Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdude12
Ok, I read your review in more detail this time. Very well laid out and researched. However, I would still ask: what's the point? [Show spoiler]I know you said the "loop" (I'll use this to refer to the mythological theme of Jess having a recurring scenario, both on the ship and off the ship - until she is induced back on the ship) is there to make Jess go through these repeated experiences to get to see her son momentarily at the end of the loop? That's it?
My more fundamental questions are:
In what context do you and Squid believe this story takes place? In a dream/fantasy context when Jess is sleeping? In a real context? Squid seems to say in a real/actual context, without delusions. But surely, this can't be so, as it necessarily implies the cloning of multiple Jess', as well as countless other people. How else do you account for seeing multiple Jess (if the camera is not lying, and objective reality = Jess reality)?
I don't think I'm understanding the framework of this "loop" theory. So please walk me through it. Ok, so Jess wakes up. She goes in to the kitchen to make breakfast. And then BOOM! she suddenly the "loop" hits her, and she suddenly wants to go sailing, and enters a factual "loop" scenario, which will involve her seeing real/actual clones of herself entering a ship, then seeing another clone of herself (a bad mommy version), kiling her, to see her son for 5 minutes before causing his death?? whew!  Yes, i'm being cynical, but I really want to understand your and Squid's theory and am just stating my misunderstanding. I understand Squid's point about the "nap trigger," but my question is even more fundamental: how is the loop even working? what is the context, as far as Jess' frame of mind?
Also, how do you and Squid account for Room 237? Seriously?? You think it was just a tribute to the Overlook? You concede at a minimum that's its not a coincidence, I hope? (odds: 1/1000) Also the "Redrum" style writing and the red axe were either obvious giveaways or the biggest cinematic coincidences I've ever seen.
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[Show spoiler]No, the point is punishment for killing her son, mirroring the Sisyphus myth. So, in a word, punishment. I haven't defined where/when the movie is occuring. I don't think it's purgatory, because that implies she has a chance to get to Heaven, which she doesn't. It's essentially a Dante-esque realm of hell. In a realm such as this, questions concerning more than one Jess and other such things are explainable by virtue of what I perceive to be the point: punishment in a something akin to hell. Usually I'd say that's a cop out in regards to unanswered questions, but in this film I really believe that's what the director was going for.
The question of "how the loop is working" is an unnecessary one if you accept mine and squid's theory of some sort of punishment. Once again, it's not a cop out if the entire point is her being stuck in neverending punishment. Here's my basic chain of events:
1) Jess snaps from pressure and kills her son then herself
2) she wakes up in a version of hell, and some semblance of first scene with her son occurs
3) she goes on the yacht
4) they go on the ship, jess goes crazy just as she did in life, and kills everyone
5) she remains on the ship, but by killing everyone she starts the loop of a new jess waking up on the beach
6) new jess goes to her home, sees bad jess and kills her, attempts to save son in some way, such as driving away
7) son and jess die again, in some way
8) jess sees her son and herself dead in some way, as we see at end of film, then she realizes what's really happening and goes on yacht thinking she can change things maybe, or just accepting that she can only see her son for a few moments over and over.
9) jess takes nap on yacht and forgets (reset)
10) jess and others board yacht, jess kills everyone and then kills the bad original version of herself
11) new jess wakes up on beach, repeat above
In the movie, we see that it's occurred many times before in multiple ways, including corpses, dead birds, lockets, notes, etc.
As for 237, that's a great catch by you but I wholly disagree with your theory deriving from it. Many directors use references in their films to previous films. The horror genre, out of all the genres, does this the most often and most blatantly. The room numbe is a clear reference to the Shining. Does it mean that the film mirrors it? Not at all. However, like the Shining, someone is already dead (Jess) and someone goes crazy and starts killing people. The redrum style writing and use of an axe may be a reference to the Shining, or it may not. A note written in blood and the use of an axe are hardly unusual in the genre; the vast majority of horror films use them, so I think you're looking much to much into those two elements. If they're a reference to the Shining, they're simply a shout out, nothing more. But they're hardly unusual or special. The number on the door, however, is very clearly a reference as you point out. Good catch.
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Even if it isnt very REALISTIC.
I just love it and it's one of the 2 10/10 movies I gave last year.
but just how i saw it.
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