Do we mark higher than we should? - Page 2 - Blu-ray Forum

Weirded Wonder · 10-10-2009, 08:16 PM

I think I tire of hearing of Disney's greatness. I mean, most of their films are based on some other person's works. I find them boring and unoriginal. The misses has a great problem with Disney films and their gender warping, which I completely understand. I grew up in the 70s and was around when a lot of these films were re-released and never liked them as a child either.

maidenbrain · 10-10-2009, 08:21 PM

Snow White isn't my favorite Disney film and I'm not a Disney fanboy, but the animation is over-the-top amazing and the Hyperion Studio extra is one of the best ever in HD (w/ Steamboat Willy in HD) and, alone, easily worth the 9.96 plus tax I paid (plus, I got the steelbook). For animation fans, it's a must own and the PQ is easily a 4.5. I mean, seriously, how much better can it look? Think about the size of the original drawings that were photographed.

Anyway, IMO, 2-D cel animation should not be compared to CG rendered animation just like stop motion animation in Harryhausen movies shouldn't be compared to CG-effects like those found in Jurassic Park.

Lastly, Snow White and the Seven Dwarves was an inspiration for Argento's Suspiria.

assydingo · 10-10-2009, 08:28 PM

Snow White and Pinocchio are fantastic. Sleeping Beauty is a tad bland.. but the animation and Maleficent make up for it.

wormraper · 10-10-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assydingo

Snow White and Pinocchio are fantastic. Sleeping Beauty is a tad bland.. but the animation and Maleficent make up for it.

agreed, I personally find Snow White to be one of the most engaging of the disney movies. The newer stuff just bores the crap out of me. I actually prefer the humor and "feel" that went into the classics. The new stuff is too "pop culture" for me.

assydingo · 10-10-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wormraper

agreed, I personally find Snow White to be one of the most engaging of the disney movies. The newer stuff just bores the crap out of me. I actually prefer the humor and "feel" that went into the classics. The new stuff is too "pop culture" for me.

I'd say all movies are hit and miss these days, not just Disney.

I barely remember any of the Disney movies. Watching them on blu-ray might as well be my first time seeing them. So it's not really about nostalgia for me. Also hadn't seen Labyrinth as a kid and I love it.

Batman1980 · 10-10-2009, 08:53 PM

Snow White, honestly?
4/5 AQ
4/5 PQ
2.6/5 story
It's not the best movie story wise but it did what it was supposed to do and started a company that continues to be among the very best today at making movies that entertain one and all.

thegorn · 10-10-2009, 08:56 PM

I can understand rating PQ like a dry analytical robot. But as far as the movie itself, its just to subjective. It's ok to rate with feeling, even if others don't share it.

richieb1971 · 10-10-2009, 08:57 PM

When reviewing a blu ray of a catalog title the only scores which are important are those relative to its HD delivery.

Of course if you have not seen the movie in question the other score factors come into place, but if you don't like animation Snow White is hardly going to catch your eye. Scores don't persuade you to like things you don't like.

I do however think something as powerful as Snow white might deter some reviewers from knocking it down. I'm used to that as I guess you all are.

Arkham · 10-10-2009, 09:00 PM

I believe the PQ ratings have to take into account the difference between the release and previous releases also and deservedly so.
The Disney blu releases are so far in front of any previous release of the material that it really does stand out.

YodasFootPowder · 10-10-2009, 09:09 PM

I think most older movies are graded for how good they look now compared to how old they are. Most of them aren't being judged against current movies and film making. This is the best Snow White has ever looked and ever will look. So as far as video and audio go, that is why it got the scores it did. I actually think that is how it should be judged when we're talking about old movies. You can't reasonably give Snow White a 2/5 for PQ because it's obviously never going to hold a candle to movies like Cars, Monsters Inc, etc, etc... It got a 4.5/5.0 because it looks amazing for a cartoon from 1937.

