Dog Soldiers 4K UHD (Second Sight)

[A Tortured Duckling]

Originally Posted by waxHead

After reading your response about the SF version, I'm glad I held off. It had been in my wishlist for a long time but I couldn't bring myself to buy it. You're echoing my feelings about it, I can't wait to watch the SS 4K... so maybe when it arrives and again in October

It's an infinitely rewatchable film, imo. Loveable character, good humor, a ton of heart and lovely effects.

Are you aware of the book Sausages: The Making of Dog Soldiers by Janine Pipe? If not, you should give this video a watch. She's a wonderfully nerdy author and a super fan of the film. I bought the book based solely on this video because she is just so damn in love with the movie.

Sausages: The Making of Dog Soldiers released today Friday 13th May - YouTube

Here's a link to the paperback at Amazon. There's a hardcover, too.

Originally Posted by waxHead

The Descent from SS in 4K? Just take my money. Take it on Day 0. If they'd even announce that they're THINKING about releasing it, I'll contribute to the effort. It's easily one of my favorite horror films, the cave interior filming is incredible.

You and I, both. I am glad the BD for this one isn't even half as bad as the one for Dog Soldiers, so I do watch The Descent every now and then. Still, I feel that that one would benefit from UHD and HDR especially well. As long as it comes with the original ending, of course.

If you'd like a nice release for that one you should take a look at these South Korean sets. They come with the same disc that's currently available but it's in a rather attractive package. Both are available from South Korean sellers on ebay.

Originally Posted by waxHead

So glad to read that! It's pricey but a worthy splurge for one of the best animated films ever released. I need to watch it again, that 192kHz soundtrack is an experience unlike any other. And I'm using a soundbar. Granted, a JBL 9.1, but still a soundbar. It's like living through those scenes, just incredible.

For real, it's spectacular.

[waxHead]

Originally Posted by A Tortured Duckling

It's an infinitely rewatchable film, imo. Loveable character, good humor, a ton of heart and lovely effects.

Are you aware of the book Sausages: The Making of Dog Soldiers by Janine Pipe? If not, you should give this video a watch. She's a wonderfully nerdy author and a super fan of the film. I bought the book based solely on this video because she is just so damn in love with the movie.

[Show spoiler]

Sausages: The Making of Dog Soldiers released today Friday 13th May - YouTube

Here's a link to the paperback at Amazon. There's a hardcover, too.

I had no idea that existed, thank you for the recommendations! I'll hold off watching the video until after I've seen Dog Soldiers for the first time, don't want to spoil anything

You and I, both. I am glad the BD for this one isn't even half as bad as the one for Dog Soldiers, so I do watch The Descent every now and then. Still, I feel that that one would benefit from UHD and HDR especially well. As long as it comes with the original ending, of course.

If you'd like a nice release for that one you should take a look at these South Korean sets. They come with the same disc that's currently available but it's in a rather attractive package. Both are available from South Korean sellers on ebay.

Those both look great, thanks again for the recommendations. Tempting as they are, I'm hoping a 4K release is on the horizon with both the original/international and US endings. I currently own two different releases of The Descent (US AVC and Australian Icon) and the AUS Icon release of The Descent 2:



I remember all of these having decent transfers though it's been a while since I watched any of them. They may go on the re-watch pile for October

Plus... need more space for these LEs! I love the larger editions but I have such limited space that I have to be very picky about what I upgrade. I wish SS had released Drive in a small LE format, went with the standard 4K because of that.

[ste71]

Watching this now...another winner from Second Sight.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

[Show spoiler]Still, you’ve been okay with putting digitally shot movies *plus* features onto UHD66 discs before, I’m guessing this needed the extra bits for handling all that gorgeous 16mm grain so the encode would’ve maxed out a 66.

———————

Anyhoo, got my LE today and yet again it’s another SS LE with lots of fingerprints on the discs, and I’m not exaggerating. One of the discs had half the playing surface slathered with them.

VERY glad to discover that the botched mixing of the training scene from the Koch version has been fixed, the music now cuts out as it should when matey captures Coop.

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Has the second audio glitch been fixed as well? Asking since you explicitely only mentioned this one. Which was also the way more prominent one IMO, but still.

What exactly is "the second audio glitch"? I'm nervous about ordering this.

Chris

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

What exactly is "the second audio glitch"? I'm nervous about ordering this.

Chris

The very one you already referenced here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=133. The audio glitch Geoff D was talking about is a different one found on the German Koch 4K.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

The very one you already referenced here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=133. The audio glitch Geoff D was talking about is a different one found on the German Koch 4K.

So the pop is the other glitch? Okay cool! Geoff already said that was absent from the Second Sight master so I guess this one is a completely safe buy

Chris

[andreasy969]

Well, no, I'm not talking about a pop.

There was the one glitch, I reported first here back then, which Geoff confirmed not being present on the SS. Good. But someone else did report another issue before I did back then:

This one: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=201

[Filmmaker]

There’s the Koch glitch which Geoff just confirmed is fixed. Then, there’s the pop found at around 28 minutes in in the Shout release. If Geoff also confirmed that’s gone, I missed it.

