Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[whipnet]

I'll add that I've read animated movies compress better making them smaller requiring less bandwidth. That is a factor too.

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[master gandhi]

One of the reasons I prefer digital to physical is that there's less fuss.

Super recent example:

I got the new Star Wars: TFA 3D with new exclusive bonus features. I popped in the bonus disc at my parents' house last night, and it didn't want to load at first. Then I ejected & re-inserted the disc and it played, but during the first feature (the feature-length doc) it majorly skipped, even when I rewound it or fast-forwarded it. We reverted to the extras on VUDU for that one feature, which was thankfully not one of the exclusives. It played flawlessly on VUDU and looked identical in quality.

I'm going to need to get that disc exchanged for one that works properly, even though I'll probably only watch the extras on my Roku's DMA app. It's like the universe is trying to reinforce my decision to mostly shift to digital these days. The main reason I got that 3D version was for the new features, which you can't buy on digital. It must be redeemed from the code that's included with the collector's edition BD.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

One of the reasons I prefer digital to physical is that there's less fuss.

Super recent example:

I got the new Star Wars: TFA 3D with new exclusive bonus features. I popped in the bonus disc at my parents' house last night, and it didn't want to load at first. Then I ejected & re-inserted the disc and it played, but during the first feature (the feature-length doc) it majorly skipped, even when I rewound it or fast-forwarded it. We reverted to the extras on VUDU for that one feature, which was thankfully not one of the exclusives. It played flawlessly on VUDU and looked identical in quality.

I'm going to need to get that disc exchanged for one that works properly, even though I'll probably only watch the extras on my Roku's DMA app. It's like the universe is trying to reinforce my decision to mostly shift to digital these days. The main reason I got that 3D version was for the new features, which you can't buy on digital. It must be redeemed from the code that's included with the collector's edition BD.

Yes Master, you brought up a good point, Discs play a lot better now on all players but I do remember a time DVD's had some problems playing on some players because of updates. So this could happen again with Discs, if they don't have the right upgrades not playing on all players. So just because you have Disc doesn't mean you will not have problems.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes Master, you brought up a good point, Discs play a lot better now on all players but I do remember a time DVD's had some problems playing on some players because of updates. So this could happen again with Discs, if they don't have the right upgrades not playing on all players. So just because you have Disc doesn't mean you will not have problems.

Discs can be manufactured poorly or break, but the likelihood of every copy of a specific title breaking is minuscule. If one of my discs breaks I can buy a replacement from one of the thousands of people who still has a working copy, even long after the title goes out of print. Removed digital titles have no replacements.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Yes Master, you brought up a good point, Discs play a lot better now on all players but I do remember a time DVD's had some problems playing on some players because of updates. So this could happen again with Discs, if they don't have the right upgrades not playing on all players. So just because you have Disc doesn't mean you will not have problems.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Discs can be manufactured poorly or break, but the likelihood of every copy of a specific title breaking is minuscule. If one of my discs breaks I can buy a replacement from one of the thousands of people who still has a working copy, even long after the title goes out of print. Removed digital titles have no replacements.

Discs don't last forever, now you might have a good market on them but in years to come they will become scarce. Look what happened to VHS, you can hardly find one to buy now. Digital might look frail to some people, but if backed up properly it should be around as long as Disc, maybe even longer.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Look what happened to VHS, you can hardly find one to buy now.

What? There are currently 374,045 listings of VHS tapes on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/VHS-Tapes/309/bn_223820/i.html

There's even 69,404 listings of LaserDiscs and those weren't nearly as popular.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Movie-LaserD..._223036/i.html

With both those formats all the people who aren't interested in keeping their copies will help ensure that copies remain available for a very long time for those who want them. The same thing will happen with DVD and Blu-ray (and all future physical formats).

But digital copies are not transferable. You can't possibly give your copy to someone who wants one or buy a copy from someone who doesn't want theirs anymore. When the studio doesn't provide a title anymore it's gone.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

With both those formats all the people who aren't interested in keeping their copies will help ensure that copies remain available for a very long time for those who want them. The same thing will happen with DVD and Blu-ray (and all future physical formats).

