Fantastic Four (2015)

[toddly6666]

Moviefan,
Besides FF4, did you follow any of those superhero comics of the ones I listed for you?

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

Moviefan,
Besides FF4, did you follow any of those superhero comics of the ones I listed for you?

The main comics I followed as a kid were Superman, Batman, the F4, and to a lesser extent Spider-Man.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

The main comics I followed as a kid were Superman, Batman, the F4, and to a lesser extent Spider-Man.

So you are okay with New Goblin and Venom in Spidey 3?

Moviefan, it's okay to be wrong. Im wrong about things all the time. If FF4 turns out good, you can still see it and say that you liked it. It's a nice feeling to eventually like something that you thought you were going to hate. And just because you have already chosen to be passionately against Trank's FF4, Im afraid that you may miss out on a good film just because you are afraid of so many people in here that will tell you, "I told you so" or "you were wrong." You shouldnt feel bad about changing your opinion about things. It doesnt make you a weaker person but rather an open-minded one

And anyway, I am personally curious now what you will think of the film whether it be good or bad. I'll send you $10 to your paypal account if you see the film and express what you think of it.

[StingingVelvet]

I'm not sure what the point of this debate is. Moviefan and the others have made it pretty clear they will never be happy unless this is a super faithful comic adaptation, which it is NOT, so there is nothing left to say. It's a failure for them, sure, but very few people are going to have the same priorities.

When the box office returns come in we'll see how the mainstream audience reacts, which either way, hit or bomb, will have NOTHING to do with how faithful it was to the comic.

[MPeriolat]

Actually, starting to seem the box office is going to be completely irrelevant to Fox. They have the rights for another seven years, there's a sequel in the works and discussion of either a crossover or tie in to X-Men. So, like it or not, this is going to be FF for the foreseeable future. I'm just not interested in the movie, for a variety of reasons, and will not be seeing it. But regretfully, it's staying put no matter what any of us do.

[djakrse]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

So you are okay with New Goblin and Venom in Spidey 3?

Moviefan, it's okay to be wrong. Im wrong about things all the time. If FF4 turns out good, you can still see it and say that you liked it. It's a nice feeling to eventually like something that you thought you were going to hate. And just because you have already chosen to be passionately against Trank's FF4, Im afraid that you may miss out on a good film just because you are afraid of so many people in here that will tell you, "I told you so" or "you were wrong." You shouldnt feel bad about changing your opinion about things. It doesnt make you a weaker person but rather an open-minded one

And anyway, I am personally curious now what you will think of the film whether it be good or bad. I'll send you $10 to your paypal account if you see the film and express what you think of it.

Uhh, as everyone knows, I totally think Avengers Age of Ultron is going to suck big time and refuse to go see it. However, if someone was willing to pay for my way in, I might be willing to share my opinion on it. I will, however, also require money for popcorn and a drink, because I just can't bear to sit through it without refreshments to keep my spirit up. Just throwing that out there.

J/k of course, what a deal!

[Bolty]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

What they should have done with the property is reboot the cast but set the film with an experienced Fantastic Four. Universal/Marvel did it with The Incredible Hulk. While the origin story was fairly relevant in the 1960s, we didn't need a back-to-the-beginning telling of their story.

The entire reason they are re-telling the origin is to have the movie NOT be a super hero movie. They have been ashamed of the roots of this property since day 1.

Every trailer of every comic based movie so far has shown the characters as recognizable "super-heroes" at some point.
This movie is going to be all origin--their version of an origin that is all character driven and a not costumed hero story.

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

And anyway, I am personally curious now what you will think of the film whether it be good or bad. I'll send you $10 to your paypal account if you see the film and express what you think of it.

You can send me about $30. There are a few movies I just know I'm going to hate coming out.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

So you are okay with New Goblin and Venom in Spidey 3?

New Goblin, yes; Venom, no. Raimi wrote his original screenplay with the intent of wrapping up Harry's story, so him reacting to the truth about Norman was a natural progression. The Sandman was also a great character, and Thomas Haden Church nailed that role perfectly.

The film went awry for one very big reason: studio interference. Back then, Marvel hadn't founded its own film division yet, and Avi Arad was running things. Raimi was loyal to the '60s and '70s characters, but Arad reportedly pressured him to include Venom "for the fans". I even read once that he told Raimi, "We've already let you do it your way twice; its time to return the favor." Sadly, Raimi caved, and the film quickly became a target for jokes instead of respect. It made the most of those three due to the brand, but I can't think of anyone who believes it to be the best of them (that honor usually goes to "Spider-Man 2").

Moviefan, it's okay to be wrong. Im wrong about things all the time. If FF4 turns out good, you can still see it and say that you liked it. It's a nice feeling to eventually like something that you thought you were going to hate.

I had that experience almost two years ago, with a little movie called "Man of Steel"; heard of it?

