Official Power Sound Audio Thread.

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Here is the proper way to do it. You will not find anyone more knowledgeable about this stuff. Then Big Daddy.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95817


Now we can stop the back & forth before someone says something they shouldn't

I already posted Big Daddy's stickey's a couple of times. They are just being ignored.

I posted as 3 threads you need for a great system. It was post # 174

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=174

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

I already posted Big Daddy's stickey's a couple of times. They are just being ignored.

I posted as 3 threads you need for a great system.

No you are purposely twisting peoples posts for the sake of starting an argument. That's fine. I think people know what they need to do now.

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by rpneuss

No you are purposely twisting peoples posts for the sake of starting an argument. That's fine. I think people know what they need to do now.

No I thing it is time to admit you have no clue of what you are doing. Read the sticky's I posted from Big Daddy and get back to me. I made one mistake when I was talking about the Y Adapter to sub and was man enough to admit it.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

No I thing it is time to admit you have no clue of what you are doing. Read the threads and get back to me. I made one mistake when I was talking about the Y Adapter to sub and was man enough to admit it.

Forget about the part where you twisted what Tom V said all out of context. I did read Big Daddy's sticky and nothing I have done in my setup is wrong according to his directions.

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by rpneuss

Did I say anything about setting the sub filter in the receiver to "off"? Wow!

But to do bass management the filter on SUB needs to be off. Most new receivers dont have a off for sub filter.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

But to do bass management the filter on SUB needs to be off. Most new receivers dont have a off for sub filter.

I know my Subs do have an "Out" setting which disables the crossover ON THE SUB. Correct I do have them set to "Out". The receiver is definitely handling the bass management in my setup. Does the Power Sound Acoustic have an "out" or an "off" switch for the crossover?

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by rpneuss

Forget about the part where you twisted what Tom V said all out of context. I did read Big Daddy's sticky and nothing I have done in my setup is wrong according to his directions.

I did not twist anything I just copied and pasted Toms stetements.
Ok what are your crossovers set to on all your speakers and sub. In receiver and on sub.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

I did not twist anything I just copied and pasted Toms stetements.
Ok what are your crossovers set to on all your speakers and sub. In receiver and on sub.

Here's what I found worked best for me. I put the front mains to 80hz, the rears to 80hz, and the center to 110hz high pass filter in the receiver. I put the sub to 80 hz low pass filter in the receiver. On the sub itself I chose the "out" portion to disable the crossover. I set the subs to 80hz because any higher I felt I was getting localization. I'm sure my room acoustics really suck though, as do most people.

[frogmort]

I think some of you guys are confusing your bass management in your receiver with the low pass filter(LPF) of the dedicated .1 low frequency effect(LFE) channel.

Bass management is a completely seperate thing from the LFE channel. If you cut a speaker off at say 80hz, everything below that gets redirected to the sub(s) and is layered in with the discrete .1 LFE channel. That's bass management.

The LFE channel is the discreet .1 information that covers a range of up to 120hz, and is specifically used by the mixing engineers for content exclusively for the subwoofer output channel. (There is usually not much information in this discrete channel up near 120hz, but there could be.)

If you set the LPF of your LFE any lower than 120hz, the discrete .1 information above that lowered frequency point is just thrown away, and is not bass managed and redirected anywhere else the way your speaker crossovers do by bass managing the lowest frequencies away from your speakers and to the subwoofer.


From Chris Kyriakakis, inventor and CTO of Audyssey: "It's a filter that is applied to the content of the separate LFE track found in 5.1 content. That content is authored up to 120 Hz and so the only correct setting is 120 Hz."

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/321931-lpf-on-lfe


From Big Daddy, moderator and resident audio genius on blu-ray.com: "The LFE (.1) provides a dedicated channel for the low bass that is used in theaters to add impact to the movies. The LFE signal is band-limited to frequencies below 120 Hz.

The LFE channel is an independent channel and has no effect on the other speakers. The information that is in the LFE channel extends up to 120Hz regardless of whether you have bookshelf speakers or full-range super tower speakers. It is important to distinguish between the LFE channel and what goes to a subwoofer. The LFE is a production channel, whereas the subwoofer is a playback channel."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ighlight=120hz[/QUOTE]

One thing that can make this confusing is that not all receivers have an option for adjusting the LPF of the LFE. On an HD Sony receiver that I have, there is no option. It is just hardwired to 120hz. In my HD Onkyo receiver I have the option to adjust the LPF of the LFE channel if I choose to.

