Pioneer Pro 111FD findings?

[gamebred]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

I was wondering why this set is so cheap. Now i see, it has no speakers, Not even a TV STAND? How can u not come with a tv stand? That's retarded. PLUS it has NO TV TUNERS? That is crazy, i don't have paid cable. I NEED tv's to have a QAM, HD, TV tuners because i run a regular live line from the wall and that is how i get my over the air channels. If this tv does not have a QAM/tv tuners, i would have to pay monthly for cable service. One big reason why i buy xbrs is because they all have QAM tuners on top of the tv tuners. How can i get around this without having to pay a monthly service?

Also, I saw value electronics, which was recommended to me here, they want 2000 bucks, but other places have it up to 200-250 dollars cheaper? Is the 2000 because this D NICE guy calibrates it on his own without u telling him and that extra cash is his personal charge to calibrate it? Or a can i not calibrate it myself like i do with the xbrs by getting a calibration setting from one of u or someone on a/v forum?

I'm holding off to see what u guys tell me as i value ALL ur advice, thanks

I wouldn't say it's retarded. Alot of us have HiDef cable/satellite, so a tuner isn't necessary. As for the stand, it's not always needed either. A few of us like our displays hanging on a wall...therefore we would need a wall mount kit anyways. For me, this display was perfect. I didn't need speakers on my display, plus I think the 101 and 500M look beautiful with a thin bezel and symetrical bezel going all the way around the picture...much like a picture frame. I never use the display's speakers anyway, I have a 5.1 system and dedicated receiver that handles all my sources for audio and video. I only use input 5 on the 500M, therefore I didn't need 3-5 HDMI inputs either. I don't understand why someone would buy a superior plasma display and not have a decent surround sound and receiver anyways. It defeats the whole point of a theatrical experience, IMO.

As for the tuner, one could always buy a stand alone tuner on the cheap, if they needed QAM.

Most of the dealers were offering free wall mounts/stands with these panels when I bought mine a couple months ago. I beleive Robert combines the stand in most if not all the packages he offers.

As stated D-Nice is an ISF technician that travels up and down the EastCoast calibrating many plasmas. He specializes in Pioneer. He knows these panels inside and out and is said to be the "Kuro Guru" by some. He calibrates a few panels for Robert. The results can vary depending on your enviroment. The ISF night mode is just as it sounds...this mode should be dead on no matter what enviroment as long as it gets dark where you live. Yes, he can run hot at times, but you would too if a bunch of jackasses kept asking the same stuff over and over again without reading the threads that already had thier questions answered.

To be honest, I am more than satisfied with "Pure" mode, myself. I use it for everything now. It could be a bit better with the ISF modes and calibration but it's really close as it is now. I used the Evangelo break-in slides for 150 hrs straight and used D-Nice's suggested "pure" mode reference settings. I did a few minor tweaks to suit my enviroment. It's the best looking pdp I've ever seen and I'm not just saying this because I own one, I mean it....absolutely beautiful picture and great processing with the 72hz mode when watching BDs.

[fuwa]

My BB had the 101 the last time I checked.

I have a Panasonic DVD recorder that has a tuner and it is not as good as the tuner on my Kuros so I would be cautious about just buying a monitor as a less than excellent tuner would be pointless on a premium TV.

The versatility of the 111 and 151 are good because you can watch the news or sports without having to turn on a bunch of other equipment.

Remember the 500 may be cheaper but when you add the price of a stand, speakers, and outside tuner the price goes way up. I like the speakers on the Elite Kuros as they are good for watching regular tv; for blu-ray the 5.1 system is used.

I think over the air reception results in a better picture than cable and dish. I am very happy with the picture using the old VHF/UHF antenna and it is FREE.

You might rethink the 151; it came down to $4000 recently at BB and I wouldn't be surprised to see it at $3500 sometime before it's gone.

The 151 looked huge in the store and in the home when it was first delivered but now it seems just right, definitely not too big, many bigger displays at Costco and BB.

