Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

I think I actually have a small pile of DVDs I haven't given away somewhere. I don't even like them in the case.

Besides anyone I would give it to is already on my Vudu ultraviolet plan and can see it because I always redeem my UV codes and they can watch it in HD

So what harm are the DVDs doing? Them being pointless is neither a negative nor a positive. Some people use the DVDs and others don't. For the people who don't use the DVDs (like you) what's the disadvantage of them being included?

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

So what harm are the DVDs doing? Them being pointless is neither a negative nor a positive. Some people use the DVDs and others don't. For the people who don't use the DVDs (like you) what's the disadvantage of them being included?

Well in theory the price could be lower without them. Also usually the bluray is on top and the dvd is more secure in the bottom IIRC so I always like the blu on the bottom. Maybe I'm paranoid. Then I have to go through the 'hassle' of getting rid of them.

Besides, the format should have been deaded a long time ago.

Though many studios seem to have finally stopped including them recently.


What's the advantage since you're defending them so much?

The only one I ever hear is people with kids saying they let their kids use it or for the car.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

No I got that point, but his ideal price is less than $20 and I think that is shared by a lot of people now. Like I said, I sell on eBay and no one wants to pay full price anymore. Closer to half or less, and they want Free Shipping.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

You can't really compare eBay sales to major retailer sales. Plenty of people are buying brand new copies at launch for $20 at Amazon, Best Buy, Target, or Wal-Mart. Why would they be willing to buy a used copy with missing parts on eBay for close to the same price?

I've been selling Blu-rays and DVD's on eBay for a while, and you build up a Seller Reputation plus I said it was a small window. You're right people pay attention to the pricing, but I use to sell Recent Releases for just below Launch Price and they would sell. No more, now it's all the way down to pass half the price including shipping. Right now you can find Digital Releases for half the price of Physical, so I'm sure the sales for Physical will start reflecting this.

[Member-353571]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

And here it is on VUDU, it's not available to purchase at all:

http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content/174890/Triangle

That's the one. I have access only to the SD version despite paying for HD. The argument that you'll never lose access simply isn't true. Vudu's response to this is what really got to me. They'll never get another dollar from me and I'll discourage anyone else from using their service.

[PenguinMaster]

All this talk of price and DVDs is distracting from a much more important discussion:

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

Well Vudu has lost me as a customer. I lost access to a title I purchased. At least access to the quality level of the film I paid for.

I purchased the HD version of a movie called "Triangle". HDX was not an available option. Since they have removed HD, SD is now the only playback option. I and several others posted about this in their forums. Vudu's response? Quoted from FelipeF of Vudu, "The studio responsible for this title has gone out of business. No one else has claimed the rights for this content. There's no way to get a new encode for this title I'm afraid. SD will be the only quality available."

So in other words, "Oh well." I will strongly discourage anyone from buying from Vudu, and I know I never will again if I can't trust to have access to the movies I paid for.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

And here it is on VUDU, it's not available to purchase at all:
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content/174890/Triangle

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

That's the one. I have access only to the SD version despite paying for HD. The argument that you'll never lose access simply isn't true. Vudu's response to this is what really got to me. They'll never get another dollar from me and I'll discourage anyone else from using their service.

What's your reaction to all this, alchav?

[dublinbluray108]

I don't know if this story was covered here but it could be mentioned here again.

Sony had recently made a near $1 Billion writedown to reduce the loss of profit from their physical media sales.

Note these words from a Sony Spokesperson on the matter. It doesn't make for good reading for Physical collectors like myself.

"The decline in the DVD & Blu-ray market was faster than we had anticipated".

https://arstechnica.com/business/201...ng/?comments=1

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

Well Vudu has lost me as a customer. I lost access to a title I purchased. At least access to the quality level of the film I paid for.

I purchased the HD version of a movie called "Triangle". HDX was not an available option. Since they have removed HD, SD is now the only playback option. I and several others posted about this in their forums. Vudu's response? Quoted from FelipeF of Vudu, "The studio responsible for this title has gone out of business. No one else has claimed the rights for this content. There's no way to get a new encode for this title I'm afraid. SD will be the only quality available."

So in other words, "Oh well." I will strongly discourage anyone from buying from Vudu, and I know I never will again if I can't trust to have access to the movies I paid for.