If your receiver has a LPF, the only thing that it does is determine what information is being sent to the subs from the discrete .1 channel information. It has nothing at all to do with the information redirected from your other speakers to the subwoofer by use of your receivers crossovers, which is bass management.

Of course it's your equipment, and you are always free to do whatever you want to with it, and make whatever adjustments that sound good to you.

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by rpneuss

Here's what I found worked best for me. I put the front mains to 80hz, the rears to 80hz, and the center to 110hz high pass filter. I put the sub to 80 hz low pass filter in the receiver. On the sub itself I chose the "out" portion to disable the crossover. I set the subs to 80hz because any higher I felt I was getting localization. I'm sure my room acoustics really suck though, as do most people.

One of your earlier post said you had sides on 100 and center to 120. That are two areas that are issues. The sides from 100 to 80hz should be going to sub but it is not because your sub is only playing bass from 80hz and below. But now you say the sides are on 80hz so you are good there now. Anything below 80 hz is going to the sub. But the center at 110 anything below that is lost and has no where to go. There is a lot going on in the center from 110 to 80hz why would you want to lose that info. Try you sub at 100hz in receiver and just make sure the sub crossover is turned all the way up.

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by frogmort

I think some of you guys are confusing your bass management in your receiver with the low pass filter(LPF) of the dedicated .1 low frequency effect(LFE) channel.

Bass management is a completely seperate thing from the LFE channel. If you cut a speaker off at say 80hz, everything below that gets redirected to the sub(s) and is layered in with the discrete .1 LFE channel. That's bass management.

The LFE channel is the discreet .1 information that covers a range of up to 120hz, and is specifically used by the mixing engineers for content exclusively for the subwoofer output channel. (There is usually not much information in this discrete channel up near 120hz, but there could be.)

If you set the LPF of your LFE any lower than 120hz, the discrete .1 information above that lowered frequency point is just thrown away, and is not bass managed and redirected anywhere else the way your speaker crossovers do by bass managing the lowest frequencies away from your speakers and to the subwoofer.


From Chris Kyriakakis, inventor and CTO of Audyssey: "It's a filter that is applied to the content of the separate LFE track found in 5.1 content. That content is authored up to 120 Hz and so the only correct setting is 120 Hz."

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/321931-lpf-on-lfe


From Big Daddy, moderator and resident audio genious on blu-ray.com: "The LFE (.1) provides a dedicated channel for the low bass that is used in theaters to add impact to the movies. The LFE signal is band-limited to frequencies below 120 Hz.

The LFE channel is an independent channel and has no effect on the other speakers. The information that is in the LFE channel extends up to 120Hz regardless of whether you have bookshelf speakers or full-range super tower speakers. It is important to distinguish between the LFE channel and what goes to a subwoofer. The LFE is a production channel, whereas the subwoofer is a playback channel."

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ighlight=120hz

One thing that can make this confusing is that not all receivers have an option for adjusting the LPF of the LFE. On an HD Sony receiver that I have, there is no option. It is just hardwired to 120hz. In my HD Onkyo receiver I have the option to adjust the LPF of the LFE channel if I choose to.

If your receiver has a LPF, the only thing that it does is determine what information is being sent to the subs from the discrete .1 channel information. It has nothing at all to do with the information redirected from your other speakers to the subwoofer by use of your receivers crossovers, which is bass management.

Of course it's your equipment, and you are always free to do whatever you want to with it, and make whatever adjustments that sound good to you. [/QUOTE]




+1 frogmort. You said what I was trying to say all day in a couple of paragraphs. But I have tge Flu and should be in bed.

[theJman]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

But the center at 110 anything below that is lost and has no where to go. There is a lot going on in the center from 110 to 80hz why would you want to lose that info.

