Isn't IMAX digital native 1.90:1? I know the 15/70 film is 1.43:1, but I thought the digital cameras were 1.90:1.
I know the advertising for Wonder Woman 1984 mentions "IMAX film cameras", but I'm not sure the actual film cameras were even used on this one. I imagine that IMAX pushes their digital cameras on anyone who isn't Nolan, but I could be wrong.
EDIT: I see web sites touting that the film was shot entirely on film stock, including with the IMAX MSM 9802 film camera, but I'm still a bit suspicious regarding the IMAX bits, especially the way they apparently ended up in the film.
They definitely used Imax film cameras for at least some shots, since you can literally see Patty Jenkins directing the girl right in front of one of them in one of the publicity stills.
1.90 does happen to be the digital imax ratio, but I suspect the reason the taller 1.44:1 native shots were framed down was to “split the difference” with the 2.20:1 65mm used for the dialogue shots.
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Originally Posted by CHONK!
Also, it said 4K UHD on the HBO Max title screen for WW84, but it was not a 4K stream. Not sure what happened there.
It says that on every screen regardless of device, it just also says in small grey letters something to the effect of “HBO Max will play this at your device’s highest capabilities.”
Wow, outside of a few good character moments between Steve & Diana this movie was hot garbage. Couldn’t believe how bad the CGI was in the first quarter of the film.
First time watching anything on HBO MAX and was completely unimpressed by the stream from a technical standpoint too. AQ was VERY weak. Had to crank the volume and it still lacked punch. PQ had lots of compression artifacts and the colors were too blown out. Possibly the Director’s intention to match the era? I dunno, but I disliked this enough to not want to add the film to my library and I’m a huge DC fan. That said I really want to revisit this on UHD for no other reason than to see if there’s an improvement in the presentation. Praying Snyder’s Justice League fares better.
I realize I’m in the minority in actually liking the film. But here it goes. I genuinely had a great time watching it and I thought the cheesiness made it more enjoyable, actually positively strengthening the themes and style instead of hurting the film. But opinions and all that I suppose.
Film Grade: B+
It really feels like a palette cleanser after so many unwelcome mishaps during the year. It’s not perfect, mind you, but it has so much radiating positivity throughout it, that, at least on the big screen, it’s hard to not get carried away by Diana’s faith in goodness. It’s definitely cheesy but it has that, and please excuse the pun, wonder from Saturday morning cartoons which do make justice to Wonder Woman’s character. It will make you feel like a kid again.
Some people might not enjoy that, and admittedly there are a few unarguable missteps. Other than the political overtones (which are not very subtle) the film clocks at two hours and a half, and it still did not feel like enough time was given to all the characters, especially to Barbara/Cheetah. Even though the time we do get with her is pretty great (and her’s and Diana’s complex relationship was very compelling), her character felt a bit shortchanged to give Max Lord’s character more time to develop him further. Honestly, he was not a bad villain, and Pedro Pascal did a great job with the character, but Cheetah just felt more interesting, bouncing off Diana really well. So I wish they had spent less time with Max Lord and given that time to Barbara.
Another complaint, but which I do not agree affects the film negatively, is the low amount of action in it. True, there’s less action here than there is in the first Wonder Woman, but honestly I thought the story did just fine without it. There was no action just for action’s sake (unlike the first film), and even though there is not a ton of it, the action that is there is executed beautifully. It feels epic with high stakes, amazing camera work, and it is overall pretty satisfying. If you are not invested in the characters then it will fall short for you though. The fact is a lot of people will watch it on their TVs instead of on a proper big screen. I say this because this will negatively affect the emotional impact since it just hits better on the big screen than it does at home. Not just the action itself but the emotional substance of the story which is really what makes the action in this film better and more exciting. And it is pretty frustrating because I do think this is probably the primary reason people will feel dissatisfied with the action. It’s just not the same watching on a TV at home. But it is what it is.