You might go to BBs in your area and see if they have any 111 displays. Get the sales person to go on the computer and check for 111s in your district; I believe if they have it at a BB store in your district they can ship it to your BB if you want to purchase it.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Hey thanks everyone for the advice, i will take it. I'm gg to look into replacing the xbr9 with the KRP500M But u guys say it's not a tv it's a MONITOR...what's the difference? I always thought monitors were specifically designed for tv use and tvs were designed more for home use.

Also, u said this is a 10TH Gen PANEL but look at the specs i found here of it:

Specifications

TV type: Plasma
Diagonal screen size: 50 inch
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Additional features:
+ 9th-generation Kuro panel
+ Optimum mode auto A/V optimization
+ ISF C3 calibration
+ 1080p24 input-ready
+ Kuro Link (HDMI-CEC)
+ dual HDMI terminals

As u can see from the page specs, it's saying it's a 9th GEN panel, not 10TH gen which would be the same as the 111fd or the 151 no?

I've always bought xbrs and samsung lcds so i've never bought a plasma cause i was always afraid since i play a lot of ps3 and ps1 games and watch a lot of movies that i would eventually get stuck with some kind of burn in even though sets are better made nowadays but u can still get burn in playing games and watching dvd's if u leave them on pause long enough and i was told playing a lot of rpgs is what causes burn in because of the life bars, things like that. I want to make sure i'm doing the right thing so keep all the great advice coming, well appreciated

The only difference in terminology between a HD monitor and HDTV is that a HDTV comes with a tuner or tuners where as a HD monitor has no built in tuners. That is a rule that all companies are required to follow. If the model includes a built in tuner a company can label the product as a TV. If the product has no tuner in the display then a company has to label the product as a monitor. Of course on the Pioneers there are other differences between monitor models and TV models.

Pioneer never released 10th generation panels. Those unreleased 2009 10th generation panels would in theory have been around 1-1.5 inches thick and better black levels then existing 9th generation Pioneers. The so called unreleased 10th generation panels black levels would be comparable to the best high-end Front Projector that uses 9 inch CRT's (in theory around absolute black quality the 10th generation models would have been). In April of 2009 the USA Pioneer plasma factory stopped production of 2008 9th generation panels and never released 10th generation modles. On all of my posts I have never every mentioned that the Pioneer PRO-141FD, PRO-101FD,KRP-600M, and KRP-500M as a 10th generation panel (All those models are 9th generation models according to all the specs sheets I have seen). It is true that the PRO-141FD, PRO-101FD, KRP-500M, and KRP-600M were Pioneers last panels every made at the end of 2008. Models like the PRO-141FD and PRO-101FD were released in November 2008. For marketing buzz words some dealers have called the panels 10th generation models since they are one of Pioneers best plasmas. In away since the main 9th generation panels came out in the summer of 2008 and the 2.5 inch thick models came out in November 2008 one might be able to debate that the latest panels are 9.5 generation models. Then for rounding purposes some dealers can call the panels 10th generation models. Some dealers claim the 2.5 inch thick 9th generation panels use some technology that was going to be used in the unreleased 10th generation Pioneer panels. Perhaps that might be true.

Here is links to spec sheets or professional reviews on all the 9th generation 2008 Pioneer models released.

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-101FD 50” Plasma (72HZ)

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-141FD 60” Plasma (72HZ)

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD 50” Plasma (72HZ)

Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD 60” Plasma (72HZ)

Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD 50” Plasma (72HZ)

Pioneer Kuro PDP-6020FD 60” Plasma (72HZ)

Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M 50” Plasma (72HZ)

Pioneer Kuro KRP-600M 60” Plasma (72HZ)

If you plan on using the Pioneer for videogames I would limit game playing for around 2 hours. If you turn on the Orbiter 2 mode with game mode the Pioneer will be fine for games. The Orbiter 2 mode works great for people that watch a lot of network TV with logos. I know people that leave the Orbiter 2 mode on all the time and watch Fox News for 8 hours or other network programming and there is no burn in issues.
If you plan on playing videogames for 8 or more hours a day you might want to purchase a 46 inch or 55 inch Samsung UN55B8500 (LCD with Locacl Dimming LED backlighting) instead of the hard to find Pioneer models. CNET review mentions that it is the second best flat panel available right under the quality of the Pioneer. Click on the following review for details:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=2500236&postcount=843