And just because you have already chosen to be passionately against Trank's FF4, I'm afraid that you may miss out on a good film just because you are afraid of so many people in here that will tell you, "I told you so" or "you were wrong." You shouldn't feel bad about changing your opinion about things. It doesn't make you a weaker person but rather an open-minded one.

My reasoning's very simple: I don't like the creative choices they've made for the film. So long as this version of the tale continues on-screen, I will not be a part of it.

And anyway, I am personally curious now what you will think of the film whether it be good or bad. I'll send you $10 to your paypal account if you see the film and express what you think of it.

No, thanks.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm not sure what the point of this debate is. Moviefan and the others have made it pretty clear they will never be happy unless this is a super faithful comic adaptation, which it is NOT, so there is nothing left to say. It's a failure for them, sure, but very few people are going to have the same priorities.

When the box office returns come in we'll see how the mainstream audience reacts, which either way, hit or bomb, will have NOTHING to do with how faithful it was to the comic.

Here's the thing about internet fanboys (doesn't just apply to those who like comic books): If something comes along that doesn't match their expectations of what it should be, then they will hate it. If it's not based on anything they're familiar with (or if it's not based on anything at all), they will lash out or simply dismiss it outright. Since the rise of the online and social media culture they've become perhaps the most reactionary of all audiences.

"If you're not like us, if you do not bow to the whim of the almighty hive and comply with these rules, you are not good enough for us and you will be ended."

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

No, thanks.

How about $50? If it's not about the money, then why dont you go see this film? Do you really have something so much more important to do with 2 hours? Are you a "I wasted two hours of my precious life" type person? Is it quite possible that you are too stubborn to go see it since you have already said you wouldnt see it to everyone? Do you think you'll be seen as less of a person if you go see it?

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

How about $50? If it's not about the money, then why dont you go see this film? Do you really have something so much more important to do with 2 hours? Are you a "I wasted two hours of my precious life" type person? Is it quite possible that you are too stubborn to go see it since you have already said you wouldn't see it to everyone? Do you think you'll be seen as less of a person if you go see it?

I will not be seeing this film for one reason only, and here it is...it doesn't represent the Fantastic Four to me. Instead, its a lame attempt for Fox to keep the rights away from Marvel, which will sadly keep fans of the original comics (like me) from getting an accurate adaptation...unless it flops so badly those at Fox are left with no choice. That's what I'm hoping for; its has nothing to do with ill will toward anyone. I just want to see the most accurate page-to-screen translation possible, of the "first family of comics". Tim Story got close with his first effort, but tried doing too much at once with his second one. I'd like to see someone like Gore Verbinski, Andrew Adamson, or Jon Turteltaub take on the franchise; they've all worked with Disney before, and they've all done fantasy-adventure films. I also think they'd probably have much more respect for the originals, than Trank or the Fox execs.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

I will not be seeing this film for one reason only, and here it is...it doesn't represent the Fantastic Four to me. Instead, its a lame attempt for Fox to keep the rights away from Marvel, which will sadly keep fans of the original comics (like me) from getting an accurate adaptation...unless it flops so badly those at Fox are left with no choice. That's what I'm hoping for; its has nothing to do with ill will toward anyone. I just want to see the most accurate page-to-screen translation possible, of the "first family of comics". Tim Story got close with his first effort, but tried doing too much at once with his second one. I'd like to see someone like Gore Verbinski, Andrew Adamson, or Jon Turteltaub take on the franchise; they've all worked with Disney before, and they've all done fantasy-adventure films. I also think they'd probably have much more respect for the originals, than Trank or the Fox execs.

Damn. If Story's attempt was "close" to what you're looking for, then I am terrified. That was AWFUL!

[kobol]

Originally Posted by djakrse

Uhh, as everyone knows, I totally think Avengers Age of Ultron is going to suck big time and refuse to go see it. However, if someone was willing to pay for my way in, I might be willing to share my opinion on it. I will, however, also require money for popcorn and a drink, because I just can't bear to sit through it without refreshments to keep my spirit up. Just throwing that out there.

J/k of course, what a deal!

I'm curious, why do you think Avengers: Age of Ultron will be bad?

[djakrse]

Originally Posted by kobol

I'm curious, why do you think Avengers: Age of Ultron will be bad?

Shh, this is just between us. I actually think AoU is going to be amazing, but was trying to get a similar sweet deal like toddly was offering mf2k4.

[L-Rouge]

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

The rather odd thing is, that many folks appear to be furious that Johnny Storm will be black but I can't really recall any especially bitter internet complaints about the Kingpin or Nick Fury.

There was a storm with regards to Idris Alba as Heimdall from Thor. vitriolic levels.

Also at the potential of said actor becoming James Bond (re sony hack release).

on a personal level I think Idris has incredible charisma and would make a great James Bond and Heimdall is my favourite character from Thor. Though I am not precious on Material.

[Bolty]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Damn. If Story's attempt was "close" to what you're looking for, then I am terrified. That was AWFUL!

Story's version was an awful attempt at being faithful.
Now we might an awful or awesome attempt at being unfaithful.