Disney is notoriously picky and anal when restoring their old classics and it shows. That is why it got high scores. Some people might complain that if it doesn't look perfect it shouldn't get a 4-5 for a video score. But, you have to seriously give weight to the fact that it was made in 1937 and all the masters are that old as well. Taking that into considering the PQ is nothing short of perfect.

Now as far as scoring the movie (story), well, that is obviously highly subjective.

But, as far as the OP, I totally see where you're coming from.

Danielle Ni Dhighe · 10-10-2009, 09:11 PM

It was made in 1937. Audience tastes have changed a lot since then (and not always for the better, I’d argue).

bigpatky · 10-10-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielle Ni Dhighe

It was made in 1937. Audience tastes have changed a lot since then (and not always for the better, I’d argue).

going along with that, it's important to understand how groundbreaking movies like snow white and wizard of oz were for their time. i'm amazed everytime i watch snow white thinking about how long ago it was made and comparing it to what else was being made at the time.

aggienader08 · 10-10-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheZoof

Hey guys,

I rented Snow White and Seven dwarfs last night and am I so happy I didn't buy it. What a snore fest. I realize it is very old and I also realize it is a musical animation. I love musicals and I enjoy hand drawn but I can't even get into any of the music. Do you think all the hype and high reviews for such an old movie like that is justified or are we just giving it a break because it is so old?

My review:

Movie - 2/5

PQ - 2.5/5

AQ - 3/5

Extras - N/A

Overall - 2.5/5

I think if I had bought it then I would be been very disappointed.

I read everywhere the stellar reviews and it really isn't all that great.

BTW - I would give Cars a 5.0 for Movie, AQ and PQ. I have not seen Sleeping Beauty on blu-ray but I was going to buy it this Tuesday when the Metal case comes out but Snow White scared me.

What are your thoughts?

What do you mean the metal case? Doesn't it just come in a standard blu packaging?

jamesdevil · 10-10-2009, 10:36 PM

No offense but giving the PQ on this release a 2.5 out of 5 pretty much spells out you don't know what you are talking about or what to look for.

ryoohki · 10-10-2009, 11:45 PM

PQ setting should always be relative to the year they are released. Sometime it's not because they can't do it right. It's because the technolgy right now doesn't exist to make them better.

Personnally i prefer 2D animation. 3D have it's share of goodness but it's share of crap too. If it wasn't for Pixar, 3D animation would be really poor right now (cartoon).

IMHO CGI in movie today, most of the time is crap. I mean most of the time there's absolutly no law of physics in them and it makes a 'serious' movie look crappy.

I was more impressed than the CGI in District 9 than anything released this year.

Also people taste are different. I know a lot of people who love Watchmen. Personnally i found it a bore fest just like the comic, but that's my opinion. I'am not a fan of the latest batman either. I love it the first time and find it to be boring while rewatching it. There's some movies that when you know how it is. They are pretty much not watchable anymore. Some are rewachable a lot (like Spaceballs for example)

toef · 10-11-2009, 12:18 AM

Whoever said they were bored to tears watching the Wizard of Oz, I'd want to know their top 10 movies.

I can see why some people might be bored with Snow White, but it has to be put in context, and viewed as a movie from 1937. It shouldn't be directly compared to today's movies.

Take sports as an analogy. You can't really compare an athlete today to one from 70 years ago. You have to consider the times they competed in, and the tools that were available for them to train to do what they do. Babe Ruth doesn't have the most home runs of all time, but most people would agree that he's the best home run hitter of all time. The number of home runs he hit in his day was far and above what anyone else was doing at the time. When's the last time a single baseball player had more home runs than any entire team did? Babe Ruth did that a lot.

According to the Wizard of Oz commentary, the success of Snow White had a huge impact on getting the Wizard of Oz made, so for that I'm glad. And then there's the idea of giving these movies their due credit for being the seminal movies they are. Same thing goes for a movie like Citizen Kane. Just because you may not realize the importance doesn't mean it's not there. If you see them simply as stories, then of course you're not going to think they are that important. If all someone cares about is a story with some cool visuals, then there's no need to watch anything that's more than 5 years old.

