The Official Premier Acoustics Owners thread

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

Since I have ceramic tile floor on a concrete slab at grade in my HT room, I decided that I might buy a Subdude riser. I did an experiment to isolate the PA 120 from the floor in a rather crude way. I had a pad of high density closed cell neoprene foam (used by contractors when they have to work on their knees). It was by luck nearly the same size as the PA 120 base, just a tad smaller (ca. 0.25 in L and W) and it's about 1.25 inch thick.

I put the pad under the sub. Then I checked to see if the 60 lb weight of the sub had compressed the pad any. It still measured 1.25 in. thickness under the 60 lb weight of the sub. Then I watched U-571 mainly during the depth charges exploding scenes. I immediately noticed that the bass was tighter and more solid. The impact was greater. My jaw dropped to the floor and it kept dropping to the floor after the TDK Hospital explosion, Ironside's rampaging sweep, canon fire shots in Master and Commander, and in Knowing when the colossal coronal mass ejection that swept through Boston. - All I can say is that I was simply blown away. I've decided to order a Auralex SubDude.

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

duneaholic and woodley, thanks for the heads up. I'm putting my order in for another PA 120 through Amazon ($229, free shipping) tonight. - While I'm at it, I'll order two SubDudes too.

I have a SubDude as well, but IF you want & since it seems you already kind of have the same/similar type of material(s) as the SubDude anyway, why not just Use That instead & Save $50 or $100 (for 2) ?? - Just an idea, but yes, it Does make a difference & raising it up, whether it's 2-4" or higher (like in my Gallery, I have the SubDude & Sub on Top of a 20" table!).

[LastDitchEffort]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

Since I have ceramic tile floor on a concrete slab at grade in my HT room, I decided that I might buy a Subdude riser.

I did an experiment to isolate the PA 120 from the floor in a rather crude way. I had a pad of high density closed cell neoprene foam (used by contractors when they have to work on their knees). It was by luck nearly the same size as the PA 120 base, just a tad smaller (ca. 0.25 in L and W) and it's about 1.25 inch thick.

I put the pad under the sub. Then I checked to see if the 60 lb weight of the sub had compressed the pad any. It still measured 1.25 in. thickness under the 60 lb weight of the sub. Then I watched U-571 mainly during the depth charges exploding scenes. I immediately noticed that the bass was tighter and more solid. The impact was greater. My jaw dropped to the floor and it kept dropping to the floor after the TDK Hospital explosion, Ironside's rampaging sweep, canon fire shots in Master and Commander, and in Knowing when the colossal coronal mass ejection that swept through Boston.

All I can say is that I was simply blown away.

I've decided to order a Auralex SubDude.

Glad you are enjoying the pa, I know I am! Sounds like its growing in popularity and they are raising the prices on thier end, glad I bought it when I did. I have to think about making a subdude, probably going to try a few blocks of wood to raise it off the floor a few inches and see how it sounds first.

I see a lot of people use them so they must make a difference.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by Aerodude73

I have a SubDude as well, but IF you want & since it seems you already kind of have the same/similar type of material(s) as the SubDude anyway, why not just Use That instead & Save $50 or $100 (for 2) ?? - Just an idea, but yes, it Does make a difference & raising it up, whether it's 2-4" or higher (like in my Gallery, I have the SubDude & Sub on Top of a 20" table!).

Oh yes, I have been thinking along those lines too. I could make one subdude from the pad I have. But I need another matching one for my second PA 120. The problem is, after searching around hardward stores, landscaping and garden centers, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and Lumbermen's, I can't find another in that particular size, shape, and thickness. They make them thinner and more elongated like 23" x 12" x 0.5". I bought mine about 5 years ago, and like everything else, it gets changed. On line, I went seaching for neoprene sheets. It ain't cheap. A 1.25" sheet costs $423.08 (51" x 83")!

