Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[StatenMan18]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, but how long are you willing to wait for that Physical Disc? Some of these Physical Disc Lovers claim to want to preserve Disc, but don't want to pay full price. Because the material for a Disc doesn't cost over a Dollar, they rationalize that $5 is plenty to pay for a Physical Movie. Lot's of things could happen to Physical or Digital, but it all depends on your priorities. With Digital HD my biggest plus is Movies Now, and I predict first run Movies in Theaters will come out at the same time.

I'm in no rush to get these movies, and a lot of times I sell the digital hd (and 3D if it has it) so you don't actually pay the full asking price. Getting movies on release day only happens here and there, mainly the marvel movies because I suppose being owned by Disney now makes the price go way up after the first few weeks of release but other than that I can be patient. Plus as a movie collector, whether it be DVD or blu ray, I like having a physical collection to display. I mean with a digitial collection, it must be a list represented by icons on a screen, and I have no issue with that, it's just my preference to have it in hand. Not trying to be brag about it, but I appreciate all the badass artwork and exclusive sets some of these movies are apart of. Mine personally isn't that great but I am a slipcover fan so sometimes I just have to have it and feel it's adding more value to my collection just because I'm that much of a weirdo.

If you can download something digital to your hard drive like iTunes (at least when I used to use it) Id be much more comfortable, but even then I still don't fully trust it. These big media companies lately just buy each other out and I feel like somewhere along the way, something could go wrong and people could lose what they've invested in. like I said earlier, if you can hold it in your hand it's there and can't go anywhere you don't allow where as a file I feel like can very easily be lost without a trace. We all live in the modern world and we've all seen how things can go wrong with technology. I mean identity theft is a thing now and you can't say technology doesn't have a major influence on its success. I'm not saying vudu, Dma, iTunes, Netflix etc are going to intentionally do anything to mess with they're consumers but I will say that they're definitely vulnerable and you just never know what can go wrong. If someone's trying to steal my movies they need to come here and get them lol. Honestly I've probably watch T2 too many times so maybe im biased towards it but that's just how I feel about it.

Sorry for the rant

[Wasgo]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Oh cone on! You are kidding right? Two way interactions with the masses is not the holy grail? Is that what you are telling me?

Based on what? They already have that with apps and websites where content is cheap. For film, the cost of content is incredibly expensive.

Other than your own opinion, what are you basing this on? Right now, you're offering your opinion as proof of you being right.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, but how long are you willing to wait for that Physical Disc? Some of these Physical Disc Lovers claim to want to preserve Disc, but don't want to pay full price. Because the material for a Disc doesn't cost over a Dollar, they rationalize that $5 is plenty to pay for a Physical Movie. Lot's of things could happen to Physical or Digital, but it all depends on your priorities. With Digital HD my biggest plus is Movies Now, and I predict first run Movies in Theaters will come out at the same time.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Theaters will always be the first option as they are too profitable to cut into that market with first run digital releases. There's no way that any studio will want to sell a major movie for $20 or $30 to a household at launch when they can show it in a theater for $10 per person per viewing and still get another $20 when they launch it on disc and digital later.

So if you're impatient theaters will always be the only option... it's not an issue of digital vs disc. Sure you can get digital a week or two before the disc release but all home viewers are going to be watching each movie 3 or 4 months after theatrical showings so another week isn't a big deal.

For the people who aren't willing to spend more than $5 per movie they'll have to wait a while for either digital or disc. And digital supporters are primarily buying subscription services like Netflix or Amazon Prime. Those people are waiting years for each title.

The majority of disc buyers may not be willing to spend $15-$20 per movie but there are still way more people that are willing to spend that on discs than on digital.

Don't say always, because that's when things change. Movie Theaters are losing viewers even now. They are trying different things to bring more people in, I just saw in the News that some are putting in Jungle Jim's and Slides for kids. Now that sounds like fun for Movie Goers....Not! Home Theaters are big now, and Movie Enthusiasts are spending a lot of money on them. So I see the Digital Market and Streaming growing to cater to these people.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Don't say always, because that's when things change. Movie Theaters are losing viewers even now. They are trying different things to bring more people in, I just saw in the News that some are putting in Jungle Jim's and Slides for kids. Now that sounds like fun for Movie Goers....Not! Home Theaters are big now, and Movie Enthusiasts are spending a lot of money on them. So I see the Digital Market and Streaming growing to cater to these people.