[andreasy969]

Just for the record: The Koch had two audio glitches. Geoff confirmed one being fixed on the Shout. Then there is a new pop issue also not being present on the SS. Good.

But I'd like to know about the first audio issue of the Koch. Because it's related to the second audio issue of the Koch, which SS only fixed after Geoff's comment. And I hope they fixed the other one as well.

I don't have mine yet and would check myself otherwise.

tl/tr: 2/3 issues have been confirmed not being present on the SS. I'm asking about the pending one.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Just for the record: The Koch had two audio glitches. Geoff confirmed one being fixed on the Shout. Then there is a new pop issue also not being present on the SS. Good.

But I'd like to know about the first audio issue of the Koch. Because it's related to the second audio issue of the Koch, which SS only fixed after Geoff's comment. And I hope they fixed the other one as well.

I don't have mine yet and would check myself otherwise.

tl/tr: 2/3 issues have been confirmed not being present on the SS. I'm asking about the pending one.

So be clear as possible, andreasy696 is talking about this audio error from the German UHD:

"Anyone noticed at 7:46 in SF edition you can clearly hear "they're up" which is also in the subtitles,but in the german one, the line is inaudible due to a loop of the helicopter sound at 7:45,like they used the same audio queue twice,and thus deleted the line from the audio track.. Anyone else noticed if this happens elsewhere in the german bd where dialogue is inuadible due to overlap?"

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=201

Chris

[A Tortured Duckling]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

If Geoff also confirmed that’s gone, I missed it.

He did, yep.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As I said, no pops on the audio on the versions supplied to me.

[minister_x]

I've compared the German UHD against the UK UHD, to try and see if the audio error andreasy969 is referring to is present. Here is what I see:

- the German UHD indeed seems looped to helicopter, no dialogue at all, but English subtitles state 'They're "P-' (typo copied verbatim...)
- the UK UHD does not seem looped, the dialogue is not 100% clear - sounds more like "see up" or "C up" ("C" might make more sense in context? - has been well over a decade since I last saw the film), but there are no subtitles present for that brief snippet of dialogue

------

In terms of how the releases look, I now understand why VLC is useless for generating screencaps of UHDs - I'm guessing it drops the HDR layer entirely when it generates them. Even so, I managed to get something approximating what I see between the two versions by doing a screendump whilst running VLC on both releases. Hopefully this will work / perhaps this will give people a rough idea of the differences - obviously this is a (very) poor man's attempt, to be taken with a chunk of salt, if it's even of any use at all. (Apologies, I have not yet looked into porting MPC-HC to my Mac.) Regardless of whether or not it works, the UK one is clearly superior to my eyes.

UK:

[Show spoiler]

German:

[Show spoiler]

EDIT: So I'm not sure how well this will work at all - the UK one looks a whole lot darker on my phone than my laptop. Oh well, will have to wait for someone competent at generating screencaps!

------

Lastly, here's a BDInfo from the UK disc: (I did the entire disc, but this is just the film)

[Show spoiler]

                                                                  Total     Video                                               
Title         Codec     Length    Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate   Bitrate   Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----         ------    -------   --------------  --------------  -------   -------   ------------------                        ---------------------
00000.MPLS    HEVC      1:45:00   78,394,089,792  95,628,077,653  99.54     88.57     DTS-HD Master 5.1 4131Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DTS-HD Master 2.0 1762Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)

DISC INFO:

Disc Label:     DOG SOLDIERS 4K UHD
Disc Size:      95,628,077,653 bytes
Protection:     AACS2
Extras:         Ultra HD
BDInfo:         0.7.5.8-X

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00000.MPLS
Length:                 1:45:00.794 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   78,394,089,792 bytes
Total Bitrate:          99.54 Mbps

(*) Indicates included stream hidden by this playlist.

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-H HEVC Video       88575 kbps          2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR10 / BT.2020
* MPEG-H HEVC Video     76 kbps (0.09%)     1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         4131 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 4131 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 768 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         1762 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 1762 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 768 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             English         112 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps / DN -30dB
Dolby Digital Audio             English         112 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps / DN -30dB
Dolby Digital Audio             English         112 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps / DN -30dB

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         38.575 kbps

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by minister_x

I've compared the German UHD against the UK UHD, to try and see if the audio error andreasy969 is referring to is present. Here is what I see:

- the German UHD indeed seems looped to helicopter, no dialogue at all, but English subtitles state 'They're "P-' (typo copied verbatim...)
- the UK UHD does not seem looped, the dialogue is not 100% clear - sounds more like "see up" or "C up" ("C" might make more sense in context? - has been well over a decade since I last saw the film), but there are no subtitles present for that brief snippet of dialogue

[Show spoiler]

------

In terms of how the releases look, I now understand why VLC is useless for generating screencaps of UHDs - I'm guessing it drops the HDR layer entirely when it generates them. Even so, I managed to get something approximating what I see between the two versions by doing a screendump whilst running VLC on both releases. Hopefully this will work / perhaps this will give people a rough idea of the differences - obviously this is a (very) poor man's attempt, to be taken with a chunk of salt, if it's even of any use at all. (Apologies, I have not yet looked into porting MPC-HC to my Mac.) Regardless of whether or not it works, the UK one is clearly superior to my eyes.