The foam packing that was in the PA 120 carton is not suitable. It compresses too easily. I think the PA 120 would exhibit an excessive amount of recoil sitting on a SubDude made out of that.

So that leaves me with another option. At Home Depot I was examining some foam board insulation. I found one particular board, one inch thick and blue in color, called Extruded Expanded Polystyrene (XEPS) Foam Board which is closed-cell foam insulation and very closely resembles my old pad. It is consistent in density and has a higher compressive strength than regular molded EPS or MEPS. I think it will make an excellent substitue although it is not synthetic rubber. The good news is that it's cheap, about $15 / sheet 8' x 4'. A 4' x 2' sheet of 0.75 in. MDF is about $9. For $25 I'll have the main materials I need to make a SubDude clone. I have a lot of sticky back black felt that I have from another project that I can subsitute for the car speaker carpeting material. It won't be a SubDude exactly so I'll have to call it the SubWojta.

BTW, my second PA 120 is on order.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by LastDitchEffort

Glad you are enjoying the pa, I know I am! Sounds like its growing in popularity and they are raising the prices on thier end, glad I bought it when I did. I have to think about making a subdude, probably going to try a few blocks of wood to raise it off the floor a few inches and see how it sounds first.

I see a lot of people use them so they must make a difference.

Raising it off the floor will probably improve the sound. But instead of blocks of wood, use closed cell high density foam blocks. Then you will get the added benefit of isolating the sub from the floor. Unless you have carpeting on a bare concrete slab at grade, you will need the foam pads for wooden floors, ceramic tile, etc. That will help to eliminate boominess.

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

Oh yes, I have been thinking along those lines too. I could make one subdude from the pad I have. But I need another matching one for my second PA 120. The problem is, after searching around hardward stores, landscaping and garden centers, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and Lumbermen's, I can't find another in that particular size, shape, and thickness. They make them thinner and more elongated like 23" x 12" x 0.5". I bought mine about 5 years ago, and like everything else, it gets changed. On line, I went seaching for neoprene sheets. It ain't cheap. A 1.25" sheet costs $423.08 (51" x 83")! - The foam packing that was in the PA 120 carton is not suitable. It compresses too easily. I think the PA 120 would exhibit an excessive amount of recoil sitting on a SubDude made out of that. - So that leaves me with another option. At Home Depot I was examining some foam board insulation. I found one particular board, one inch thick and blue in color, called Extruded Expanded Polystyrene (XEPS) Foam Board which is closed-cell foam insulation and very closely resembles my old pad. It is consistent in density and has a higher compressive strength than regular molded EPS or MEPS. I think it will make an excellent substitue although it is not synthetic rubber. The good news is that it's cheap, about $15 / sheet 8' x 4'. A 4' x 2' sheet of 0.75 in. MDF is about $9. For $25 I'll have the main materials I need to make a SubDude clone. I have a lot of sticky back black felt that I have from another project that I can subsitute for the car speaker carpeting material. It won't be a SubDude exactly so I'll have to call it the SubWojta. - BTW, my second PA 120 is on order.

That sounds like it'll work fine for your 2nd one. Btw, you suck! " Lol. Nice, 2 PA-120's!!

[Yeha-Noha]

Sorry, didn't mean to rub it in, well, not too much. That's a nice thing about these subs, they're reasonably priced for their performance. Big Daddy say, two subs are better than one. Adding another one of these babies doesn't break the bank either.

[duneaholic]

I'm kinda having buyers remorse.....I just should have ponied up the extra 50 bucks and bought another PA.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by duneaholic

I'm kinda having buyers remorse.....I just should have ponied up the extra 50 bucks and bought another PA.

Well, Big Daddy highly recommends the AA subs for those wanting good performance on a budget. I think one can't really go wrong either way. Both offer that IMO.