It's true that people are spending more money on home entertainment now then they spend at theaters but the spending on each individual movie at the theater is much much higher.

For a family of four to see a movie in the theaters a single time costs around $40. If any of those people want to see it again they'll pay $10 each for an additional viewing.

Compare that to home viewership (either digital or physical): $5 for the whole family to see it once. $20 for the whole family to see it as many times as they want.

Viewership in theaters is definitely dropping, but the studios don't want to encourage that. They're doing everything they can to make sure people are spending as much money as possible on each movie. They want people to pay high amounts to see movies in theaters and buy them on disc or digital a few months later. If they start releasing movies simultaneously at home and in theaters they'll lose billions in ticket sales but only make a little of that back in increased revenue from home media sales.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Don't say always, because that's when things change. Movie Theaters are losing viewers even now. They are trying different things to bring more people in, I just saw in the News that some are putting in Jungle Jim's and Slides for kids. Now that sounds like fun for Movie Goers....Not! Home Theaters are big now, and Movie Enthusiasts are spending a lot of money on them. So I see the Digital Market and Streaming growing to cater to these people.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

It's true that people are spending more money on home entertainment now then they spend at theaters but the spending on each individual movie at the theater is much much higher.

For a family of four to see a movie in the theaters a single time costs around $40. If any of those people want to see it again they'll pay $10 each for an additional viewing.

Compare that to home viewership (either digital or physical): $5 for the whole family to see it once. $20 for the whole family to see it as many times as they want.

Viewership in theaters is definitely dropping, but the studios don't want to encourage that. They're doing everything they can to make sure people are spending as much money as possible on each movie.

You're right, the Theater Owners are the ones that don't want this to happen, but the Studios just want for their Movies to make money. Just like I predict that the cost of Physical Movies will go up, so will the cost of Digital First Run Movies. Like you said to take a family to the Theater cost easily $50+, so how much would a person pay to watch a First Run Streaming Movie on their Home Theater. I would say probably close to that $50 mark, especially for big families. Of course the Theater Owners are going to fight this tooth and nail, but the Release times keep getting shorter and shorter.

I don't go to the Theater that much anymore, and our friends in our age group are the same way. I did go see the latest Star Wars Movies at the Theater, and it didn't impress me the Picture Quality was not that good and the sound was load and distorted. So I'm all for Digital Streaming Movies Now....Can't wait for that Kong Movie!

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, the Theater Owners are the ones that don't want this to happen, but the Studios just want for their Movies to make money. Just like I predict that the cost of Physical Movies will go up, so will the cost of Digital First Run Movies. Like you said to take a family to the Theater cost easily $50+, so how much would a person pay to watch a First Run Streaming Movie on their Home Theater. I would say probably close to that $50 mark, especially for big families. Of course the Theater Owners are going to fight this tooth and nail, but the Release times keep getting shorter and shorter.

Most people are going to be comparing the prices of digital movies to other digital movies so I highly doubt there would be a lot of people willing to pay $50 for a digital movie regardless of when it comes out. Theater prices can stay high and people are willing to pay them because that's the prices they're used to.

Many people see going to the theater as an experience or a social activity if they are going with multiple people so they are willing to pay a high price. Home media can never compete with that. People love home media because it's way cheaper than going to the theater. If they raise the prices they'll lose a lot of customers.

As it currently stands even $20 digital movies aren't selling that well because many people are comparing them to $10-$15 per month subscriptions that give them access to thousands of movies.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You're right, the Theater Owners are the ones that don't want this to happen, but the Studios just want for their Movies to make money. Just like I predict that the cost of Physical Movies will go up, so will the cost of Digital First Run Movies. Like you said to take a family to the Theater cost easily $50+, so how much would a person pay to watch a First Run Streaming Movie on their Home Theater. I would say probably close to that $50 mark, especially for big families. Of course the Theater Owners are going to fight this tooth and nail, but the Release times keep getting shorter and shorter.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Most people are going to be comparing the prices of digital movies to other digital movies so I highly doubt there would be a lot of people willing to pay $50 for a digital movie regardless of when it comes out. Theater prices can stay high and people are willing to pay them because that's the prices they're used to.