But digital copies are not transferable. You can't possibly give your copy to someone who wants one or buy a copy from someone who doesn't want theirs anymore. When the studio doesn't provide a title anymore it's gone.

The Studios definitely don't want this kind of thinking, Ownership in Disc or Digital is at the top of their list. So I'm sure they will come out with a way to preserve either Format.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Studios definitely don't want this kind of thinking, Ownership in Disc or Digital is at the top of their list. So I'm sure they will come out with a way to preserve either Format.

I don't see how that's possible and I'm certainly not going to support digital now in hopes that it'll be better in the future.

Physical media allows people to watch, buy, sell, and give away movies without any involvement whatsoever from the studios after they press the disc. Streaming can't match that and the studios don't want it to: if they're not involved then they can't make money.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Studios definitely don't want this kind of thinking, Ownership in Disc or Digital is at the top of their list. So I'm sure they will come out with a way to preserve either Format.

I can promise you the studios have ZERO interest in your OWNERSHIP of a movie. They are only concerned with SELLING you a movie. Selling you that movie over and over is at the top of their list. With digital only, they have much greater control over that because there is ZERO aftermarket.


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[mike568]

Originally Posted by whipnet

I can promise you the studios have ZERO interest in your OWNERSHIP of a movie. They are only concerned with SELLING you a movie. Selling you that movie over and over is at the top of their list. With digital only, they have much greater control over that because there is ZERO aftermarket.


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You could sell your whole collection by changing the name, email address, and password.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[veritas]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Studios definitely don't want this kind of thinking, Ownership in Disc or Digital is at the top of their list. So I'm sure they will come out with a way to preserve either Format.

The studios actually quite like that kind of thinking. Its basically the entire line of thinking for the Disney vault. You can have a hell of a large sales spike if you go and say next week you wont be able to buy this movie for who knows how long so buy it now while you can.

Also if studios don't like a film for example song of the south then with digital they can simply remove it from services and you can only get it illegally. With physical you at least have a chance of hunting down a used copy but with digital what a studio wants to go away stays vanished (in theory anyway both sides are ignoring piracy and public domain) .

Originally Posted by mike568

You could sell your whole collection by changing the name, email address, and password.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

That is not legal and you will receive zero support trying to do it. Doing so is a breach of contract so If caught they will simply ban your account and you will lose all your films. They are selling you a license not ownership and that license has strict no transfer clauses.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by veritas

That is not legal and you will receive zero support trying to do it. Doing so is a breach of contract so If caught they will simply ban your account and you will lose all your films.

Technically it's not illegal to sell your account. But it's also not illegal for them to ban your account and take everything away.

Originally Posted by veritas

They are selling you a license not ownership and that license has strict no transfer clauses.

Exactly. I don't know how anyone can consider digital to be ownership in the slightest.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

What? There are currently 374,045 listings of VHS tapes on eBay.

There's even 69,404 listings of LaserDiscs and those weren't nearly as popular.

With both those formats all the people who aren't interested in keeping their copies will help ensure that copies remain available for a very long time for those who want them. The same thing will happen with DVD and Blu-ray (and all future physical formats).

But digital copies are not transferable. You can't possibly give your copy to someone who wants one or buy a copy from someone who doesn't want theirs anymore. When the studio doesn't provide a title anymore it's gone.

I didn't realize there is still a market for these old Formats, but who really wants them. Some of those VHS are priced at hundreds of dollars. As a new Format comes up I lose interest in the old one. I know some people really don't care, and will keep watching older Formats but once you watch the new Format the old one is history. So maybe with Digital the Lifespan of a Movie will be shorter, and you wouldn't want to keep it forever. Time moves on and Technology even faster!