I think once you get their levels reasonably matched, you'll do just as well as having two PA-120s. Getting there will be a little trickier because of the way subs interact with rooms especially if both aren't the same sub. I would bring the AA sub's level down to match the PA 120 instead of vice versa though. That way you should have enough headroom remaining for both subs when it's needed during demanding bass content.

Edit: BTW, Erict matched up an Energy ESW-10 with an eD A2-300. See link, post #621. Also, I've decided to build an MDF foam sandwich riser/isolation pad similar to Erict's. We both need isolation. His floor is cut stone masonry (and very beautiful I might add too) whereas mine is ceramic tile. Except for the subs, we both have similar speaker installations, all Energy.

[duneaholic]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

Well, Big Daddy highly recommends the AA subs for those wanting good performance on a budget. I think one can't really go wrong either way. Both offer that IMO.

I think once you get their levels reasonably matched, you'll do just as well as having two PA-120s. Getting there will be a little trickier because of the way subs interact with rooms especially if both aren't the same sub. I would bring the AA sub's level down to match the PA 120 instead of vice versa though. That way you should have enough headroom remaining for both subs when it's needed during demanding bass content.

Believe me I've been doing that for the last month. The AA sub I've got has a distortion problem. It has nothing to do with getting them to match up.

[aramis109]

Sell it online and get another PA-120!

I'd love to get a second sub. I keep looking around my room and trying to figure out where I could place it and... it just ain't happening. Luckily I don't feel that I truly need one, but I love the bass.

I use an Auralex Subdude and love it's isolation properties. Glad to see you guys are enjoying your subs as much as I have been.

[Yeha-Noha]

Oh gosh, duneaholic, I'm sorry you had to remind me. Now I recall reading your posts.

[duneaholic]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Sell it online and get another PA-120!

I'd love to get a second sub. I keep looking around my room and trying to figure out where I could place it and... it just ain't happening. Luckily I don't feel that I truly need one, but I love the bass.

I use an Auralex Subdude and love it's isolation properties. Glad to see you guys are enjoying your subs as much as I have been.

I've got a bro-in-law who thought my cheapo 10" sony sub was awesome...there's always that! If all else fails. He would probably think it was the bomb.

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Sell it online and get another PA-120!

I'd love to get a second sub. I keep looking around my room and trying to figure out where I could place it and... it just ain't happening. Luckily I don't feel that I truly need one, but I love the bass.

I use an Auralex Subdude and love it's isolation properties. Glad to see you guys are enjoying your subs as much as I have been.

Duneaholic, I agree, shrug it off, buy a second PA 120, and be happy.

Aramis, I suppose I'm lucky that I have another spot where I can put a second PA 120 that has my wife's blessing. If your room is under 20' x 20', then you can probably get away with just one. My sub sees a 30 W x 20 L area under a 15' vaulted celling covering a 20 x 15 HT room, 15 x 10 kitchen, and a 15 x 10 dinning area. I could use another one to share the load.

[moebeus1975]

How would this subwoofer compare to the Velodyne vrp-1200 that I have? The Velodyne doesn't have that chest thumping bass that some other people have described with the pa-120. But i don't want to spend more than $300 on a sub so I thought this would be the perfect choice.

[Aerodude73]

Just received an email from Eric at Sound Distributors, and my PA-120 will be There next week, then about 5 days after that to me. I ordered it on 8/21, so 3 weeks would have made it around the week of 9/11 to me, so it looks like they're running a few days beyond 3 weeks.

Oh well, what can you do. B/ordered items are never an Exact science anyway. What's a "few" more days, right?

[Yeha-Noha]

I ordered my second PA 120 (cherry finish) through Amazon over the weekend on August 29th. It was shipped on the 30st (Vegas departure scan). The arrival scan in Phoenix was on the evening of the 31st. The departure scan was on the morning of Sept 1st in Phoenix. The arrival scan in Flagstaff was later in the afternoon. It will be out for delivery on the 2nd.

Did you order the black finish or cherry?

Mine's only taking 5 days to deliver after ordering.

