The Shining (1980)

[rroeder]

Interesting never even thought of those last two. I have always thought it was Danny while influenced by the 2 girls cause they wanted Jack out so he could murder Danny and he could be with them forever and ever and ever

[clifford finch]

Originally Posted by rroeder

Yes, plus to me the alcoholic element should not be over played cause it just undermines the true evil-the haunted hotel

I have not really read thru this thread much just visit on occasion cause I love this movie, but what is the consensus on who unlocks the pantry door for Jack? I realize it's the caretaker in the movie but are we supposed to believe a ghost or Jack's imaginary character unlocks it??

I have always felt Jacks' alcoholism played very well with the evil entities aspect of the Overlook, I think it was the precise vulnerability the evil needed to push Jack over the edge.

[bobbyh64]

Why couldn’t a ghost have unlocked the door? Wasn’t it the ghost woman who hurt Danny’s neck?

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Why couldn’t a ghost have unlocked the door? Wasn’t it the ghost woman who hurt Danny’s neck?

Not necessarily

[rroeder]

Yeah I've always assumed Jack did it

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Why couldn’t a ghost have unlocked the door? Wasn’t it the ghost woman who hurt Danny’s neck?

Depends on the theory you follow:

(a) Ghosts are real: Yes, ghost woman could have hurt Danny's neck and Delbert Grady could have opened door. Also, remember what caused Danny to go into room 237 - a ball rolls up to Danny's trucks from the direction of room 237 as he plays with them on the carpet. Who rolled the ball towards Danny? Under this theory, the ghost woman.

(b) Ghosts aren't real: Under this theory, Jack did it because the ghosts aren't "real". Every time Jack sees a ghost, the ghost is between Jack and a mirror. Delbert Grady = between Jack and restroom mirror. Old woman = between Jack and bathroom mirror. Lloyd = between Jack and bar mirror. Under, this Danny opened the door or some other non-ghost cause.

I will say this though - if Jack did do it, he must have done the following

(1) gone to room
(2) rolled ball towards Danny, luring him into the room
(3) once Danny comes into room, grab his neck
(4) go back down to lounge
(5) fall asleep
(6) have nightmare about killing Wendy and Danny, during which Wendy wakes him up and Danny walks into lounge with bruise

Seems like a lot of work to just hurt Danny - why not just grab his neck and hurt him? I suppose he's not hurting him, it's the ghost woman acting through Jack's body that's doing it. If it was Jack alone doing it, he'd just grab him and hurt him.

But another reason the "Jack did it" theory may not make sense is Jack going back to room 237 to investigate after Danny is hurt. Jack walks into room 237 and bathroom as if he's never been there before. He seems as spooked about the room as Danny is. Not really the sign of someone who just used the room to hurt his son.

[rroeder]

I'm more in the ghosts are real not in their heads camp, but they can't do physical things

Maybe Jack was in room and rolled the ball?

[eiknarf]

Danny most likely got strangled for waking his father up. Let's recap:
In the lobby Danny asks his mother if he can go get his fire engine from his bedroom. His Mother makes him promise not to wake Jack up, but when Danny enters the apartment he finds his dad sitting on the bed, looking tired and miserable. Jack gestures for Danny to sit on his knee and Danny approaches with a look of hesitant obedience. An odd conversation then takes place that starts off like a perfectly normal expression of fatherly love, but then Jack makes his weird comment about staying in the hotel*“forever and ever”, just as the twins had. Danny then expresses fear of Jack and asks for assurance. Jack reassures Danny that he would never hurt him and the scene ends abruptly with a sudden jolt in the musical score. That's when he got choked out like he's in the UFC. We know Jack is a dick dad

[TylerDurden389]

This has been my interpretation of the film since first seeing it at 14. Full disclosure: Yankee here. I've always watched the US cut, only saw the Euro cut for the first time about 2 weeks ago. Here it is:

Jack and Wendy both have a special gift. They are the "carriers" of the 'shining' gene, but cannot use its powers (look at it from a parent-to-child gene perspective). By having a child, said child has the gift. Jack, unlike Wendy, however, is more influenced by the hotel's powers and its ghosts not only from a genetic level, but the alcohol (as well as his past usage), which lowers his inhibitions, makes him more susceptible to hotel's powers. Wendy's powers only unlock at the very end, as the influence from the hotel and ghosts becomes stronger. I have never once questioned how Jack escaped the pantry. The ghost of Grady did it, as we heard his voice on the other side of the door. As for Danny, same thing. The extent of his powers allowed him to see what horrors awaited, and by being there only made his visions all the more clearer and frequent.