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I didn't realize there is still a market for these old Formats, but who really wants them. Some of those VHS are priced at hundreds of dollars. As a new Format comes up I lose interest in the old one. I know some people really don't care, and will keep watching older Formats but once you watch the new Format the old one is history. So maybe with Digital the Lifespan of a Movie will be shorter, and you wouldn't want to keep it forever. Time moves on and Technology even faster!

But that assumes that every title will be available on all the latest formats.

I'm not interested in VHS or LaserDisc because every title I care about made it to DVD. But the fact that they are still readily available gives me hope that every title that is never put on a format past DVD will still be readily available long after DVD support is dropped.

Plus the upgrade cycle is coming to a close. While in the future 8K, 16K, and even higher resolutions may be available 99% of all the movies and TV show that currently exist can't get any better than 4K (and many can't get any better than 1080p).

If 8K becomes standard are you going to ignore every movie made before 2020? Hardly any of them can be upgraded to 8K. I'm all for technology getting better but that doesn't mean we should discard everything made with the older technology.

I'd like every title to have the highest quality video it possibly can but I'm not going to ignore older titles just because they can't reach the video quality of newer titles. Is a Blu-ray better than a DVD of the same title? Absolutely. But is a movie or TV show bad because it's only available on DVD? Absolutely not.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by mike568

You could sell your whole collection by changing the name, email address, and password.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

yeah.......... good luck with that!

[whipnet]

A good example of this would be the movie by James Cameron "The Abyss" Find a Blu-ray or digital copy of that!

DVD is your only option that I can find. (I think you can watch on Starz, but not to own)

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[socal9]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

Fair enough then. The discussion is muddled but I don't think the numbers support your position about 720p/SD. Netflix HD seems to exceed 720p/SD at every provider. Hulu's 1080p exceeds VUDU's 720p as well. VUDU's 1080p HD has always set the bar - that's why they added the X, so you know it's extra bandwidth! Netflix presumably owns the source material for their Originals and all things being equal can probably get a better perceived quality at a slightly lower bitrate since they control the process through encode and delivery. Certainly their UHD meets or exceeds other providers.

Hulu*
SD = 1.5Mbps
720p = 3Mbps
1080p = 6Mbps
UHD = 13Mbps

Netflix
SD = 1.5Mbps
HD** = 6.7Mbps
UHD = 15.6Mbps

VUDU (the source is Jake from VUDU but I can't find the post)
720p = 4.5Mbps
1080p = 9Mbps
UHD = 15Mbps

iTunes (again, source lost to time)
SD = 1.5Mbps
720p = 4Mbps
1080p = 5Mbps

* Hulu specs are minimum requirements only
** 720p/1080p isn't broken out

Found a post on the apple forums that had the following bit rates

SD = 2.5Mbps
720p = 6 Mbps
1080p = 8Mbps

this was from a post from July, 2012 so its a bit outdated

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4117930?tstart=0

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by socal9

Found a post on the apple forums that had the following bit rates

SD = 2.5Mbps
720p = 6 Mbps
1080p = 8Mbps

this was from a post from July, 2012 so its a bit outdated

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4117930?tstart=0

That seems more accurate. I like the quality of iTunes, so I can't imagine the bitrates being about half of VUDU's.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

That seems more accurate. I like the quality of iTunes, so I can't imagine the bitrates being about half of VUDU's.

I guess iTunes has one hell of a good encoder it looks better while taking less space. That sounds like a win win .

[Krizzle1]

Originally Posted by socal9

Found a post on the apple forums that had the following bit rates

SD = 2.5Mbps
720p = 6 Mbps
1080p = 8Mbps

this was from a post from July, 2012 so its a bit outdated

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4117930?tstart=0

Yeah, its a little outdated, Apple uses a H.264 Baseline encoding profile for its 720p files, while the 1080p files use the Main encoding profile, thats why 1080p files sizes/bitrates are not much different to 720p.

Checking a random movie in iTunes will probably show 1-2Mbps bitrate difference. Last I checked they were hovering around 4-6Mbps, for 720p and 1080p

The Main profile allows Apple to have similar file sizes to 720p files while having twice the resolution