Why do you say that? Setting the crossover for the center at 110Hz, and anything/everything else to 80Hz, does not create a gap. The AVR takes care of all that for you; the channels are discrete, so you aren't losing a thing.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

One of your earlier post said you had sides on 100 and center to 120. That are two areas that are issues. The sides from 100 to 80hz should be going to sub but it is not because your sub is only playing bass from 80hz and below. But now you say the sides are on 80hz so you are good there now. Anything below 80 hz is going to the sub. But the center at 110 anything below that is lost and has no where to go. There is a lot going on in the center from 110 to 80hz why would you want to lose that info. Try you sub at 100hz in receiver and just make sure the sub crossover is turned all the way up.

I highly doubt I'm gonna notice that portion from my center channel. I guess I don't see that as a problem. I will give it a try as I'm always tinkering. You are right earlier I did have my numbers wrong as I was at work and thought that's what they were. When I got home I checked my settings and posted the numbers. I just spec'd my center and the frequency response is 80hz - 20khz. I don't think it would be wise to set the crossover that close to its limit.

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by theJman

Why do you say that? Setting the crossover for the center at 110Hz, and any
thing/everything else to 80Hz, does not create a gap. The AVR takes care of all that for you; the channels are discrete, so you aren't losing a thing.

110hz on your center is your cutoff. So anything below 110hz should be sent to your sub. But if your sub is set to play up to 80hz only. That 81hz to 109hz gets thrown away. I know its not that close you do have some rolloff.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

110hz on your center is your cutoff. So anything below 110hz should be sent to your sub. But if your sub is set to play up to 80hz only. That 81hz to 109hz gets thrown away. I know its not that close you do have some rolloff.

Why would I risk damaging my speaker though when the other 4 speakers will reproduce frequencies in that range?

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by rpneuss

I highly doubt I'm gonna notice that portion from my center channel. I guess I don't see that as a problem. I will give it a try as I'm always tinkering. You are right earlier I did have my numbers wrong as I was at work and thought that's what they were. When I got home I checked my settings and posted the numbers. I just spec'd my center and the frequency response is 80hz - 20khz. I don't think it would be wise to set the crossover that close to its limit.

The rule I follow is 20 hz over specs for speaker so 100hz on your center would be perfect. But if you ran audyssey on your system we dont no if you are using room correction on all your speakers. The rule on room correcetion is you can go up on HZ it sets but not down. If you come down room correction gets turned off for those speakers.

The center plays 60 % of a movie so you could be losing a good amount of info.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

The rule I follow is 20 hz over specs for speaker so 100hz on your center would be perfect. But if you ran audyssey on your system we dont no if you are using room correction on all your speakers. The rule on room correcetion is you can go up on HZ it sets but not down. If you come down room correction gets turned off for those speakers.

The center plays 60 % of a movie so you could be losing a good amount of info.

I would be willing to bet that I couldn't distinguish any difference whether it was on 100 or 110. Audyssey did set it to 110. The center channels job isn't to reproduce low frequencies anyway.

[mreilly611]

Originally Posted by rpneuss

Why would I risk damaging my speaker though when the other 4 speakers will reproduce frequencies in that range?

What do you mean damaging the other 4 speakers. What would you be sending them to cause damage? The crossover is set for the fronts, sides, center, rears in 7.1 system and each crossover is seperate. If those speakers are rated to play 60hz going to 80hz or higher is no issue. You dont want to go to far below or you coukd cause distortion in speaker.

We were getting somewhere I saw you said damaging speaker. And did not unerstand why you would damaging speaker. And I said speakers by mistake.

[Raynist]

Originally Posted by theJman

Why do you say that? Setting the crossover for the center at 110Hz, and anything/everything else to 80Hz, does not create a gap. The AVR takes care of all that for you; the channels are discrete, so you aren't losing a thing.

Right!

My denon receivers (if I remember correctly) don't have a crossover setting for the sub. I can adjust the crossover frequency for each channel and anything below that frequency goes to the sub. On one of my setups the surrounds can only play down to 120, any sound info for the surrounds below 120 goes to the sub. This isn't ideal, but will remain that way until i get some better surrounds.

[rpneuss]

Originally Posted by mreilly611

What do you mean damaging the other 4 speakers. What would you be sending them to cause damage? The crossover is set for the fronts, sides, center, rears in 7.1 system and each crossover is seperate. If those speakers are rated to play 60hz going to 80hz or higher is no issue. You dont want to go to far below or you coukd cause distortion in speaker.

See what I mean. I never said anything about damaging the other 4 speakers. I'm done with the black hole guys. Sorry!