That is definitely cause for concern. I don't understand why VUDU would think it's okay to eliminate the 720p version and not replace it with at least an upconverted 1080p version. That's one of those situations where I'd demand a refund at least as a courtesy for that unresolved situation. They need to take responsibility for eliminating the 720p version. That wasn't the studio's choice. That was purely decided by VUDU.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

That is definitely cause for concern. I don't understand why VUDU would think it's okay to eliminate the 720p version and not replace it with at least an upconverted 1080p version. That's one of those situations where I'd demand a refund at least as a courtesy for that unresolved situation. They need to take responsibility for eliminating the 720p version. That wasn't the studio's choice. That was purely decided by VUDU.

VUDU doesn't even offer 'HD' (720) anymore in general. It's just SD or HDX and occasionally UHD.

[Member-353571]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

That is definitely cause for concern. I don't understand why VUDU would think it's okay to eliminate the 720p version and not replace it with at least an upconverted 1080p version. That's one of those situations where I'd demand a refund at least as a courtesy for that unresolved situation. They need to take responsibility for eliminating the 720p version. That wasn't the studio's choice. That was purely decided by VUDU.

That's been mentioned, but so far Vudu has pretty much ignored those comments.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by flyry

VUDU doesn't even offer 'HD' (720) anymore in general. It's just SD or HDX and occasionally UHD.

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

That's been mentioned, but so far Vudu has pretty much ignored those comments.

I've never had trouble communicating an issue with VUDU. They've addressed my concerns 100% of the time, even if their response does take a while. My recommendation is to be civil and clear about your issue, and clear about the resolution you seek. Obviously your desired resolution should be fair, and not something they think isn't warranted. In this particular situation, I'd at least ask for a partial refund, since you still have the movie, just not in the quality you originally purchased it.

I'm fully aware that VUDU eliminated 720p across the board. Hence my point that it was not a studio decision, but a VUDU decision to go from SD, HD, HDX and UHD to SD, HDX and UHD. They need to make sure someone with an HD movie isn't downgraded to SD, but is instead upgraded to HDX as VUDU had promised when that transition took place. If they can't do that, I think a partial refund is fair.

[Member-353571]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

I've never had trouble communicating an issue with VUDU. They've addressed my concerns 100% of the time, even if their response does take a while. My recommendation is to be civil and clear about your issue, and clear about the resolution you seek. Obviously your desired resolution should be fair, and not something they think isn't warranted. In this particular situation, I'd at least ask for a partial refund, since you still have the movie, just not in the quality you originally purchased it.

I'm fully aware that VUDU eliminated 720p across the board. Hence my point that it was not a studio decision, but a VUDU decision to go from SD, HD, HDX and UHD to SD, HDX and UHD. They need to make sure someone with an HD movie isn't downgraded to SD, but is instead upgraded to HDX as VUDU had promised when that transition took place. If they can't do that, I think a partial refund is fair.

They already responded. It essentially boiled down to, "Oh well. Can't do anything about it." See the initial post. Hence, my no longer wishing to shop from them.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

They already responded. It essentially boiled down to, "Oh well. Can't do anything about it." See the initial post. Hence, my no longer wishing to shop from them.

I understand that they responded. My point is to make sure your request was clear and you asked for a clear resolution. Now that they say they can't give you a better version, you could maybe request a partial refund. My two cents. It's a frustrating situation no matter how you slice it.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

They already responded. It essentially boiled down to, "Oh well. Can't do anything about it." See the initial post. Hence, my no longer wishing to shop from them.

I would call them. They always help me over the phone. Their email customer service never gets anywhere but they're very accommodating on the phone.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by flyry

I would call them. They always help me over the phone. Their email customer service never gets anywhere but they're very accommodating on the phone.

Good to know. I've never called before, because they've always addressed my issues just fine via email. This situation seems like an appropriate time to call, though. No use getting the run-around via email on this sticky matter.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

And here it is on VUDU, it's not available to purchase at all:
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content/174890/Triangle

Originally Posted by Lowenbotten

That's the one. I have access only to the SD version despite paying for HD. The argument that you'll never lose access simply isn't true. Vudu's response to this is what really got to me. They'll never get another dollar from me and I'll discourage anyone else from using their service.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

What's your reaction to all this, alchav?