Many people see going to the theater as an experience or a social activity if they are going with multiple people so they are willing to pay a high price. Home media can never compete with that. People love home media because it's way cheaper than going to the theater. If they raise the prices they'll lose a lot of customers.

As it currently stands even $20 digital movies aren't selling that well because many people are comparing them to $10-$15 per month subscriptions that give them access to thousands of movies.

Again you are right, the Average Person is not going to pay $50 for the average run of the mill Movie. Just for Major Releases, and like everything else the price will come down as the demand diminishes. If you want to see the Movie on Theater Release, you will have to pay the Premium Price, but unlike the Theater were you see it once this goes into your Library and you can see it unlimited times. Otherwise you wait till it comes down to your Price Level. The Quality of these Movies will have to be Theatrical or better than Disc, so your set up will have to have the Bandwidth and Access.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Again you are right, the Average Person is not going to pay $50 for the average run of the mill Movie. Just for Major Releases, and like everything else the price will come down as the demand diminishes. If you want to see the Movie on Theater Release, you will have to pay the Premium Price, but unlike the Theater were you see it once this goes into your Library and you can see it unlimited times. Otherwise you wait till it comes down to your Price Level. The Quality of these Movies will have to be Theatrical or better than Disc, so your set up will have to have the Bandwidth and Access.

The people who are willing to pay $50 for a movie at launch are likely the same people who would see the movie in theaters multiple times and buy a home release later, so it's still a losing proposition for the studios. Seeing a movie 5-10 times in theaters and buying the disc or digital at launch would equal $70-$120.

For everyone else a $50 digital release would have no effect. Ignoring an overpriced digital release is no different than ignoring an overpriced theatrical release. In both cases people are left waiting for a more reasonably priced home release (whether they want digital or physical). None of this sounds like it would have much effect on physical media.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by veritas

They have to wait 6 more days the horror (though preorders could probably get it sooner )

Let's be honest though. Passengers coming out on digital only a week before physical is a complete anomaly. Standard is 3 weeks early sometimes even 4

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Digital doesn't have a case or cover art at all

Not completely true

[Greyman]

Originally Posted by flyry

Let's be honest though. Passengers coming out on digital only a week before physical is a complete anomaly. Standard is 3 weeks early sometimes even 4

The standard used to be 2 weeks, has it really changed?
Edit:
Fantastic Beasts - 3 weeks
Rogue One 1.5 weeks
Live by night - 2 weeks

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Greyman

The standard used to be 2 weeks, has it really changed?
Edit:
Fantastic Beasts - 3 weeks
Rogue One 1.5 weeks
Live by night - 2 weeks

I guess I mistyped. It's 2 weeks now judging by releases such as Moonlight, Nocturnal Animals, Hacksaw Ridge, Arrival and Doctor Strange.

I thought it was 3 weeks last year (I know The Martian was and The Revenant was 4 weeks)

Either way Passengers is still a bit of a rarity

[Krizzle1]

^Another reason why digital is 'better', digital releases are often earlier than physical.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Krizzle1

^Another reason why digital is 'better', digital releases are often earlier than physical.

It's another arbitrary advantage for digital by deliberately making the physical copies worse. There's no technical reason why the physical copies couldn't launch earlier.

It's just like anti-piracy warnings and trailers before movies. There's no reason why discs have them and streams don't other than the studios deliberately making discs worse in order to push people towards streaming.

[rexcrk]

I'll always prefer physical; being able to actually "own" something.

Digital is convenient though. I like having Vudu on my PS4 and being able to just watch any movies that I have on there like when the Blu-ray includes a digital copy.

But I'll never completely give up physical media until it stops being a thing. I don't like the idea of studios and companies being able to control when and how I can watch something.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Krizzle1

^Another reason why digital is 'better', digital releases are often earlier than physical.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

It's another arbitrary advantage for digital by deliberately making the physical copies worse. There's no technical reason why the physical copies couldn't launch earlier.