That being said, I think Sleeping Beauty was pretty boring.

Beta Man · 10-11-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoohki

PQ setting should always be relative to the year they are released.

I disagree completely with that........ PQ should be relative to the source material, although I understand it's often difficult to know what the source material looks like/is capable of.

jw · 10-11-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beta Man

I disagree completely with that........ PQ should be relative to the source material, although I understand it's often difficult to know what the source material looks like/is capable of.

well it will never look like wall-e, Thats for sure

Atreyu · 10-11-2009, 12:52 AM

A review is someone's opinion and not everyone is going to like the same thing. Now me I happen to love Disney animated features but I think Warner Bros. can't be beat on the shorts(Bugs Bunny, Roadrunner etc...).
I think some of the reviewers' opinions comes from what was technically possible to do at the time it came out and the fact that everyone told Walt that a feature animated film was not possible. Many naysayers said the same thing to to Robert Zemeckis when he proposed the ideas for Roger Rabbit and Forest Gump. And I am still astounded at what they were able to do from a technical standpoint for The Wizard Of Oz.
Sure the movie is of a different time period so the music is going to reflect that. My two favorite Disney features are Peter Pan and The Jungle Book(and I have tattoos to prove it), but musically Peter Pan is before my time, and Jungle Book is jazz oriented. So if you don't care for the style of music it will be hard for you to warm up to a classic such as Snow White.
And of course animation has come a long way since Walt first opened the Disney studio doors but that is another reason to enjoy and marvel at these classics or as I like to refer to them, cinematic masterpieces.

jamesdevil · 10-11-2009, 01:10 AM

I'm 23 and have zero 'nostalgia' for Disney (in the sense that I am reliving my childhood or whatever by viewing this films now) or anything of the sort I just like good films. I like Snow White because of its historical importance (which in turn adds to the viewing as I pay more attention to how the animation is, the sound, the voices, etc.) and it is simple, entertaining and frankly pretty funny to me.

Someone would have to be very cynical or have a heart of stone to not get quite a few decent laughs out of the dwarfs. Easily some of my favorite Disney characters ever. If you view them as an example of children (which are the target audience by and large) for children it is a pretty great learning tool for them with examples in very simple ways - cleaning your room, washing before you eat, enjoying work, etc.

10-10-2009, 09:09 PM	#30
YodasFootPowder Blu-ray Guru Top ranked HT gallery Top contributor Member since:Jan 2009 Location:Twin Cities, MN Home Theater Gallery:40 4K collection:154 Blu-ray collection:565 Blu-ray reviews: 4 Trading Score:3	I think most older movies are graded for how good they look now compared to how old they are. Most of them aren't being judged against current movies and film making. This is the best Snow White has ever looked and ever will look. So as far as video and audio go, that is why it got the scores it did. I actually think that is how it should be judged when we're talking about old movies. You can't reasonably give Snow White a 2/5 for PQ because it's obviously never going to hold a candle to movies like Cars, Monsters Inc, etc, etc... It got a 4.5/5.0 because it looks amazing for a cartoon from 1937. Disney is notoriously picky and anal when restoring their old classics and it shows. That is why it got high scores. Some people might complain that if it doesn't look perfect it shouldn't get a 4-5 for a video score. But, you have to seriously give weight to the fact that it was made in 1937 and all the masters are that old as well. Taking that into considering the PQ is nothing short of perfect. Now as far as scoring the movie (story), well, that is obviously highly subjective. But, as far as the OP, I totally see where you're coming from. Last edited by YodasFootPowder; 10-10-2009 at 09:11 PM.