When purchasing a modern HDTV they are all required to come with ATSC tuners. Most will also have clear QAM tuners also. Some displays to save on cost do not come with tuners and are called monitors. For example the PRO-141FD is Pioneers flagship model. It lists for $7,000 plus $400 list price for the table top stand. If it would have came with tuners, built in stereo amp, speakers, and a table top stand it would have had a list price somewhere between $8,000-$10,000. So Pioneer decided to keep the costs lower on the PRO-141FD and leave those feature off. Also some people do not want a table top stand and prefer the $350 wall mount. By eliminating an audio section in the PRO-101FD and PRO-141FD the video quality can be improved since the panel is dedicated for video only. Also when engineers are design panels they can make them thinner by not including tuners and audio sections in the design. Some of the so called 1 inch thick displays sold today by other brands require a external media box about the size of a cable box since part of the electronics are external on the TV in order to make them around 1 inch thick. Samsung was able to make a 2009 plasma screen that is only 1.2 inches thick without a media box, of course the picture quality is not as good as a Pioneer.

If you need an external ATSC with QAM tuner that is 1080I quality there is only a few companies that make a product like that. They sell for around $100-$150 on EBAY. Most external ATSC/QAM tuners are low quality and down convert everything to 480i quality.

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

I was wondering why this set is so cheap. Now i see, it has no speakers, Not even a TV STAND? How can u not come with a tv stand? That's retarded. PLUS it has NO TV TUNERS? That is crazy, i don't have paid cable. I NEED tv's to have a QAM, HD, TV tuners because i run a regular live line from the wall and that is how i get my over the air channels. If this tv does not have a QAM/tv tuners, i would have to pay monthly for cable service. One big reason why i buy xbrs is because they all have QAM tuners on top of the tv tuners. How can i get around this without having to pay a monthly service?

Also, I saw value electronics, which was recommended to me here, they want 2000 bucks, but other places have it up to 200-250 dollars cheaper? Is the 2000 because this D NICE guy calibrates it on his own without u telling him and that extra cash is his personal charge to calibrate it? Or a can i not calibrate it myself like i do with the xbrs by getting a calibration setting from one of u or someone on a/v forum?

I'm holding off to see what u guys tell me as i value ALL ur advice, thanks

The KRP-500M is the best deal out there and THE best picture you will get. I was fortunate to grab one from a seller on Ebay for $1700 shipped with the stand included. As these become scarce the price is going up. No, this set does not include speakers or a tuner, but I didn't need either. Most sellers include a free wall mount or table top stand with these sets. Technically the KRP-500M is not a TV. Its a monitor...Kuro Reference Panel. Its also a lot thinner than the other Kuro's.

If you have a surround sound setup then there's no need for speakers. If you don't have a sound system then you can plug speakers directly into the set since there is a speaker output. I have a computer connected to my set and my solution for the tuner was to get a USB HDTV tuner off of Ebay. It was like $50 shipped and it works like a charm.

Yes, this is a 9th Gen set, but it also has some of the unreleased 10th Gen tech in it. The 101FD also features this tech. No other 9th Gen set has this technology which is why these two sets give even deeper blacks than the rest of the 9th Gen sets. You ask who D-Nice is...he is a very respected ISF certified calibrator who has been in the business for many years. You can find him as well as other highly regarded calibrators over on avsforum. These guys live and breath TV's and can tell you pretty much anything about nearly every set out there.

