Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)

[obscureguy]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Also Marvel's "cinematic universe" thing is greatly influencing other studios in a way I'm pretty worried about, personally. I prefer standalone series.

I see this criticism alot nowadays. It seems the trendy thing to do is bash Marvel for "creating this monster" of all the studios trying to copy their cinematic universe formula. But heres the thing...Marvel is the first studio to ever attempt such a thing. Like these films or not, we are literally witnessing cinematic history with what Marvel is doing. Several individual films that stand alone but all build toward something greater? No other film franchise in history has done what they are in the midst of doing. 2008-2019 - 11 years of connected, but separate films that tell self contained stories but also build toward something greater. Astounding.

If you're not into it, thats your right. But instead of everyone blaming Marvel....start placing the blame on all the other studios for trying to "cash in" and copying as badly as they are. Marvel found something that works. Its not their fault if everyone else lacks the vision or ambition to do something more creative. Not trying to sound combative, just my opinion

[seannyd]

Originally Posted by obscureguy

I see this criticism alot nowadays. It seems the trendy thing to do is bash Marvel for "creating this monster" of all the studios trying to copy their cinematic universe formula. But heres the thing...Marvel is the first studio to ever attempt such a thing. Like these films or not, we are literally witnessing cinematic history with what Marvel is doing. Several individual films that stand alone but all build toward something greater? No other film franchise in history has done what they are in the midst of doing. 2008-2019 - 11 years of connected, but separate films that tell self contained stories but also build toward something greater. Astounding.

If you're not into it, thats your right. But instead of everyone blaming Marvel....start placing the blame on all the other studios for trying to "cash in" and copying as badly as they are. Marvel found something that works. Its not their fault if everyone else lacks the vision or ambition to do something more creative. Not trying to sound combative, just my opinion

I don't think anyone is really bashing Marvel for this, except for the complaints about how they're not getting it quite right sometimes. Like you said, they pioneered it.

It is definitely annoying that other studios feel they need to imitate it, not realizing that the nature of the source material lends itself to a shared universe.

[obscureguy]

Originally Posted by seannyd

I don't think anyone is really bashing Marvel for this, except for the complaints about how they're not getting it quite right sometimes. Like you said, they pioneered it.

It is definitely annoying that other studios feel they need to imitate it, not realizing that the nature of the source material lends itself to a shared universe.

I'm not advocating that every single Marvel film is a 5 star masterpiece by any means...they're fun movies for what they are, some much better than others. I just think Marvel, as a studio, gets alot of unfair criticism lately...like its somehow THEIR fault that every other studio is trying to half ass their own cinematic universe right now.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by obscureguy

I see this criticism alot nowadays. It seems the trendy thing to do is bash Marvel for "creating this monster" of all the studios trying to copy their cinematic universe formula. But heres the thing...Marvel is the first studio to ever attempt such a thing. Like these films or not, we are literally witnessing cinematic history with what Marvel is doing. Several individual films that stand alone but all build toward something greater? No other film franchise in history has done what they are in the midst of doing. 2008-2019 - 11 years of connected, but separate films that tell self contained stories but also build toward something greater. Astounding.

If you're not into it, thats your right. But instead of everyone blaming Marvel....start placing the blame on all the other studios for trying to "cash in" and copying as badly as they are. Marvel found something that works. Its not their fault if everyone else lacks the vision or ambition to do something more creative. Not trying to sound combative, just my opinion

I mean, they started it and I don't like it. I don't even like that Marvel does it. That's all I'm saying, in my opinion it's not a good thing.

[seannyd]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I mean, they started it and I don't like it. I don't even like that Marvel does it. That's all I'm saying, in my opinion it's not a good thing.

I actually thought they were doing a pretty good job with it for the most part. Iron Man 2 was a step in the wrong direction but pretty much all of phase 2 was standalone. Iron Man 3 didn't really set anything up for the overall universe. Cap 2 and Thor 2 pretty much only set up their own sequels.

Guardians shoehorned in Thanos a bit but beyond that was very standalone.

Now it seems like it's all Infinity War all the time. Thanos still hasn't shown that he's much of a threat (especially because he started the series with one stone and the lent it to Loki to get a second and now has zero.)

