The Shining (1980)

[Bronson13]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

The problem is, most of these categories had really stiff competition. I could see Shelley DuVall getting a Supporting Actress nomination, because there are a few nominees I could see her getting more votes than, if the movie had some momentum. But it's hard to say which director or actor would be swapped out for Kubrick or Nicholson -- I guess Rush for the directors, but clearly he impressed people if he got nominated for a movie that wasn't up for Best Picture.

There’s an argument to be made Kubrick should have been nominated for best director every year he made a film.

The fact Kubrick only got 3 best director nods and won none of them is a travesty.

[hYPE]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

If The Shining has the critical acclaim that it has today back in 1980 it would have absolutely gotten nominated in these categories at the Oscars:

Best Picture
Best Actor: Jack Nicholson
Best Director: Stanley Kubrick
Best Cinematography
Best Score
Best Adapted Screenplay
And Maybe Best Supporting Actor: Scatman Crothers

Hands down on all! I think Scatman would have definitely gotten a Best Supporting nod!

[GeoffOliver]

I don’t think I would’ve nominated Shelley Duvall for an Oscar. She had a very unique look, sound, and presence that made her casting work, and I certainly can’t imagine the film without her, but her actual performance was pretty laughable. I can at least understand her Razzie nom (Kubrick not so much).

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

critiquing an opinion isn't same as silencing an opinion

No, they're not silencing King's opinion - but many of Kubrick's defenders are going beyond critiquing King's analyses and making personal attacks, calling him jealous, a hack, whatever. Those are not intellectual critiques, just emotional outbursts.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

There’s an argument to be made Kubrick should have been nominated for best director every year he made a film.

The fact Kubrick only got 3 best director nods and won none of them is a travesty.

Throw in Hitchcock with zero Best Director Oscars and arguably the two greatest directors in history of cinema have a combined zero Best Directing Oscars. Just proof that Oscars are overrated.

[surfdude12]

Originally Posted by English Patient

No, they're not silencing King's opinion - but many of Kubrick's defenders are going beyond critiquing King's analyses and making personal attacks, calling him jealous, a hack, whatever. Those are not intellectual critiques, just emotional outbursts.

Fair enough, I agree with that

Btw you named after the English Patient film? That movie is so awesome

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by surfdude12

Fair enough, I agree with that

Btw you named after the English Patient film? That movie is so awesome

You've got good taste. Juliette Binoche is amazing in it.

And you're right about the Oscars being way overrated. I'm not a big Hitchcock fan, but he and Kubrick should have gotten Best Director for something. The Shining should have at least gotten Best Production Design.

[GeoffOliver]

Many of Hitchcock’s films were more than Oscar worthy, but they almost never bit. I’m just glad Rebecca won Best Picture. It’s one of my favorite films of all time, and my favorite Hitchcock along with Psycho. Star Wars also deserved Best Picture, certainly over Annie Hall (but I’m biased because I really don’t care for Woody Allen in the slightest).

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

2001 is also absolutely a “classic.” It’s in the Library of Congress’s National Film Registry for crying out loud, along with Dr. Strangelove (one of the original 25 picks no less), and The Shining probably isn’t far behind. It’s just an important film all around, even outside the horror community.

In my opinion, a book and a movie are two very different art forms, and should never be directly compared. You can enjoy one more than the other, but they’re using completely different methods to tell their stories. The book is King’s The Shining and the movie is Kubrick’s The Shining. It’s interesting to compare and contrast the story differences, but the movie is first and foremost a reflection of Kubrick’s vision before it is a retelling of King’s book. Just because a movie is very faithful to a novel doesn’t necessarily make it “good” or “better” by any stretch of the imagination. Just look at the miniseries.

There’s certainly nothing wrong with hating a movie, even a classic one, but everyone should at least realize why a beloved film has its fans, and both sides should try to be respectful. It’s one of my pet peeves when people outright shame others for enjoying a film (not saying that’s happening here, but I do see it elsewhere). Every film has merits, if only historic in some cases, but that’s a whole other discussion.

Does King hate the movie because it isn’t a faithful adaptation or because he thinks it’s a bad movie? I wonder if he’d like it if he never wrote the novel and the movie was based on an original screenplay.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Does King hate the movie because it isn’t a faithful adaptation or because he thinks it’s a bad movie? I wonder if he’d like it if he never wrote the novel and the movie was based on an original screenplay.