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Thanks for all the advice. LOVE learning new things. A LOT of knowledge here. After reading these last two posts, i looked up some reviews and spec and realized that as good as this 500m is, it's not worth getting a monitor since i will have to deal with getting a qam/atsc/ntsc tuner which will downgrade the pic....so what's the point of that. I will use it for tv watching from over the air channels which is free so it saves me from paying an extra bill, so i gotta have a tv with the 3 tuners built in. I don't care about the speakers cause i have a denon 4308 receiver with polk monitor 50's all around so that's no issue, the stand yes i need. No choice but to skip on the monitor. Price was great and i almost pulled the trigger but the tuners were the deal breaker. So now i'm back to the pioneer 111 because that one does have the tuners. I understand the 151 is the same as well so i'm going to see if i can find that one cheaper and if i can, i'll pull the trigger on that one although i'm still a bit leary as to how HUGE it will be in a NYC Studio apartment. TOO bad i cant get a 111 or 151 withOUT the speakers to save money.

I just came from best buys and asked about the 111 and the jerk laughed when i asked about that. I wanted to punchhim in the face for that. N E way, he said best buys do not carry 111 anymore BUT they can still get a 151 but it's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYy expensive, not even close to 4000. bucks.

Is this 151 or 111 that much of an upgrade to the xbr9 or the Samsung UN55B5800 because i read that the un55b5800 is not a TRUE led and that's is EDGE lit which causes light centering issues and that it can be off light wise in the middle. Also i read the xbr8 is a trimulous led and is a better led then the samsung one mentioned above. Is this 111 or the 151 that much of a jump over them? Cause i want the best tv possible. thanks

[ajvdbg]

If you want the best HDTV (not a monitor) than you will have to steer clear of Kuro unfortunately as it would be very difficult to find anything but a Kuro monitor (and even these are getting harder to come by).

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Thanks for all the advice. LOVE learning new things. A LOT of knowledge here. After reading these last two posts, i looked up some reviews and spec and realized that as good as this 500m is, it's not worth getting a monitor since i will have to deal with getting a qam/atsc/ntsc tuner which will downgrade the pic....so what's the point of that. I will use it for tv watching from over the air channels which is free so it saves me from paying an extra bill, so i gotta have a tv with the 3 tuners built in. I don't care about the speakers cause i have a denon 4308 receiver with polk monitor 50's all around so that's no issue, the stand yes i need. No choice but to skip on the monitor. Price was great and i almost pulled the trigger but the tuners were the deal breaker. So now i'm back to the pioneer 111 because that one does have the tuners. I understand the 151 is the same as well so i'm going to see if i can find that one cheaper and if i can, i'll pull the trigger on that one although i'm still a bit leary as to how HUGE it will be in a NYC Studio apartment. TOO bad i cant get a 111 or 151 withOUT the speakers to save money.

I just came from best buys and asked about the 111 and the jerk laughed when i asked about that. I wanted to punchhim in the face for that. N E way, he said best buys do not carry 111 anymore BUT they can still get a 151 but it's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYy expensive, not even close to 4000. bucks.

Is this 151 or 111 that much of an upgrade to the xbr9 or the Samsung UN55B5800 because i read that the un55b5800 is not a TRUE led and that's is EDGE lit which causes light centering issues and that it can be off light wise in the middle. Also i read the xbr8 is a trimulous led and is a better led then the samsung one mentioned above. Is this 111 or the 151 that much of a jump over them? Cause i want the best tv possible. thanks

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Thanks for all the advice. LOVE learning new things. A LOT of knowledge here. After reading these last two posts, i looked up some reviews and spec and realized that as good as this 500m is, it's not worth getting a monitor since i will have to deal with getting a qam/atsc/ntsc tuner which will downgrade the pic....so what's the point of that. I will use it for tv watching from over the air channels which is free so it saves me from paying an extra bill, so i gotta have a tv with the 3 tuners built in. I don't care about the speakers cause i have a denon 4308 receiver with polk monitor 50's all around so that's no issue, the stand yes i need. No choice but to skip on the monitor. Price was great and i almost pulled the trigger but the tuners were the deal breaker. So now i'm back to the pioneer 111 because that one does have the tuners. I understand the 151 is the same as well so i'm going to see if i can find that one cheaper and if i can, i'll pull the trigger on that one although i'm still a bit leary as to how HUGE it will be in a NYC Studio apartment. TOO bad i cant get a 111 or 151 withOUT the speakers to save money.