10-10-2009, 11:45 PM	#35
ryoohki Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2007 Home Theater Gallery:6 Blu-ray collection:6 Blu-ray reviews:8 Trading Score:5	PQ setting should always be relative to the year they are released. Sometime it's not because they can't do it right. It's because the technolgy right now doesn't exist to make them better. Personnally i prefer 2D animation. 3D have it's share of goodness but it's share of crap too. If it wasn't for Pixar, 3D animation would be really poor right now (cartoon). IMHO CGI in movie today, most of the time is crap. I mean most of the time there's absolutly no law of physics in them and it makes a 'serious' movie look crappy. I was more impressed than the CGI in District 9 than anything released this year. Also people taste are different. I know a lot of people who love Watchmen. Personnally i found it a bore fest just like the comic, but that's my opinion. I'am not a fan of the latest batman either. I love it the first time and find it to be boring while rewatching it. There's some movies that when you know how it is. They are pretty much not watchable anymore. Some are rewachable a lot (like Spaceballs for example) Last edited by ryoohki; 10-10-2009 at 11:49 PM.

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10-10-2009, 08:16 PM	#21
Weirded Wonder Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:May 2009 Home Theater Gallery:17 4K collection:593 Blu-ray collection:1177 Trading Score:51	I think I tire of hearing of Disney's greatness. I mean, most of their films are based on some other person's works. I find them boring and unoriginal. The misses has a great problem with Disney films and their gender warping, which I completely understand. I grew up in the 70s and was around when a lot of these films were re-released and never liked them as a child either.

10-10-2009, 08:21 PM	#22
maidenbrain Active Member Member since:Oct 2008 4K collection:362 Blu-ray collection:2833 DVD collection:56 Blu-ray reviews:2	Snow White isn't my favorite Disney film and I'm not a Disney fanboy, but the animation is over-the-top amazing and the Hyperion Studio extra is one of the best ever in HD (w/ Steamboat Willy in HD) and, alone, easily worth the 9.96 plus tax I paid (plus, I got the steelbook). For animation fans, it's a must own and the PQ is easily a 4.5. I mean, seriously, how much better can it look? Think about the size of the original drawings that were photographed. Anyway, IMO, 2-D cel animation should not be compared to CG rendered animation just like stop motion animation in Harryhausen movies shouldn't be compared to CG-effects like those found in Jurassic Park. Lastly, Snow White and the Seven Dwarves was an inspiration for Argento's Suspiria.

10-10-2009, 08:28 PM	#23
assydingo Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Oct 2008 Blu-ray collection:483 DVD collection:12 Trading Score:3	Snow White and Pinocchio are fantastic. Sleeping Beauty is a tad bland.. but the animation and Maleficent make up for it.

10-10-2009, 08:53 PM	#26
Batman1980 Blu-ray Jedi Member since:Feb 2009 Location:District 13 Home Theater Gallery:8 4K collection:146 Blu-ray collection:394 DVD collection:57 Blu-ray reviews:22 Trading Score:48	Snow White, honestly? 4/5 AQ 4/5 PQ 2.6/5 story It's not the best movie story wise but it did what it was supposed to do and started a company that continues to be among the very best today at making movies that entertain one and all.

10-10-2009, 08:56 PM	#27
thegorn Member Member since:Sep 2008 Blu-ray reviews:3	I can understand rating PQ like a dry analytical robot. But as far as the movie itself, its just to subjective. It's ok to rate with feeling, even if others don't share it.

10-10-2009, 08:57 PM	#28
richieb1971 Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Aug 2007 4K collection:89 Blu-ray collection:706 Trading Score:16	When reviewing a blu ray of a catalog title the only scores which are important are those relative to its HD delivery. Of course if you have not seen the movie in question the other score factors come into place, but if you don't like animation Snow White is hardly going to catch your eye. Scores don't persuade you to like things you don't like. I do however think something as powerful as Snow white might deter some reviewers from knocking it down. I'm used to that as I guess you all are.

10-10-2009, 09:00 PM	#29
Arkham Active Member Member since:May 2009 Location:Florida Blu-ray collection:145 Trading Score:1	I believe the PQ ratings have to take into account the difference between the release and previous releases also and deservedly so. The Disney blu releases are so far in front of any previous release of the material that it really does stand out.

10-10-2009, 09:11 PM	#31
Danielle Ni Dhighe Senior Member Member since:Aug 2009 Blu-ray collection:120	It was made in 1937. Audience tastes have changed a lot since then (and not always for the better, I’d argue).