I'm actually VERY worried that Civil War is going to be less a Cap movie and more an Avengers movie which bums me out, as much as I love the Avengers as an idea. Thor 3 sounds like it could be more "universe building". And this is where you run into problems. Because you're no longer servicing your own movie.

I don't mind having a team up movie but you have to serve the individual story and I worry Marvel is losing sight of that.

[ChristmasFnatic]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

So now containing a complete story in one movie is having that story "come out of nowhere"? This argument would make more sense if literally 99.9% of movies didn't contain all the character motivations and storyline in the one movie.

Its a shared universe afterall. Surely, theres a link here and there to the past and to the next movie. But its not as obvious as some might imply. So unless you nitpick and point "hey, thats a setup for the next movie"... most wont probably see it. Only us who are either Marvel fans or who reads the next upcoming blockbuster by Marvel.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by seannyd

I don't mind having a team up movie but you have to serve the individual story and I worry Marvel is losing sight of that.

Pretty much, yeah.

Every series should be able to stand on its own. A team-up series is a good (and obviously profitable) thing to have, but it should stand alone as a superhero team movie and the solo films should stand alone as completely separate entities. In 20 years I should be able to show my son the Captain America trilogy and not have to worry about 20 other movies.

It's just all getting a little too "TV show" for me at this point. One of the reasons I prefer movies to TV 90% of the time is finite, self-contained stories.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Pretty much, yeah.

Every series should be able to stand on its own. A team-up series is a good (and obviously profitable) thing to have, but it should stand alone as a superhero team movie and the solo films should stand alone as completely separate entities. In 20 years I should be able to show my son the Captain America trilogy and not have to worry about 20 other movies.

It's just all getting a little too "TV show" for me at this point. One of the reasons I prefer movies to TV 90% of the time is finite, self-contained stories.

So much this. The CAPTAIN AMERICA films, I think, are the best films of the MCU and it pains me to no end that it's linked to the MCU. As you say, I (we) should be able to watch the CAP films by themselves and not have to worry about the winks, nods, and plot points laid out for films that don't even concern the Captain America character.

Yeah, Marvel's doing TV on cinema. There's no debate about it now after AGE OF ULTRON.

Having said all of that, at least it feels like INFINITY WAR is the end of this era of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, so it in a way, it is self contained...if you stop watching after INFINITY WAR, which is my plan.

Still, future viewings of the Marvel Cinematic Universe are going to be troublesome for me because there's going to be no need to revisit a lot of the films.

[seannyd]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Pretty much, yeah.

Every series should be able to stand on its own. A team-up series is a good (and obviously profitable) thing to have, but it should stand alone as a superhero team movie and the solo films should stand alone as completely separate entities. In 20 years I should be able to show my son the Captain America trilogy and not have to worry about 20 other movies.

It's just all getting a little too "TV show" for me at this point. One of the reasons I prefer movies to TV 90% of the time is finite, self-contained stories.

Like the whole thing with the Infinity Stones. Why couldn't we just be made aware it was a powerful stone in Loki's staff for Age of Ultron and deal with that its true properties in Infinity War? Why did we need to be given the same exposition that we got about the stones in Guardians. And I imagine we'll be getting similar or same exposition in the Infinity War movie itself. It's just a little bit of overload.

And listen, to me, these are mostly nitpicks from a guy who wants to see the MCU survive for another 10 years. I just worry about the universe collapsing under the weight of its own continuity.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by seannyd

Like the whole thing with the Infinity Stones. Why couldn't we just be made aware it was a powerful stone in Loki's staff for Age of Ultron and deal with that its true properties in Infinity War? Why did we need to be given the same exposition that we got about the stones in Guardians. And I imagine we'll be getting similar or same exposition in the Infinity War movie itself. It's just a little bit of overload.

And listen, to me, these are mostly nitpicks from a guy who wants to see the MCU survive for another 10 years. I just worry about the universe collapsing under the weight of its own continuity.