I just came from best buys and asked about the 111 and the jerk laughed when i asked about that. I wanted to punchhim in the face for that. N E way, he said best buys do not carry 111 anymore BUT they can still get a 151 but it's WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYy expensive, not even close to 4000. bucks.

Is this 151 or 111 that much of an upgrade to the xbr9 or the Samsung UN55B5800 because i read that the un55b5800 is not a TRUE led and that's is EDGE lit which causes light centering issues and that it can be off light wise in the middle. Also i read the xbr8 is a trimulous led and is a better led then the samsung one mentioned above. Is this 111 or the 151 that much of a jump over them? Cause i want the best tv possible. thanks

The only standalone external 1080I quality HD ATSC/QAM tuner in production that also includes a HDMI output is the DTV5000HD as far as I am aware. As far as I am aware no other company is making 1080I quality external ATSC/QAM tuners unless you want to go with a paid service like TIVO, HD Cable Box, or HD satellite. There is an EBAY dealer from Canada that sells the DTV5000HD for only $75.99 plus $19.99 for shipping. I plan on purchasing one of these in the next month or two most likely for a Pioneer Elite Signature series monitor since I currently do only BLU-RAY watching now. It would be nice to watch local HD ATSC broadcasts and QAM signals in 1080I and 720P quality. Other family members use Pioneer monitors connected to Motorola Verizon FIOS HD cablebox, but after seeing and hearing Blu-ray I do not want a HD Motorola cable box with a subscription rental fee since I would hardly use it. Maybe in the future I will do a very brief review if I purchase the HD tuner from Canada. It is a big disappointment that almost all companies are only making 480I ATSC external tuners since they are cheaper. The government DTV coupon program encouraged manufactories to only make 480I ATSC DTV boxes instead of 1080I ATSC DTV boxes. People that used the $40 coupons could only purchase 480I DTV boxes with them. There are several millions of old HDTV's that do not include a ATSC or QAM tuner and consumers generally end up connecting 480I ATSC DTV boxes to those TV's.
http://cgi.ebay.com/DIGIWAVE-ATSC-HD-TUNER-CONVERTER-EPG-DTV-HDTV-HDMI-TV_W0QQitemZ250523962441QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item3a54644c49

In generally a NTSC tuner is not needed anymore. NTSC is only used by some cable companies for a few select analog channels. If you plan on using a outdoor TV antenna 100% of all full power stations use ATSC. Verizon FIOS uses 100% digital QAM with their Fiber to the side of the house system. If your cable company still uses NTSC then you would need to have two external tuners unless you are able to find one box that does ATSC/QAM/NTSC.


If you go with the PRO-151FD which includes ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners then you could detach and remove the speakers from the side to make the display smaller in size. Almost 10 inches of width is reduced when the speakers are removed.

The Samsung UN55B8500 and UN46B8500 models do not use "Edge-Lit" backlighting. The 8500 series uses LED Local Dimming backlighting. Read the following review for more details
Samsung UN55B8500 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 240HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

According the the CNET review the latest 2009 UN55B8500 has a better picture quality when compared to the 2008 Sony XBR8 series: Read the following summary for details:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=2500236&postcount=843

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Originally Posted by Blove23

You don't have nuts to beat up a Best Buy rep. You sound tough, but you didn't get the Pro-111fd loser...