I hope someday we get an awesome faithful version.

[toddly6666]

What do people exactly not like about Tim Story's FF4s?

I see more positives than negatives:


POSITIVES
- both entertaining with tight editing and no slow moments
- well cast (especially Johnny Storm and The Thing)
- costumes look like they were in the comic books
- Doctor Doom is a satisfying villain (especially compared to other Marvel villains post-FF4 movies)
- Silver Surfer was amazing
- a nice balance of humor and seriousness
- the action scenes were memorable
- While I can't say that Sue Storm has been an interesting character from the comics, Jessica Alba is always nice to watch.

NEGATIVES
- Galactus storm cloud
- Not using Super Skrull as a character but taking advantage of his powers in the second film

The movies have dated well and I like them a lot more than I used to. The storylines in both films are nothing special yet there is nothing bad about them either. What superhero movies have good storylines besides Nolan's Batmans and Watchmen? None of them - Avengers and Gaurdians of the Galaxy may be awesome movies but their storylines are as memorable as the FF4 movies, meaning nothing special.

[kobol]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

What do people exactly not like about Tim Story's FF4s?

I see more positives than negatives:


POSITIVES
- both entertaining with tight editing and no slow moments
- well cast (especially Johnny Storm and The Thing)
- costumes look like they were in the comic books
- Doctor Doom is a satisfying villain (especially compared to other Marvel villains post-FF4 movies)
- Silver Surfer was amazing
- a nice balance of humor and seriousness
- the action scenes were memorable
- While I can't say that Sue Storm has been an interesting character from the comics, Jessica Alba is always nice to watch.

NEGATIVES
- Galactus storm cloud
- Not using Super Skrull as a character but taking advantage of his powers in the second film

The movies have dated well and I like them a lot more than I used to. The storylines in both films are nothing special yet there is nothing bad about them either. What superhero movies have good storylines besides Nolan's Batmans and Watchmen? None of them - Avengers and Gaurdians of the Galaxy may be awesome movies but their storylines are as memorable as the FF4 movies, meaning nothing special.

I thought that all of the cast were truly atrocious (except Chiklis & Evans) especially Gruffudd as Reed and McMahon as Doom who were terribly miscast.

The F.F. 2005 felt to cartoonish and seemed to be aimed squarely at children (not that there is anything wrong with that, but why not aim higher?)

The film also felt too awkward and poorly directed to me, especially the action scenes.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

What do people exactly not like about Tim Story's FF4s?

I see more positives than negatives:


POSITIVES
- both entertaining with tight editing and no slow moments
- well cast (especially Johnny Storm and The Thing)
- costumes look like they were in the comic books
- Doctor Doom is a satisfying villain (especially compared to other Marvel villains post-FF4 movies)
- Silver Surfer was amazing
- a nice balance of humor and seriousness
- the action scenes were memorable
- While I can't say that Sue Storm has been an interesting character from the comics, Jessica Alba is always nice to watch.

NEGATIVES
- Galactus storm cloud
- Not using Super Skrull as a character but taking advantage of his powers in the second film

The movies have dated well and I like them a lot more than I used to. The storylines in both films are nothing special yet there is nothing bad about them either. What superhero movies have good storylines besides Nolan's Batmans and Watchmen? None of them - Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy may be awesome movies but their storylines are as memorable as the FF4 movies, meaning nothing special.

Here's my "pros and cons" list for those films...

Fantastic Four (2005) - Pros

• Respect for the original comics
• Simple yet effective origin story
• Brief yet exciting final battle
• Awesome effects for Human Torch, Invisible Woman, and Dr. Doom
• Michael Chiklis as Ben Grimm
• Chris Evans as Johnny Storm
• Very accurate "Thing" costume design
• Impressive musical score

Fantastic Four (2005) - Cons

• Ioan Gruffudd as Reed Richards (too young back then)
• Hokey "stretching" effects for Mr. Fantastic
• Jessica Alba as Susan Storm (not credible as scientist)
• Sue needing to strip for invisibility (cheap titillation)
• Forced love triangle between Reed, Sue, and Victor
• Plot hole about the power requirements for Reed's machine
• Bad writing for Victor (too many similar scenes)

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer - Pros

• Michael Chiklis and Chris Evans returned
• Effects still mostly impressive
• Silver Surfer very well designed
• Laurence Fishburne's voice work for Surfer
• Nod to famous comic story with Stan Lee at the wedding
• Funny moment when Johnny & Ben switch powers

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer - Cons

• Reed hiding his work from Sue, and lying to cover it up
• Reed allowing Johnny to pressure him over that lie, and joining the dancers on stage
• Jessica Alba's makeup and hair making her true appearance even more obvious
• Sue using passive-aggressive "my party was better" attitude
• Sue pinning Reed between force-fields during an argument
• Sue and Johnny switching powers
• Johnny getting everyone's powers at the end
• Victor being brought back (way too soon)
• Galactus being a cloud

.....that's all I can think of for now; haven't seen the films in a few years.