Because of the nature of the shared universe, I see why they had Thor explain the Infinity Stones again because I'm sure there's a large percentage of the audience that didn't watched GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY. So, to set up Phase 3 and what it's all been leading to since IRON MAN, Marvel wanted it explained again.

For those that have been following since day one, yeah, it felt like too much or not needed. God forbid when they start adding TV stuff to the films of shows that many don't watch. Then, the continuity will just be a burden on just telling good stories on film.

[imsounoriginal]

I honestly didn't think there was too much Infinity Stones stuff in AoU; the exposition about the Stones was pretty efficient, more of a reminder than an outright explanation (Infinity Stones 101). Kinda felt the entire movie was an efficient crowd-pleaser, no more or no less. The director's cut would be nice to give the movie some room to breathe and add additional character beats, but if anything, it'd probably add even more Infinity Stones background and explanation (the deleted Thor skinny-dipping scene). Marvel's in uncharted territory with the shared universe, there's gonna be some bumps along the way (IM2, Thor 2) but they've been able to course-correct pretty well. After Infinity War, though, I dunno how much interest I'll have in this whole thing.

[seannyd]

Originally Posted by Lava_Lander

Getting back to the Blu-ray...

Will there be a 3D edition in full-IMAX ratio, like the Guardians 3D edition?

I don't believe that there was any expanded picture during the IMAX presentation so I can't imagine there would be on this disc. The only Marvel movie to do that up to this point was Guardians.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by obscureguy

I see this criticism alot nowadays. It seems the trendy thing to do is bash Marvel for "creating this monster" of all the studios trying to copy their cinematic universe formula. But heres the thing...Marvel is the first studio to ever attempt such a thing. Like these films or not, we are literally witnessing cinematic history with what Marvel is doing. Several individual films that stand alone but all build toward something greater? No other film franchise in history has done what they are in the midst of doing. 2008-2019 - 11 years of connected, but separate films that tell self contained stories but also build toward something greater. Astounding.

If you're not into it, thats your right. But instead of everyone blaming Marvel....start placing the blame on all the other studios for trying to "cash in" and copying as badly as they are. Marvel found something that works. Its not their fault if everyone else lacks the vision or ambition to do something more creative. Not trying to sound combative, just my opinion

Well said!
I commend Marvel for taking on this ambitious project. It really could've been a massive failure. Thankfully, at least for me, it was not.
With all he films, TV shows and crossover/continuity I feel like I'm collecting comic books again, just on the screen versus on the page.
I hope they never stop!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Pretty much, yeah.

Every series should be able to stand on its own. A team-up series is a good (and obviously profitable) thing to have, but it should stand alone as a superhero team movie and the solo films should stand alone as completely separate entities. In 20 years I should be able to show my son the Captain America trilogy and not have to worry about 20 other movies.

It's just all getting a little too "TV show" for me at this point. One of the reasons I prefer movies to TV 90% of the time is finite, self-contained stories.

That's the trouble with any franchise of this ilk with multiple strands, it becomes extremely hard for people to dip in later on down the line because there's so much backstory that's taken for granted. Take your beloved Star Trek: as awesome as it is having 700-odd episodes at your fingertips, I'd never in a million years dream of starting a Trek newcomer off with Voyager or Enterprise (even though the latter is technically a prequel, as by the time you get to S4 they're in full-on 'filling in Trek backstory' mode anyway, e.g. the Augments, smooth-headed Klingons etc).

Ron D Moore basically disowns Trek in the TNG S7 extras for that very reason, as the series had become burdened by so much of the mythology and the technobabble that it was a slave to it, and he said he'd been calling for a reboot for years when the topic of the new movies was discussed.

Thankfully I don't think we're quite at that stage with the MCU yet, hence the extra spiel about the Infinity Stones in Avengers 2 because they know that casual fans will still need a little reminder. One thing I loved about Avengers 2 is how it played like a proper sequel to Avengers 1, and the same goes for Cap and Cap 2.

There are underlying references to wider events, sure, but they're not always essential to enjoying the movies as their own franchises. Iron Man 3 is probably the biggest exception, but seeing as it followed the third biggest movie of all time I don't see how it couldn't acknowledge it, not least because of Tony's pivotal role in the climax. I know you're getting increasingly irked by it Velvet but for the moment I'm good, and as was said above Infinity War will probably be the end of this particular Marvel cycle anyway.