That's not what ur motha is saying right here while i have her bentova. She says she was DRUNK when she had u and u were the druggie loser. I'll send her home when i'm done ok hun

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The only standalone external 1080I quality HD ATSC/QAM tuner in production that also includes a HDMI output is the DTV5000HD as far as I am aware. As far as I am aware no other company is making 1080I quality external ATSC/QAM tuners unless you want to go with a paid service like TIVO, HD Cable Box, or HD satellite. There is an EBAY dealer from Canada that sells the DTV5000HD for only $75.99 plus $19.99 for shipping. I plan on purchasing one of these in the next month or two most likely for a Pioneer Elite Signature series monitor since I currently do only BLU-RAY watching now. It would be nice to watch local HD ATSC broadcasts and QAM signals in 1080I and 720P quality. Other family members use Pioneer monitors connected to Motorola Verizon FIOS HD cablebox, but after seeing and hearing Blu-ray I do not want a HD Motorola cable box with a subscription rental fee since I would hardly use it. Maybe in the future I will do a very brief review if I purchase the HD tuner from Canada. It is a big disappointment that almost all companies are only making 480I ATSC external tuners since they are cheaper. The government DTV coupon program encouraged manufactories to only make 480I ATSC DTV boxes instead of 1080I ATSC DTV boxes. People that used the $40 coupons could only purchase 480I DTV boxes with them. There are several millions of old HDTV's that do not include a ATSC or QAM tuner and consumers generally end up connecting 480I ATSC DTV boxes to those TV's.
http://cgi.ebay.com/DIGIWAVE-ATSC-HD-TUNER-CONVERTER-EPG-DTV-HDTV-HDMI-TV_W0QQitemZ250523962441QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item3a54644c49

In generally a NTSC tuner is not needed anymore. NTSC is only used by some cable companies for a few select analog channels. If you plan on using a outdoor TV antenna 100% of all full power stations use ATSC. Verizon FIOS uses 100% digital QAM with their Fiber to the side of the house system. If your cable company still uses NTSC then you would need to have two external tuners unless you are able to find one box that does ATSC/QAM/NTSC.


If you go with the PRO-151FD which includes ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuners then you could detach and remove the speakers from the side to make the display smaller in size. Almost 10 inches of width is reduced when the speakers are removed.

The Samsung UN55B8500 and UN46B8500 models do not use "Edge-Lit" backlighting. The 8500 series uses LED Local Dimming backlighting. Read the following review for more details
Samsung UN55B8500 (1080P/24 correctly refreshed at 240HZ when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) is turned off)

According the the CNET review the latest 2009 UN55B8500 has a better picture quality when compared to the 2008 Sony XBR8 series: Read the following summary for details:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=2500236&postcount=843

I guess it depends on what reviews u read cause some say the xbr10 is supposed to be the BEST LCD now and others are saying the unb8500 is the best.....it has to be one of those two.

U think that canada box that u said has a built in QAM will degrade the picture quality because this is going to sound a bit retarded BUT one of my boys has fios with the new lq, my other boy has the samsung 850 with satelite and i have over the air but i had rcn and time warner b4. CAn u believe my OVER THE AIR picture is BETTER than the time warner and rcn HD boxes i had and BETTER looking then my boys FIOS AND my other boys SATELLITE.....and those are supposed to be the best HD boxes they have. Its weird but over the air is so much better than the paid cable versions, why is that?

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

I guess it depends on what reviews u read cause some say the xbr10 is supposed to be the BEST LCD now and others are saying the unb8500 is the best.....it has to be one of those two.

U think that canada box that u said has a built in QAM will degrade the picture quality because this is going to sound a bit retarded BUT one of my boys has fios with the new lq, my other boy has the samsung 850 with satelite and i have over the air but i had rcn and time warner b4. CAn u believe my OVER THE AIR picture is BETTER than the time warner and rcn HD boxes i had and BETTER looking then my boys FIOS AND my other boys SATELLITE.....and those are supposed to be the best HD boxes they have. Its weird but over the air is so much better than the paid cable versions, why is that?