Even though the two villains seems to be competing for time, that is not the case with Steve Trevor (Chris Pine). The film finds a good way to bring him back, and even though he is not in the whole film (but is there for a good chunk of it), his character did not feel shortchanged. I was somewhat worried about how they would bring him back without him feeling superfluous to the story, but thankfully those worries were dissuaded. His character really works in three ways for the film. First, the romance between him and Diana is great. They have excellent chemistry and it is very sweet seeing them together again even amidst world-ending threats. Second, his character works as a catalyst to help mature Diana even further and grow her not just as a person but as a superhero as well. And third, he helps Diana while she attempts to save the world. He might not have superpowers, but even with that and the fact it’s not his movie, he still stands his own, both as a person and as a soldier.
Overall, it is probably not better than the first film (pending more viewings), but I think this is more due to the story juggling one too many characters when a bit more focus on less of them would have benefited the story better. Even considering that, however, I think the film is, and again, please excuse the unintended pun, wonderful. It’s colorful, it looks beautiful, it has great directing, excellent acting across the board, and it is very emotionally charged to the point that I thought the action had a better impact here compared to the first’s even though there is less of it in this one. I really wish Warner Brothers had waited at least a few weeks before making it available to stream since it is just so much better on the big screen and with an audience. I think the story makes great justice to Wonder Woman’s character and what she stands for. There is so much the film gets right that the little it gets wrong hardly affects one’s enjoyment while watching it. It is definitely a worthy trip to the cinema even if you can stream it at home.
I'm sorry but you have can't a movie that is three-quarters cheese and mirth and then tries to inject meaning and morality with a 'powerful' montage. A tonal MESS. I thought the third act of Wonder Wonder (2017) muddled its third act and final message but at least that ending was earned and the tone was consistent. I can't believe WW (2017) and WW84 (2020) were directed by the same person.
The only reason I will buy this when it is released is that I'm a completist otherwise I wouldn't touch this movie with a barge pole.
this is a bad movie. And if you do like it, then I question your dedication to Sparkle Motion!
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Originally Posted by spider-neil
three-quarters cheese and mirth
I'm beginning to think that, regardless of this film's quality, there is no way it is going to be as entertaining to me as this thread. You guys crack me up.
I'm beginning to think that, regardless of this film's quality, there is no way it is going to be as entertaining to me as this thread. You guys crack me up.
WW84 has more cheese than Donner's Superman. And to be clear, that doesn't make a movie bad but the movie should attempt to be tonally consistent.
Yeah I can still buy that the world doesn't really know about her. What I cannot believe happened was the continuity break about her training in the beginning of the film. Did patty just forget what happened in the first film or something?!?!? That's wild.
What's the continuity break? That her mother didn't want her to train in the first one? Competing in an athletic event is very different from training to be a warrior.
They definitely used Imax film cameras for at least some shots, since you can literally see Patty Jenkins directing the girl right in front of one of them in one of the publicity stills.
1.90 does happen to be the digital imax ratio, but I suspect the reason the taller 1.44:1 native shots were framed down was to “split the difference” with the 2.20:1 65mm used for the dialogue shots.
2.20? There was no 2.20 65mm on WW84. If you're referring to Tenet that was mos def finished out to 1.44 for the native IMAX stuff, what we're wondering is why WW84 didn't get a similar finish seeing as they did actually shoot some of it on native 15-perf IMAX as well. But it seems as if there was no concession to 1.44 for the finish of WW84's IMAX scenes, despite what the IMDB sez, and that 1.90 was always gonna be the final IMAX ratio for this show, hence the presentation as such on video rather than having it be 1.78 like Tenet.
I'm sorry but you have can't a movie that is three-quarters cheese and mirth and then tries to inject meaning and morality with a 'powerful' montage. A tonal MESS. I thought the third act of Wonder Wonder (2017) muddled its third act and final message but at least that ending was earned and the tone was consistent. I can't believe WW (2017) and WW84 (2020) were directed by the same person.
The only reason I will buy this when it is released is that I'm a completist otherwise I wouldn't touch this movie with a barge pole.