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

I ordered my second PA 120 (cherry finish) through Amazon over the weekend on August 29th. It was shipped on the 30st (Vegas departure scan). The arrival scan in Phoenix was on the evening of the 31st. The departure scan was on the morning of Sept 1st in Phoenix. The arrival scan in Flagstaff was later in the afternoon. It will be out for delivery on the 2nd. - Did you order the black finish or cherry? Mine's only taking 5 days to deliver after ordering.

I ordered it in BLACK from Sound Distributors (Eric Winston), knowing that the Black ones were on backorder. He sent a note saying he'll get it next week, then to me about 5 days later (they're in Calif.).

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by moebeus1975

How would this subwoofer compare to the Velodyne vrp-1200 that I have? The Velodyne doesn't have that chest thumping bass that some other people have described with the pa-120. But i don't want to spend more than $300 on a sub so I thought this would be the perfect choice.

Where you place the sub and where you sit in your chair is going to largely determine how much or how little bass you hear or feel. If you sit in a null zone, and if it just happens to be in the lower bass, you may not get that chest thumping umph. Room size is another consideration. If you have a very large room like mine (over 6K cu ft), you may need two or possibly four subs. That way you can obtain smoother bass response across the listening area. Read Big Daddy's A Guide to Subwoofers to help you get the most out of your sub. You may find that you need to put the sub on a riser and/or an isolation pad (made of 0.5 to 1.0 in thick closed cell foam like neoprene rubber) to achieve better, tighter, less boomy bass especially if you have wooden or tile floors in your listening area. The same would be true for a more costly sub like an entry level eD or SVS.

I found that after putting my PA 120 on an isolating pad the bass was cleaner and tighter. Music sounds much better too with far less boomy bass.

However, if you aren't getting the kind of bass you're looking for or are still dissatisfied, perhaps it's time to consider getting another sub. I can tell you this. The PA 120 is one of the best deals around for getting bass that is incredibly amazing if you're on a budget (like 300 smackeroos or less).

I can't really say that I'm getting heavy chest thumping bass, some yes, but certainly not as heavy as has been reported by some. Yet, I might not play it as loud as others who are getting it. Also, my listening area is pretty large. I know I need at least two subs.

My second PA 120 is out for delivery today. I can't wait.

[Aerodude73]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

You may find that you need to put the sub on a riser and/or an isolation pad (made of 0.5 to 1.0 in thick closed cell foam like neoprene rubber) to achieve better, tighter, less boomy bass especially if you have wooden or tile floors in your listening area. The same would be true for a more costly sub like an entry level eD or SVS.

I found that after putting my PA 120 on an isolating pad the bass was cleaner and tighter. Music sounds much better too with far less boomy bass. - However, if you aren't getting the kind of bass you're looking for or are still dissatisfied, perhaps it's time to consider getting another sub. I can tell you this. The PA 120 is one of the best deals around for getting bass that is incredibly amazing if you're on a budget (like 300 smackeroos or less). I can't really say that I'm getting heavy chest thumping bass, some yes, but certainly not as heavy as has been reported by some. Yet, I might not play it as loud as others who are getting it. Also, my listening area is pretty large. I know I need at least two subs.

My second PA 120 is out for delivery today. I can't wait.

I assume you're getting the 2nd one in Cherry also? Looking forward to updated pics of both Subs, lucky son of a gun...

[Yeha-Noha]

Originally Posted by Aerodude73

I assume you're getting the 2nd one in Cherry also? Looking forward to updated pics of both Subs, lucky son of a gun...

Yep, cherry it is. Black ash is nice too, but my front towers, center, and other PA 120 are cherry.

Now, where's that UPS truck?

I'll get some pics soon. I'm on my last night for this week's observing session. The cloud flow breaking off from the hurricane over the Baja will probably mess up imaging tonight. Might get to go home early. Then I get a 5 day Labor Day weekend.