10-10-2009, 10:36 PM	#34
jamesdevil Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Oct 2009 Location:Raleigh, NC 4K collection:640 Blu-ray collection:987 DVD collection:18 MA collection:571 Digital collection:25 iTunes collection:119 Trading Score:20	No offense but giving the PQ on this release a 2.5 out of 5 pretty much spells out you don't know what you are talking about or what to look for.

10-11-2009, 12:18 AM	#36
toef Blu-ray Champion Member since:May 2008 Location:Isla Nublar 4K collection:230 Blu-ray collection:546 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:4	Whoever said they were bored to tears watching the Wizard of Oz, I'd want to know their top 10 movies. I can see why some people might be bored with Snow White, but it has to be put in context, and viewed as a movie from 1937. It shouldn't be directly compared to today's movies. Take sports as an analogy. You can't really compare an athlete today to one from 70 years ago. You have to consider the times they competed in, and the tools that were available for them to train to do what they do. Babe Ruth doesn't have the most home runs of all time, but most people would agree that he's the best home run hitter of all time. The number of home runs he hit in his day was far and above what anyone else was doing at the time. When's the last time a single baseball player had more home runs than any entire team did? Babe Ruth did that a lot. According to the Wizard of Oz commentary, the success of Snow White had a huge impact on getting the Wizard of Oz made, so for that I'm glad. And then there's the idea of giving these movies their due credit for being the seminal movies they are. Same thing goes for a movie like Citizen Kane. Just because you may not realize the importance doesn't mean it's not there. If you see them simply as stories, then of course you're not going to think they are that important. If all someone cares about is a story with some cool visuals, then there's no need to watch anything that's more than 5 years old. That being said, I think Sleeping Beauty was pretty boring.

10-11-2009, 12:52 AM	#39
Atreyu Blu-ray Knight Member since:Dec 2008 Location:North Carolina 4K collection:374 Blu-ray collection:1884 DVD collection:619 Digital collection:1 Blu-ray reviews: 299 Trading Score:4	A review is someone's opinion and not everyone is going to like the same thing. Now me I happen to love Disney animated features but I think Warner Bros. can't be beat on the shorts(Bugs Bunny, Roadrunner etc...). I think some of the reviewers' opinions comes from what was technically possible to do at the time it came out and the fact that everyone told Walt that a feature animated film was not possible. Many naysayers said the same thing to to Robert Zemeckis when he proposed the ideas for Roger Rabbit and Forest Gump. And I am still astounded at what they were able to do from a technical standpoint for The Wizard Of Oz. Sure the movie is of a different time period so the music is going to reflect that. My two favorite Disney features are Peter Pan and The Jungle Book(and I have tattoos to prove it), but musically Peter Pan is before my time, and Jungle Book is jazz oriented. So if you don't care for the style of music it will be hard for you to warm up to a classic such as Snow White. And of course animation has come a long way since Walt first opened the Disney studio doors but that is another reason to enjoy and marvel at these classics or as I like to refer to them, cinematic masterpieces.

10-11-2009, 01:10 AM	#40
jamesdevil Blu-ray Ninja Top contributor Member since:Oct 2009 Location:Raleigh, NC 4K collection:640 Blu-ray collection:987 DVD collection:18 MA collection:571 Digital collection:25 iTunes collection:119 Trading Score:20	I'm 23 and have zero 'nostalgia' for Disney (in the sense that I am reliving my childhood or whatever by viewing this films now) or anything of the sort I just like good films. I like Snow White because of its historical importance (which in turn adds to the viewing as I pay more attention to how the animation is, the sound, the voices, etc.) and it is simple, entertaining and frankly pretty funny to me. Someone would have to be very cynical or have a heart of stone to not get quite a few decent laughs out of the dwarfs. Easily some of my favorite Disney characters ever. If you view them as an example of children (which are the target audience by and large) for children it is a pretty great learning tool for them with examples in very simple ways - cleaning your room, washing before you eat, enjoying work, etc.

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