Triangle, yes I remember this Movie with Melissa George, interesting but I didn't feel it was a Keeper. I think if he talks to Vudu Management with his displeasure they might give him Credit. This is a small Independent Studio that's gone out of business, and no way to get the encoding rights. All of my Movies are in HDX, just a couple in SD like Pacific Heights that is still not available in HDX. It does bring up a good point having Digital or Physical, if he had the Disc it would still be in HD. However with the Studio out of business, and if something happened to his Disc and he couldn't find a replacement and/or demand skyrocket with price. He would still be out of this Movie.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It does bring up a good point having Digital or Physical, if he had the Disc it would still be in HD. However with the Studio out of business, and if something happened to his Disc and he couldn't find a replacement and/or demand skyrocket with price. He would still be out of this Movie.

When I argued that digital copies could be taken away you said they couldn't. Now here's an example of one being taken away and your argument is that physical media can be lost as well?

A studio being out of business doesn't prevent any of the thousands of people with discs from selling them. And the more support that physical media gets in the first place the more copies there will be available.

Best case scenario for physical media is that there are enough copies that the title remains readily available. Worst case scenario for physical media is demand outpaces supply and the copy you have is suddenly worth a bunch of money. Both scenarios are good in different ways.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

I don't know if this story was covered here but it could be mentioned here again.

Sony had recently made a near $1 Billion writedown to reduce the loss of profit from their physical media sales.

Note these words from a Sony Spokesperson on the matter. It doesn't make for good reading for Physical collectors like myself.

"The decline in the DVD & Blu-ray market was faster than we had anticipated".

https://arstechnica.com/business/201...ng/?comments=1

This Article brings up a very good point, Physical has a lot more negative items than Digital. My biggest complaint with Disc was all the Junk, that's why I started to Back-up my Discs and take all that Junk off. With Digital you can start the Movie and not sit through all that stuff. You can also start and stop it just about anywhere, and come back to the Movie anytime. Like I said, the decline in the DVD/Blu-ray Market is coming on faster than anyone had predicted. With my small window of selling on eBay it has been very obvious to me.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It does bring up a good point having Digital or Physical, if he had the Disc it would still be in HD. However with the Studio out of business, and if something happened to his Disc and he couldn't find a replacement and/or demand skyrocket with price. He would still be out of this Movie.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

When I argued that digital copies could be taken away you said they couldn't. Now here's an example of one being taken away and your argument is that physical media can be lost as well?

A studio being out of business doesn't prevent any of the thousands of people with discs from selling them. And the more support that physical media gets in the first place the more copies there will be available.

Best case scenario for physical media is that there are enough copies that the title remains readily available. Worst case scenario for physical media is demand outpaces supply and the copy you have is suddenly worth a bunch of money. Both scenarios are good in different ways.

Well it wasn't really taken away, just the HD portion. My point was that with Physical unforeseen things can happen too. I guess bottom line everyone has to set their own priorities, and which ones are important to them. My biggest Pro is Early Release, I have already watched Arrival, Hacksaw Ridge, and tonight Nocturnal Animals. I predict with Digital Early Release will be the Big Motivator!

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well it wasn't really taken away, just the HD portion. My point was that with Physical unforeseen things can happen too. I guess bottom line everyone has to set their own priorities, and which ones are important to them. My biggest Pro is Early Release, I have already watched Arrival, Hacksaw Ridge, and tonight Nocturnal Animals. I predict with Digital Early Release will be the Big Motivator!

The big motivator for me is no disc rot, no scratched discs, no sold out releases. Just buy it and watch it immediately.

I'm considering buying the 2D/3D bundle of Doctor Strange on VUDU next week instead of waiting for the physical release.

I really don't like discs, even if they do still offer the best overall presentation on home video. I can see people years from now scoffing at the idea of physical media. But don't think the benefits of physical are lost on me. I just prefer digital and see it as a much more efficient delivery method.

[flyry]

I do find it interesting that pretty much all of the Amazon studios movies get put on Amazon in UHD but never get 4k discs ( The Neon Demon, Cafe Society, Manchester by the Sea to name a few). The first 2 of those with 4k DI. While we continue to get upscales on discs.