It's just like anti-piracy warnings and trailers before movies. There's no reason why discs have them and streams don't other than the studios deliberately making discs worse in order to push people towards streaming.

So why do you think Studios are doing this, is it a Conspiracy Theory? Maybe Digital is just the logical Format, they don't have to spend extra on Production and Marketing on Physical. What I have been saying all along, it's all Digital just keep it Digital!

[veritas]

Originally Posted by alchav21

So why do you think Studios are doing this, is it a Conspiracy Theory? Maybe Digital is just the logical Format, they don't have to spend extra on Production and Marketing on Physical. What I have been saying all along, it's all Digital just keep it Digital!

what extra money do they spend on marketing for physical. Whether its physical or digital they do the same little ads for theaters and for the new bd or digital release. You could argue they have to do more marketing if they removed physical not less as they will need to find other places to get exposure that they used to get for basically free from target, walmart, grocery stores etc.

You could argue production for physical but its honestly a small portion of the total cost. When distribution and production of a book only accounts for around 10% of the cost then discs have to be way under 5% of the total cost. That 5% isn't really saved with digital media either it just takes the form of a supposed commitment to maintain a cloud database for streaming for the consumers life (though they only legally need to keep it up for 2 years).

The only real advantage digital gives studios over physical is stronger control over their product and the removal of the second hand market. The second hard market is brutal for studios because discs last nearly forever if they are taken proper care of.

Consumers do gain convenience with digital which is worth a lot but I have a very hard time putting my faith in studios to not screw me over when they leave loopholes in contracts designed to screw me over and make or save them money (not liable to maintain services after 2 years, may charge rental feels for streaming / redownloading after those 2 years etc).

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by veritas

The only real advantage digital gives studios over physical is stronger control over their product and the removal of the second hand market. The second hard market is brutal for studios because discs last nearly forever if they are taken proper care of.

Exactly right. The studios love digital because it gives them full control. I hate digital becomes it gives the studios full control.

Alchav's argument is that in the future customers will have control over their digital purchases. But the studios have no reason to offer more control to customers and I think it's absurd to support digital now for what it may or may not offer in the future.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by veritas

The only real advantage digital gives studios over physical is stronger control over their product and the removal of the second hand market. The second hard market is brutal for studios because discs last nearly forever if they are taken proper care of.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Exactly right. The studios love digital because it gives them full control. I hate digital becomes it gives the studios full control.

Alchav's argument is that in the future customers will have control over their digital purchases. But the studios have no reason to offer more control to customers and I think it's absurd to support digital now for what it may or may not offer in the future.

There are very few Movies you would want to keep Forever, and all a Studio has to do make your Disc Obsolete is come out with a New Format. Then all you control is an Old Movie Disc!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

There are very few Movies you would want to keep Forever, and all a Studio has to do make your Disc Obsolete is come out with a New Format. Then all you control is an Old Movie Disc!

What? There are hundreds of discs I would want to keep forever. Also, a disc is not going to be outdated for a long long time. I could still still get a VHS player if I want for goodness sake. Look how long I have had access to DVD and we have moved onto 4K.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

And you can keep saying it since it means nothing as far as the main difference. It's a non argument except in the narrowest semantic sense
Not a single person in this entire thread that I'm aware of has argued with you that the information is anything other than 1 and 0's.

It's all about quality/content which the gap may or may not be narrowing for those 10-20% with highend internet. Even if that was equal, then it's about control, ownership, and cost.

Right now for my situation -- disc wins quality by a mile, content by further, control and ownership is even further on the side of disc and cost can't be argued since it's apples and straw bales. I don't rent discs and I can't own digital (at best I can pay a fee to borrow it).

I wouldn't worry. The studios will be sweating with the latest Digital HD sales figures. They could flatline this year. That's why they are scraping the barrel offering Digital earlier than Bluray and trying to reach mega bucks deals to screen films a few weeks after the cinema. It's the last throw of the dice before the inevitable disc for collectors, subscription for everyone else future.