Roll on Cap 3.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's the trouble with any franchise of this ilk with multiple strands, it becomes extremely hard for people to dip in later on down the line because there's so much backstory that's taken for granted. Take your beloved Star Trek: as awesome as it is having 700-odd episodes at your fingertips, I'd never in a million years dream of starting a Trek newcomer off with Voyager or Enterprise (even though the latter is technically a prequel, as by the time you get to S4 they're in full-on 'filling in Trek backstory' mode anyway, e.g. the Augments, smooth-headed Klingons etc).

I'm not talking about continuity itself or stuff within the same series. I'm totally fine with needing to see Cap 1 to understand everything in Cap 2. My problem is the inter-series continuity. Was watching Deep Space Nine ever really required to enjoy Voyager? No. You might miss some very vague and very rare references, but that's it. Iron Man 3, in contrast, is a movie built as an epilogue to a movie that isn't an Iron Man movie. Winter Soldier looks to take that to 11.

I do think there's an important difference there, and one I dislike. It wouldn't be hard to have each series stand completely alone outside of vague references. I would have preferred that, personally, so that I could pretend everything outside of Iron Man and Cap basically didn't exist.

[Jumpman]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm not talking about continuity itself or stuff within the same series. I'm totally fine with needing to see Cap 1 to understand everything in Cap 2. My problem is the inter-series continuity. Was watching Deep Space Nine ever really required to enjoy Voyager? No. You might miss some very vague and very rare references, but that's it. Iron Man 3, in contrast, is a movie built as an epilogue to a movie that isn't an Iron Man movie. Winter Soldier looks to take that to 11.

I do think there's an important difference there, and one I dislike. It wouldn't be hard to have each series stand completely alone outside of vague references. I would have preferred that, personally, so that I could pretend everything outside of Iron Man and Cap basically didn't exist.

In my opinion, the best way for that to have been done was to have the mid credits and post credits scenes be the connective tissue between the films, instead of having them spread through out each film.

From THE FIRST AVENGER to WINTER SOLDIER almost pulled that off until you get references to the "New York" situation...on top of that, you get no real introduction to Black Widow and her relationship to Steve if you've not seen IRON MAN 2 or AVENGERS.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by rickah88

With all he films, TV shows and crossover/continuity I feel like I'm collecting comic books again, just on the screen versus on the page.

Bingo.......... the format of the source material lends itself to a connected universe. Those folks who are unfamiliar might not roll w/ it.

[Bolty]

Any news on the pre-orders?

[seannyd]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm not talking about continuity itself or stuff within the same series. I'm totally fine with needing to see Cap 1 to understand everything in Cap 2. My problem is the inter-series continuity. Was watching Deep Space Nine ever really required to enjoy Voyager? No. You might miss some very vague and very rare references, but that's it. Iron Man 3, in contrast, is a movie built as an epilogue to a movie that isn't an Iron Man movie. Winter Soldier looks to take that to 11.

I do think there's an important difference there, and one I dislike. It wouldn't be hard to have each series stand completely alone outside of vague references. I would have preferred that, personally, so that I could pretend everything outside of Iron Man and Cap basically didn't exist.

I actually don't mind considering Avengers as a sequel to each franchise. I just want the franchises themselves to be able to stand on their own two feet. So if you went Iron Man 1, 2, Avengers, 3, Ultron as an "Iron Man" story, that would be fine. It's where you have to watch Cap to understand Thor or something that concerns me more than anything else. Because you need to watch an unrelated character's story to understand that story.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by seannyd

I actually don't mind considering Avengers as a sequel to each franchise. I just want the franchises themselves to be able to stand on their own two feet. So if you went Iron Man 1, 2, Avengers, 3, Ultron as an "Iron Man" story, that would be fine. It's where you have to watch Cap to understand Thor or something that concerns me more than anything else. Because you need to watch an unrelated character's story to understand that story.

But this hasnt been the case w/ any of the solo films.