is a great release if you don't care about the Classic English dub! Especially compared to this Twilight Time travesty!!

I did mention the HKR release once or twice, but it's Magic Monkey and others that keep bringing it up!

I even mentioned I wasn't safisfied with the HKR version & had to make my own custom of that custom!!

So I'm more than a bit passionate about this movie & maybe it comes off as entitlement.

Now who has the rights to Drunken Master in Germany or France?

Maybe it's not too late to get a perfect legit edition!

[Magic Monkey]

Originally Posted by Irongod2112

I did mention the HKR release once or twice, but it's Magic Monkey and others that keep bringing it up!

Well, that's pretty much the beef in this heated conversation, there's no need to shrug your shoulders like you're not understanding what's going on. It's the combination of lambasting legit companies, telling of not buying the legit releases while getting/keeping illegal product, advocating and praising the pirates and piracy that's irked few members here. And yeah, making all kinds of silly excuses to justify the "need and entitlement to have some entertainment material, no matter by what means".

EDIT: To all, be critics, that's fine, and pirate all you like, but please stop going on about the pirates and their "products" publicly; how those people are so great "fans/preservationists/[enter BS here]" and how their illegal "products" are made with loving care and blahblablah.. Thank you.