Not saying my interpretation is correct. I love all the different ways this movie is analyzed. This is the story I choose to run with.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Danny most likely got strangled for waking his father up. Let's recap:
In the lobby Danny asks his mother if he can go get his fire engine from his bedroom. His Mother makes him promise not to wake Jack up, but when Danny enters the apartment he finds his dad sitting on the bed, looking tired and miserable. Jack gestures for Danny to sit on his knee and Danny approaches with a look of hesitant obedience. An odd conversation then takes place that starts off like a perfectly normal expression of fatherly love, but then Jack makes his weird comment about staying in the hotel*“forever and ever”, just as the twins had. Danny then expresses fear of Jack and asks for assurance. Jack reassures Danny that he would never hurt him and the scene ends abruptly with a sudden jolt in the musical score. That's when he got choked out like he's in the UFC. We know Jack is a dick dad

Stanley Kubrick. The Shining (1980) - YouTube

So do you mean Jack choked Danny while he was sitting on his lap? Except after that scene we see Danny happily playing with his trucks, when the ball rolls up to him from room 237 and he gets up and walks towards it, after which we cut to the lounge with Danny all silent and sucking his thumb after being choked. His demeanor doesn't change until after the ball rolling scene outside room 237.


This movie is so sick. Now I know what people mean when they say "don't try to figure it out - you'll just end up in a dead end like in the hedge maze"

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Stanley Kubrick. The Shining (1980) - YouTube

So do you mean Jack choked Danny while he was sitting on his lap? Except after that scene we see Danny happily playing with his trucks, when the ball rolls up to him from room 237 and he gets up and walks towards it, after which we cut to the lounge with Danny all silent and sucking his thumb after being choked. His demeanor doesn't change until after the ball rolling scene outside room 237.


This movie is so sick

Oh good call

[MifuneFan]

Nah, the witch did it

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Stanley Kubrick. The Shining (1980) - YouTube

So do you mean Jack choked Danny while he was sitting on his lap? Except after that scene we see Danny happily playing with his trucks, when the ball rolls up to him from room 237 and he gets up and walks towards it, after which we cut to the lounge with Danny all silent and sucking his thumb after being choked. His demeanor doesn't change until after the ball rolling scene outside room 237.


This movie is so sick. Now I know what people mean when they say "don't try to figure it out - you'll just end up in a dead end like in the hedge maze"

I did a search, being I had forgotten.
Of course, Rob Ager's site comes up

He claims Jack choked his son and that there are some specific parallels between "room 237" and the "fatherly love strangling scene" (meaning the room 237 scene didn't happen. It's a metaphor).

"Jack sees a woman sitting in the bath just like Danny saw Jack sat on the bed.
One scene takes place in a bathroom and the other features a wide open bathroom door next to the bed.
Jack sees the woman slowly push the shower curtain aside, and Danny sees Jack hold out his arm in a similar gesture.
We see Jack do this as he’s reflected in a mirror, possibly symbolizing the duality of the event, and there is even a curtain draped behind the mirror, as if Jack is symbolically pushing it aside like the shower curtain.
Jack sees a sexual invitation, just as Danny saw a fatherly love invitation.
Jack hesitates then slowly approaches just like Danny did in the fatherly love scene.
In both scenes the characters embrace intimately, but then the parallels stop."

http://www.collativelearning.com/the...0chap%208.html

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

[emoji38]cry:

I know. I know.
If anything, that Rob has alot of time on his hands and has just as inventive an imagination as Kubrick. Hell, Ager probably spent more time on The Shining than Kubrick did. Haaaa.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

I Hell, Ager probably spent more time on The Shining than Kubrick did. Haaaa.

I have no doubts about that. He's dedicated if anything else.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I have no doubts about that. He's dedicated if anything else.

Hahaha yeah definitely.

[clifford finch]

OMG its a horror movie folks it doesn't need to have an explanation steeped in reality, so long as its interesting and provokes fear for the audience it works. Ager is nuts and much too impressed with himself.

[Boggle]

Ohhh, so Jack was the one who strangled Danny... riiiiight yes... Must've been that "toxic masculinity" I've heard so much about.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by clifford finch

OMG its a horror movie folks it doesn't need to have an explanation steeped in reality, so long as its interesting and provokes fear for the audience it works. Ager is nuts and much too impressed with himself.

True.
I was about to add, that, we can agree that the movie is great. It works as a great movie.
Then you come across movie analysis pages (for whatever movie: The Thing, 2001 A Space Odyssey, The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut...etc) and it makes one enjoy em in a different way; like a second version of the film.
I think of all these movie analysis' as a second way to enjoy a movie, the same way I like, say, Spinal Tap as a movie, but then I watch it with the commentary on and I can enjoy it as a "second movie". Two movies in one

[amarster]

i really like seeing so much passion on this message board for this film. It is probably the best horror film of all time...and yes this includes the previous ground rattler The Exorcist. All of the arguments about alcoholism are also expected with two different cuts of the movie focusing on this aspect differently. I think this is an ultimate haunted house film because all hauntings would probably prey on the weakest aspect of the occupants personality..which in this case is Jack's dependency on alcohol. The spirits direct him throughout the film to pursue this path and ultimately convince him to attempt to kill his family. I really wish Kubrick would have commented on this directly but this is the beauty of film and it is ultimately up to the the viewer and their interpretation to what they are seeing and what it means to them.