Most of his criticisms seem to focus on the characters and casting. He thought Nicholson was a bad choice because Nicholson seemed - to him at least - crazy from the start, like the wild-and-crazy character he played in Cuckoo's Nest. He also didn't like how Wendy Torrance was written - he said it was a "misogynistic" character, a pitiable doormat who cried through most of the movie and just seemed too weak, not like the Wendy in the book.

King also had some technical criticisms - for example, he objected to how Kubrick cut away from Wendy looking through Jack's manuscript to show Jack approaching. He said it ruined the tension of the scene, killed any surprise, and demonstrated - to King, at least - that Kubrick didn't really have a good feel for horror movies.

There were some other criticisms - he's often said Kubrick's movie is cold, while his novel is warm (probably referring to the way King tried to make the characters sympathetic, with all the backstories, etc.).

[GeoffOliver]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

Does King hate the movie because it isn’t a faithful adaptation or because he thinks it’s a bad movie? I wonder if he’d like it if he never wrote the novel and the movie was based on an original screenplay.

Hard to say. I guess it's bits of both.

Initially King was flattered that Kubrick was going to do something of his. Later he expressed disappointment in the film. "There's a lot to like about it. But it's a great big beautiful Cadillac with no motor inside, you can sit in it and you can enjoy the smell of the leather upholstery - the only thing you can't do is drive it anywhere. So I would do every thing different. The real problem is that Kubrick set out to make a horror picture with no apparent understanding of the genre. Everything about it screams that from beginning to end, from plot decision to the final scene - which has been used before on the Twilight Zone"

King had the chance to "do everything different" with the I997 TV movie adaptation of The Shining which he wrote and produced. However the TV Shining was poorly received and generally considered to be vastly inferior to the Kubrick's version. Friction between Kubrick and King was probably further exasperated because Kubrick refused King the rights to release his version of The Shining on video.

Recently it has emerged that King used to be an alcoholic, and that parts of The Shining are, if not autobiographical, then very personal for the author. King was annoyed because Kubrick's adaptation, in his eyes, marginalised the book's most important theme, that of an good father can be turned into a monster through alcohol abuse.

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/faq/h...g/shining.html

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by GrimJester

Yeah, I know someone who hates horror movies, the only ones they saw are Psycho, The Birds, The Exorcist, some Tim Burton movies, and The Shining. It is completely in the mainstream.

How could they know they hate horror movies if those are the only ones they saw?

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

If The Shining has the critical acclaim that it has today back in 1980 it would have absolutely gotten nominated in these categories at the Oscars:

Best Picture
Best Actor: Jack Nicholson
Best Director: Stanley Kubrick
Best Cinematography
Best Score
Best Adapted Screenplay
And Maybe Best Supporting Actor: Scatman Crothers

I agree except I don’t think it would’ve been nominated for best score. There was barely any music that was actually composed for the film.

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

Hard to say. I guess it's bits of both.



http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/faq/h...g/shining.html

What does this mean? “Kubrick refused King the rights to release his version of The Shining on video.” Kubrick didn’t allow King’s miniseries to be released on VHS/DVD? He had the power to do that?

[GeoffOliver]

I guess so, although it's on DVD now (albeit OOP), so it's moot at this point.

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by English Patient

No, they're not silencing King's opinion - but many of Kubrick's defenders are going beyond critiquing King's analyses and making personal attacks, calling him jealous, a hack, whatever. Those are not intellectual critiques, just emotional outbursts.

King also made Maximum Overdrive and so I don't have much use for his film criticisms.

[Noahishere]

Originally Posted by rocknblues81

King also made Maximum Overdrive and so I don't have much use for his film criticisms.

Points!

[Martoto]

I was going to post a "Leave King Alone" meme a la "Leave Britney Alone" but I can't be bothered.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Martoto

I was going to post a "Leave King Alone" meme a la "Leave Britney Alone" but I can't be bothered.

How clever. I could do the same with a "Leave Kubrick Alone" meme, since some members get sooo emotional anytime anyone - like King - dares to offer criticism of their favorite director, and they have to resort to put-downs, snark, attacks on his character, etc. Which is kind of childish - and to me indicates that they can't debate the actual merits of King's criticisms, they can only make silly personal attacks, all of which are some variation of "King sucks."

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by rocknblues81

King also made Maximum Overdrive and so I don't have much use for his film criticisms.

Cocaine made MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE.