Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread - Page 143 - Blu-ray Forum

tob · 03-19-2017, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So why are we seeing such little growth then? No one has addressed that yet. Q4 which obviously includes Christmas time, and the format couldn't boost those figures. Don't you see what a massive deal that is? Let's get real here. It's popular because codes from Blurays are so cheap. Do you honestly think if disc died tomorrow, Vudu would be doing ok? The genie is out of the bottle, subscription with loads of content wins the day. There is no going back to buying individual films for good money after disc. Disc is the end. That's why it will survive. Even many Digital obsessives have said they don't believe Digital copies have much value. It's great for you that prices are so cheap, but you need disc to have a future for that to remain the same. You are being fed bullshit if you are reading that Digital is thriving, Streaming is thriving, Digital HD? Nope, sorry.

By the way, the U.K is jumping straight to Subscription along with their discs. Our biggest selling EST though is the Sky tv service which offers Digital HD but comes with a DVD also. That's followed by ITunes. It is not UV compatible but no one cares here. UV has failed to take off here IMO. In fact, it has failed to take off in many major countries I understand. Not exactly a healthy situation in 2017. A sign of things to come in the U.S perhaps?

fgomike · 03-19-2017, 08:31 PM

I am purchasing more and more digital copies through Amazon, Google or Vudu. I don't like iTunes because as far as I can tell, you cannot stream titles oniTunes. Unless the blu ray has features that you can't get on a digital copy like director commentary or is a movie that is a collectable, I am more likely to go digital.

Space and cost is becoming a prime reason. Most movies, if you wait a bit, will be a lot cheaper to purchase digitally. I guess you can say the same about blu ray or dvd titles as well. Digital just seems cheaper quicker

randian · 03-19-2017, 08:34 PM

Why would a digital copy that isn't selling well (or any thing, really) be removed by the studio? Even with redundant discs storage costs are trivial, maybe $1/year/movie. Any movie that can sell 5-10 copies a year is worth keeping even if that won't measurably move the company's profit meter. The most miserably terrible movie can do that.

SarahS · 03-19-2017, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randian

Why would a digital copy that isn't selling well (or any thing, really) be removed by the studio? Even with redundant discs storage costs are trivial, maybe $1/year/movie. Any movie that can sell 5-10 copies a year is worth keeping even if that won't measurably move the company's profit meter. The most miserably terrible movie can do that.

They are not being removed. Never lost a film in over two years. In fact you can get films in HD that are not even released on Blu Ray yet. Example Urban Cowboy

tobz · 03-19-2017, 10:28 PM

As I understand it, with Digital it is not the studio that keeps the film up it is the store that does so, ie Apple, Google etc. I would think that if a film is not selling well (I'm sure there is plenty on iTunes atm that arn't but they are still there) they are not going to worry about removing it. It takes up so little space on Apple's or Googles servers that I doubt they would go to all the trouble. I also don't think its affecting its profit mergers enough if at all to justify putting the effort to remove it.

By trouble I don't mean deleting it, I am referring to the bad PR that the company will get. There as a case a few years ago where some Christmas specials were removed from iTunes but after enough people complained and was picked up by news outlets the specials were back on iTunes for people who purchased to view.

PenguinMaster · 03-19-2017, 10:55 PM

There are two possible scenarios with digital:
A) Some movies will become unavailable.
B) Every studio/provider will support every movie they've ever released forever.

You're insane if you think option B will happen.

How many times do I have to keep pointing out the thousands of digital movies that have already been removed? Here's just a few examples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

SarahS · 03-19-2017, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

There are two possible scenarios with digital:
A) Some movies will become unavailable.
B) Every studio/provider will support every movie they've ever released forever.

You're insane if you think option B will happen.

How many times do I have to keep pointing out the thousands of digital movies that have already been removed? Here's just a few examples.

How many from Vudu? Also not insane as nobody I know that has Vudu has ever lost a film going back to 2012

PenguinMaster · 03-19-2017, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahS

How many from Vudu? Also not insane as nobody I know that has Vudu has ever lost a film going back to 2012

I have no idea how many have been removed from Vudu, they don't list the movies they no longer offer. Though none of the movies I linked are available on Vudu or iTunes either.

Is 5 years of not losing a film sufficient evidence that nothing will be lost for the next 50 years?

ArmyOfDarknessAW · 03-19-2017, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

There are two possible scenarios with digital:
A) Some movies will become unavailable.
B) Every studio/provider will support every movie they've ever released forever.

You're insane if you think option B will happen.

How many times do I have to keep pointing out the thousands of digital movies that have already been removed? Here's just a few examples.

Not trying to argue a point either way. Just want to point out it being unavailable to purchase does not mean it is unavailable to people who have already purchased it. I've had movies I "own" that aren't available for purchase that are still available to watch.

PenguinMaster · 03-19-2017, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

Not trying to argue a point either way. Just want to point out it being unavailable to purchase does not mean it is unavailable to people who have already purchased it. I've had movies I "own" that aren't available for purchase that are still available to watch.

I recognize that but I think both issues are equally important. No one should have the power to say no one new can ever buy a specific title again. There shouldn't be a time limit on when titles are available.

alchav21 · 03-19-2017, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randian

Why would a digital copy that isn't selling well (or any thing, really) be removed by the studio? Even with redundant discs storage costs are trivial, maybe $1/year/movie. Any movie that can sell 5-10 copies a year is worth keeping even if that won't measurably move the company's profit meter. The most miserably terrible movie can do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

There are two possible scenarios with digital:
A) Some movies will become unavailable.
B) Every studio/provider will support every movie they've ever released forever.

You're insane if you think option B will happen.

How many times do I have to keep pointing out the thousands of digital movies that have already been removed? Here's just a few examples.

The Movies Penguin is talking about are from Independents, and very few people care about them. Like you I have not seen anything disappear from my Collection, but if you want Obscure Movies then collect them with Disc. Just don't say our Movies will not be there, because all my 500 Digital Movies are still there.

PenguinMaster · 03-20-2017, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Movies Penguin is talking about are from Independents, and very few people care about them. Like you I have not seen anything disappear from my Collection, but if you want Obscure Movies then collect them with Disc.

If they were all available on disc than I wouldn't have problem with digital. But the rising popularity of digital is causing far less titles to be released on disc. Which in turn means that all of those titles that aren't on disc can disappear forever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchav21

Just don't say our Movies will not be there, because all my 500 Digital Movies are still there.

None of us can predict whether titles will remain in digital collections or not. 5 years of collecting isn't enough time to provide sufficient evidence. But the providers have the ability and legal right to take away your purchases. And the terms of service explicitly state that titles can be removed from your collection. You just need to be aware that it can happen.

randian · 03-20-2017, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

There are two possible scenarios with digital:
A) Some movies will become unavailable.
B) Every studio/provider will support every movie they've ever released forever.

You're insane if you think option B will happen.

What does this "support" cost? I would argue it's functionally zero and not even worth accounting for once the encode is done and uploaded since they don't run the front end.

I'd bet the disappearance of these titles is a matter of licensing expiration or dispute, not support, and that they haven't reappeared because it looks like too much work or too much money to fix the rights issues. What was The Wall's license for the music like, for example? It's more than 35 years old at this point. Rights to distribute and sell usually revert to the original artist after 25-30 years and a studio can't grant a license (such as one for a movie) for longer than they themselves have one.

PenguinMaster · 03-20-2017, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randian

What does this "support" cost? I would argue it's functionally zero and not even worth accounting for once the encode is done and uploaded since they don't run the front end.

I'd bet the disappearance of these titles is a matter of licensing expiration or dispute, not support, and that they haven't reappeared because it looks like too much work or too much money to fix the rights issues. What was The Wall's license for the music like, for example? It's more than 35 years old at this point. Rights to distribute and sell usually revert to the original artist after 25-30 years and a studio can't grant a license (such as one for a movie) for longer than they themselves have one.

Does it really matter why they disappeared?

Neither licensing disputes nor anything else that can cause digital titles to be removed can prevent physical titles from being redistributed forever. The content owners have absolutely no involvement with buying and selling used discs.

tobz · 03-20-2017, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

There are two possible scenarios with digital:
A) Some movies will become unavailable.
B) Every studio/provider will support every movie they've ever released forever.

You're insane if you think option B will happen.

How many times do I have to keep pointing out the thousands of digital movies that have already been removed? Here's just a few examples.

Are these movies unavailable for purchase or unavailable completely? ie If they were purchased while available does that person still have access to them?

PenguinMaster · 03-20-2017, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobz

Are these movies unavailable for purchase or unavailable completely? ie If they were purchased while available does that person still have access to them?

Since you're asking that question I'm assuming that you haven't purchased any of those titles. They are therefore completely unavailable to you.

ArmyOfDarknessAW · 03-20-2017, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I recognize that but I think both issues are equally important. No one should have the power to say no one new can ever buy a specific title again. There shouldn't be a time limit on when titles are available.

Probably 99% of the time the movies come back into being available. They'll drop off during an HBO run or when some other cable channel has the rights to run it at the moment. I know Spy just became available again to rent/buy after being absent for awhile. Granted things like that happening may or may not be somebody's idea of great. Just saying they generally come back to being available.

I tried the whole digital only thing for awhile and it wasn't for me. However it's a fantastic supplement for me personally. I watch at least one movie with my parents every single week and let's just say they aren't the best at deciding what to watch. I used to bring a handful of movies with me and sometimes none would be what my dad would feel like watching. Now I just let them browse the VUDU library and pick something (be it a rental or something I own). It makes it easier on me not having to hope I brought the right movie and it gives them more choice. Same kinda situation when I'm hanging at our friends place. Sometimes watching a movie comes into the plans and I don't exactly travel with my Blu-ray collection in hand. When I'm home absolutely the Blu-ray disc is the way to go (just finished Star Trek Beyond on 4K BD) however away from home the digital option works better. I have my parents, friends, us, and in-laws all using and sharing my VUDU account...Works wonders.