But if you buy it, you’re speaking with your wallet, and that’s all that matters to them
If you want to let em know it sucks, you do that by NOT buying it
My whole family had their mouths open at shock on how this got as far as it did in production, from the cheesy bride rescue, to the horrible running shots, to the CG fight at the end.
I thought WW 1984 was alos jar dropping in how bad the mall scene was. The only thing it was missing is a shot of Richard Pryor Skiing down the side of the building, which would of actually made it better.
I was not expecting 1980's level cheese in a 2020 movie.
I wanted to like this, but this is the Superman IV of the current DC movies.
As you say, it genuinely felt like this was some cheesy '80s superhero movie at times, and not in some knowingly ironic way. What didn't help was that it was shot in the UK (certain obvious locations aside) so there are loads of supporting players putting on dodgy American accents, I started getting Superman II flashbacks to the kid on Planet Houston who goes "please don't hurt my daddy!" in a plummy middle-class accent.
Now, Superman The Movie was also shot this way (US locations, UK interiors) and I still regard it as The Greatest Comic Book Movie Ever Made™, it's so magical in every respect that it transcends such things. But when the movie feels like a bad parody as WW84 does then this stuff sticks out much more, including the score which literally sounds like some low-rent Superman rip-off (ironic considering that Hans Zimmer has actually scored a Superman movie which paid no heed to Williams' work and was all the better for it).
I did still enjoy the movie, eventually, as the theme of responsibility is a constant heartbeat and I thought the ending was quite powerful in that respect, not just for CBMs but for the real world as it exists at the moment. As I said upthread, this is why I enjoyed the quieter talky bits far more than the risible action scenes.
They definitely used Imax film cameras for at least some shots, since you can literally see Patty Jenkins directing the girl right in front of one of them in one of the publicity stills.
1.90 does happen to be the digital imax ratio, but I suspect the reason the taller 1.44:1 native shots were framed down was to “split the difference” with the 2.20:1 65mm used for the dialogue shots.
Well, just because there is a photo of an IMAX film camera on set, that doesn't mean that it was used. I mean, you would assume it was, but certainly, that's not a guarantee that film shot with that camera actually ends up in the finished movie, anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D
2.20? There was no 2.20 65mm on WW84. If you're referring to Tenet that was mos def finished out to 1.44 for the native IMAX stuff, what we're wondering is why WW84 didn't get a similar finish seeing as they did actually shoot some of it on native 15-perf IMAX as well. But it seems as if there was no concession to 1.44 for the finish of WW84's IMAX scenes, despite what the IMDB sez, and that 1.90 was always gonna be the final IMAX ratio for this show, hence the presentation as such on video rather than having it be 1.78 like Tenet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pieter V
15/70 IMAX cameras plus digital cameras:
[Show spoiler]
Pieter, I don't see anything in this quotation about IMAX 15/70. Further, the phrase used here is:
Quote:
The bulk of WW84 was shot on Kodak Vision3 50D 5203, 250D 5207, and 500T 5219, creating a distinct jump in resolution between the IMAX 1.90:1 aspect ratio and the 2.39:1 of anamorphic 35mm, and necessitating a 4K finish to ease those transitions.
which again makes it sound like the plan here was to frame at the IMAX digital AR of 1.90:1. Now, why shoot 15/70 film if you are not going to make use of the 1.43:1 aspect ratio? 1.90:1 is a bizarre ratio to use if you are simply cropping 1.43:1 footage, which in that case should obviously be cropped to 1.78:1...unless you also have IMAX digital footage there in native 1.90:1 as well. Already the article admits that an underwater portion of an IMAX sequence had to be shot digitally with an Alexa 65, So it sounds to me like, at best, the IMAX sequences are a combination of 15/70 and digital or IMAX digital, with probable emphasis on the latter.
Then again, I also understand that IMAX has some control over how their tech is used in these films, so maybe the bulk of it is 15/70, but they didn't like how it looked, so they cropped it all to 1.90:1 themselves?
That's what I've done. Won't pay $30 for a rental. Crave has HBO Max content but won't add WW84 for another 3 months. So, I won't renew it for another year. Just wait until the content catches up and binge it.
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