The XBR10 is nowhere near the best in picture quality. Its a solid set at best IMO. Its color accuracy is OK and the blacks are OK, but there's nothing groundbreaking with its picture at all. The B8500 is leagues beyond that set. Take a look HERE at Chad B.'s reviews for some of more current sets. Notice the XBR10 isn't even considered here. Its probably because the XBR9 came in dead last at the last HDTV Shootout which featured many of the sets that are reviewed by Chad B. on his site. He may review it, but everything I've seen on it is rather lackluster. The XBR9 was a dud and the XBR10 is too. They the removed local dimming that the XBR8 featured to slim it up and give you wireless. Have you seen the price on that thing?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

I guess it depends on what reviews u read cause some say the xbr10 is supposed to be the BEST LCD now and others are saying the unb8500 is the best.....it has to be one of those two.

U think that canada box that u said has a built in QAM will degrade the picture quality because this is going to sound a bit retarded BUT one of my boys has fios with the new lq, my other boy has the samsung 850 with satelite and i have over the air but i had rcn and time warner b4. CAn u believe my OVER THE AIR picture is BETTER than the time warner and rcn HD boxes i had and BETTER looking then my boys FIOS AND my other boys SATELLITE.....and those are supposed to be the best HD boxes they have. Its weird but over the air is so much better than the paid cable versions, why is that?

Where are you seeing a review on the Sony XBR10? I know Home Theater magazine and CNET have not reviewed that model yet. The Sony XBR10 LCD uses "Edge Lit" LED backlighting and comes with a required wireless media box to make the display 2 3/8 inches thick. The XBR10 comes in 52 inch and 46 inch sizes. http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langI d=-1&productId=8198552921665981657#specifications

I have not personally seen the XBR10 yet but in theory the Sony XBR8 should have a better picture since it uses LCD with "Local Dimming" LED backlighting versus "Edge Lit". Of course in the future some "Edge Lit" displays might have better picture quality then some low end "Local Dimming" models, but historically so far Local Dimming LED's are better. Even though the Sony XBR8 is an excellent 2008 model they got some complaints from consumers that it was 5.9 inches thick. Back in 2008 and up to September 2009 those that only wanted the best LCD picture quality did not care that the XBR8 was 5.9 inches thick. Since most mainstream consumers are more interested in how thin the display is Sony decided to switch to "Edge Lit" this year since it can be made cheaper and thinner. Hopefully sometime in late 2010 Sony will offer a "Local Dimming model". The Samsung UNB8500 is the current king of LCD's for picture quality (Of course I have not seen the XBR10 yet but I doubt the Sony Edge-Lit model will beat a Samsung Local Dimming model).

Some of the user reviews on the Canada HD box were good over at AVS forum. It is suppose to use Samsungs 5th generation QAM/ATSC tuner but I have not opened one up yet to verify that claim. Most cable companies compression the over the air broadcast signals and squeeze more channels into less bandwidth since they have limited bandwidth. The Verizon FIOS local SD and HD channels are suppose to be exactly the same bit for bit as the original over the air broadcast. My understanding is that Verizon's Fiber to the side of the house gives them more bandwidth then Cable, Dish Network, and Direct TV combined. Hopefully Verizon will offer 1080P/24 video on demand channels in the future like Direct TV. Since Blu-ray uses much higher bit rate for video and audio the quality is even better then Verizon.

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Ok after all the posts, here is what i've decided.....i'm getting rid of the xbr9. Here are my 2 choices:

1)Samsung un46b8500 (the 55 is a bit much).

2)Pioneer KRP500M WITH the CANADA HD TUNER BOX.


The dilema with the 2nd choice is i don't have paypal and that is all the guy takes as payment as i've had issues with paypal so i don't mess with them and they don't take credit cards. I was trying to find someone else that sells that box for the same price but i found a similar box on amazon.com that looks almost identical and states it does the same thing that the canada box does but i'm not sure. Also Is that CAnada HD box going to work with NO ISSUES for a US TV with no extra kind of volt converter or something to that affect?

Also it was recommended here if i do get the krp500m, i can use the orbiter 2 feature and never have to worry about burn in since all i do is play rpgs for hours and watch blu rays and dvd movies. But then i wouldn't be able to use the day/night feature or pure mode cause then i will always have to leave it on orbiter 2 right, which means i can't do much picture wise with it.