UK:

[Show spoiler]

German:

[Show spoiler]

EDIT: So I'm not sure how well this will work at all - the UK one looks a whole lot darker on my phone than my laptop. Oh well, will have to wait for someone competent at generating screencaps!

------

Lastly, here's a BDInfo from the UK disc: (I did the entire disc, but this is just the film)

                                                                  Total     Video                                               
Title         Codec     Length    Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate   Bitrate   Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----         ------    -------   --------------  --------------  -------   -------   ------------------                        ---------------------
00000.MPLS    HEVC      1:45:00   78,394,089,792  95,628,077,653  99.54     88.57     DTS-HD Master 5.1 4131Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DTS-HD Master 2.0 1762Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)

DISC INFO:

Disc Label:     DOG SOLDIERS 4K UHD
Disc Size:      95,628,077,653 bytes
Protection:     AACS2
Extras:         Ultra HD
BDInfo:         0.7.5.8-X

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00000.MPLS
Length:                 1:45:00.794 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   78,394,089,792 bytes
Total Bitrate:          99.54 Mbps

(*) Indicates included stream hidden by this playlist.

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-H HEVC Video       88575 kbps          2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR10 / BT.2020
* MPEG-H HEVC Video     76 kbps (0.09%)     1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         4131 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 4131 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 768 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         1762 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 1762 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 768 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             English         112 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps / DN -30dB
Dolby Digital Audio             English         112 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps / DN -30dB
Dolby Digital Audio             English         112 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps / DN -30dB

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         38.575 kbps

Sounds like the Second Sight soundtrack is fully correct, then. I checked my old DVD copy and the line of dialogue is present there, but it's also not entirely clear what he's saying to me either. Said DVD only has a foreign subtitle track, as well, so it was no help in trying to decipher it.

Chris

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

So be clear as possible, andreasy696 is talking about this audio error from the German UHD:

"Anyone noticed at 7:46 in SF edition you can clearly hear "they're up" which is also in the subtitles,but in the german one, the line is inaudible due to a loop of the helicopter sound at 7:45,like they used the same audio queue twice,and thus deleted the line from the audio track.. Anyone else noticed if this happens elsewhere in the german bd where dialogue is inuadible due to overlap?"

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=201

Chris

Forgot about that one when I checked the UHD yesterday! But I also flagged this up when I looked at the transfers, I remembered Andreas talking about it and made sure to check it. And yep, on the audio supplied it had that weird looped helicopter sound which covered up Sean Pertwee's line. From what minister x is saying then that's been fixed too. Yay!

[andreasy969]

Thanks for flagging both @Geoff and for checking @minister_x!

[Pieter V]

Disc Size: 95,607,576,837 bytes
Protection: AACS2
Extras: Ultra HD
BDInfo: 0.7.5.9

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name: 00000.MPLS
Length: 1:45:00.794 (h:m:s.ms)
Size: 78,394,097,664 bytes
Total Bitrate: 99.54 Mbps

(*) Indicates included stream hidden by this playlist.

VIDEO:

Codec Bitrate Description
----- ------- -----------
MPEG-H HEVC Video 88576 kbps 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / 1000nits / HDR10 / BT.2020
* MPEG-H HEVC Video 76 kbps (0.09%) 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 @ Level 5.1 @ High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / 1000nits / Dolby Vision MEL / BT.2020

AUDIO:

Codec Language Bitrate Description
----- -------- ------- -----------
DTS-HD Master Audio English 4131 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 4131 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 768 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS-HD Master Audio English 1762 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 1762 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 2.0 / 48 kHz / 768 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio English 112 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio English 112 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio English 112 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 112 kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec Language Bitrate Description
----- -------- ------- -----------
Presentation Graphics English 38.575 kbps

[andreasy969]

Also had mine in the mail today and can also confirm both being fixed. And I think he actually says "They up." (?) - I'm not hearing a 're at any rate. Or he says something else entirely. Whatever he says, it's there now.

[danman227460]

Originally Posted by Pieter V

Based on that info, does that mean the Shout would be inferior due to the disc size or is there some other magic that could make Shout on the same level even on a 66 GB?

[minister_x]

Originally Posted by danman227460

Based on that info, does that mean the Shout would be inferior due to the disc size or is there some other magic that could make Shout on the same level even on a 66 GB?

Not necessarily - depends who's encoded it. David M confirmed earlier that a BD-66 could have been used:

Originally Posted by David M

Yes. But without the bonus features, it would have been fine on a 66.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by danman227460

Based on that info, does that mean the Shout would be inferior due to the disc size or is there some other magic that could make Shout on the same level even on a 66 GB?

Yes, going by the numbers, it will be inferior. Because that size (not talking about the Disc size mind you) simply won't fit onto a BD-66 - the movie alone takes up more space here (on the SS disc) than what fits onto a BD-66.

Even if both were FiM I'd therefore pick the SS. Again, going by the numbers.