Too many people get hung up on either side of this when they both have pros and cons. With how many movies have UV codes you can buy the disc and still maintain a strong digital library for those instances that it comes in handy.

PenguinMaster · 03-20-2017, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

Probably 99% of the time the movies come back into being available. They'll drop off during an HBO run or when some other cable channel has the rights to run it at the moment. I know Spy just became available again to rent/buy after being absent for awhile. Granted things like that happening may or may not be somebody's idea of great. Just saying they generally come back to being available.

That's only true with the popular movies. Most movies that disappear go largely unnoticed. They weren't profitable so no one feels the need to resolve whatever issue that caused them to be removed in the first place and bring them back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

Too many people get hung up on either side of this when they both have pros and cons. With how many movies have UV codes you can buy the disc and still maintain a strong digital library for those instances that it comes in handy.

If that's how everyone got their digital movies then there wouldn't be a problem. People buying combos can't possibly lead to anything only being released digitally.

Steedeel · 03-20-2017, 10:23 AM

My concern is film itself. The industry seems intent on ******* it up for those that love it. I just think Digital is an enabler. Like the interactive tv example I talked about. My fear is that interactive tv and film will replace linear versions. It would be a total nightmare as I don't want to interact with my movies, I just want to watch them. However, some serious money is being invested in this area and film directors and companies alike are getting involved (MGM for one)
It's experiments like this, that will end up screwing us over.
At a time when we should be celebrating 4K and the advancements in tech, I actually can't help but fear the shite that is around the corner.

huskerbear · 03-20-2017, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steedeel

You have sold me. That is incredible and well worth giving up quality for.

That's the thing though, most people don't feel they are giving up much quality going digital.

03-19-2017, 08:34 PM	#2843
randian Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Jan 2010 4K collection:508 Blu-ray collection:1417 DVD collection:66 MA collection:1020 Digital collection:11 iTunes collection:549 Prime collection:28 Trading Score:63	Physical Copies or Digital? Why would a digital copy that isn't selling well (or any thing, really) be removed by the studio? Even with redundant discs storage costs are trivial, maybe $1/year/movie. Any movie that can sell 5-10 copies a year is worth keeping even if that won't measurably move the company's profit meter. The most miserably terrible movie can do that.

03-19-2017, 08:31 PM	#2842
fgomike Special Member Member since:Oct 2010 Location:A Galaxy Far, Far Away - Fargo, ND Blu-ray collection:61 DVD collection:46 Digital collection:22 Blu-ray reviews:13	I am purchasing more and more digital copies through Amazon, Google or Vudu. I don't like iTunes because as far as I can tell, you cannot stream titles oniTunes. Unless the blu ray has features that you can't get on a digital copy like director commentary or is a movie that is a collectable, I am more likely to go digital. Space and cost is becoming a prime reason. Most movies, if you wait a bit, will be a lot cheaper to purchase digitally. I guess you can say the same about blu ray or dvd titles as well. Digital just seems cheaper quicker

03-19-2017, 10:28 PM	#2845
tobz Active Member Top contributor Member since:Feb 2017 Location:New Zealand 4K collection:165 Blu-ray collection:281 DVD collection:11 iTunes collection:608 Trading Score:32	As I understand it, with Digital it is not the studio that keeps the film up it is the store that does so, ie Apple, Google etc. I would think that if a film is not selling well (I'm sure there is plenty on iTunes atm that arn't but they are still there) they are not going to worry about removing it. It takes up so little space on Apple's or Googles servers that I doubt they would go to all the trouble. I also don't think its affecting its profit mergers enough if at all to justify putting the effort to remove it. By trouble I don't mean deleting it, I am referring to the bad PR that the company will get. There as a case a few years ago where some Christmas specials were removed from iTunes but after enough people complained and was picked up by news outlets the specials were back on iTunes for people who purchased to view.

03-20-2017, 10:23 AM	#2859
Steedeel Blu-ray King Member since:Apr 2011 Location:England 4K collection:284 Blu-ray collection:1253	My concern is film itself. The industry seems intent on ******* it up for those that love it. I just think Digital is an enabler. Like the interactive tv example I talked about. My fear is that interactive tv and film will replace linear versions. It would be a total nightmare as I don't want to interact with my movies, I just want to watch them. However, some serious money is being invested in this area and film directors and companies alike are getting involved (MGM for one) It's experiments like this, that will end up screwing us over. At a time when we should be celebrating 4K and the advancements in tech, I actually can't help but fear the shite that is around the corner.

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