With the sammy i never have to worry about burn in or changing modes from orbiter 2 to day/night and it will have the tuners in already BUT i won't get that PERFECT pic that everyone is raving over. No matter what i will use over the air and not pay for cable channels and i do remember that when i did have the timewarner and rcn cable service, for whatever reason, my cURREnt over the air free cable looks WAY better than that paid HD cable box service which shouldn't be the case at all.

Which of the 2 setups above would u guys go for and why? The krp500m with that canada box will tally almost the same amount of cash as the sammy since ebay has that sammy for 2000. plus 200 to ship it while video electronics has the krm500m with stand and delivery for 2000 plus another 100 bucks for the canada converter....so it's like 100 bucks difference.

What do u guys think?

[lojack1976]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Ok after all the posts, here is what i've decided.....i'm getting rid of the xbr9. Here are my 2 choices:

1)Samsung un46b8500 (the 55 is a bit much).

2)Pioneer KRP500M WITH the CANADA HD TUNER BOX.


The dilema with the 2nd choice is i don't have paypal and that is all the guy takes as payment as i've had issues with paypal so i don't mess with them and they don't take credit cards. I was trying to find someone else that sells that box for the same price but i found a similar box on amazon.com that looks almost identical and states it does the same thing that the canada box does but i'm not sure. Also Is that CAnada HD box going to work with NO ISSUES for a US TV with no extra kind of volt converter or something to that affect?

Also it was recommended here if i do get the krp500m, i can use the orbiter 2 feature and never have to worry about burn in since all i do is play rpgs for hours and watch blu rays and dvd movies. But then i wouldn't be able to use the day/night feature or pure mode cause then i will always have to leave it on orbiter 2 right, which means i can't do much picture wise with it.

With the sammy i never have to worry about burn in or changing modes from orbiter 2 to day/night and it will have the tuners in already BUT i won't get that PERFECT pic that everyone is raving over. No matter what i will use over the air and not pay for cable channels and i do remember that when i did have the timewarner and rcn cable service, for whatever reason, my cURREnt over the air free cable looks WAY better than that paid HD cable box service which shouldn't be the case at all.

Which of the 2 setups above would u guys go for and why? The krp500m with that canada box will tally almost the same amount of cash as the sammy since ebay has that sammy for 2000. plus 200 to ship it while video electronics has the krm500m with stand and delivery for 2000 plus another 100 bucks for the canada converter....so it's like 100 bucks difference.

What do u guys think?

I personally use THESE settings on it and I don't get any retention at all. I don't even switch to a daylight setting since I like these settings for day and night use.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Ok after all the posts, here is what i've decided.....i'm getting rid of the xbr9. Here are my 2 choices:

1)Samsung un46b8500 (the 55 is a bit much).

2)Pioneer KRP500M WITH the CANADA HD TUNER BOX.


The dilema with the 2nd choice is i don't have paypal and that is all the guy takes as payment as i've had issues with paypal so i don't mess with them and they don't take credit cards. I was trying to find someone else that sells that box for the same price but i found a similar box on amazon.com that looks almost identical and states it does the same thing that the canada box does but i'm not sure. Also Is that CAnada HD box going to work with NO ISSUES for a US TV with no extra kind of volt converter or something to that affect?

Also it was recommended here if i do get the krp500m, i can use the orbiter 2 feature and never have to worry about burn in since all i do is play rpgs for hours and watch blu rays and dvd movies. But then i wouldn't be able to use the day/night feature or pure mode cause then i will always have to leave it on orbiter 2 right, which means i can't do much picture wise with it.

With the sammy i never have to worry about burn in or changing modes from orbiter 2 to day/night and it will have the tuners in already BUT i won't get that PERFECT pic that everyone is raving over. No matter what i will use over the air and not pay for cable channels and i do remember that when i did have the timewarner and rcn cable service, for whatever reason, my cURREnt over the air free cable looks WAY better than that paid HD cable box service which shouldn't be the case at all.

Which of the 2 setups above would u guys go for and why? The krp500m with that canada box will tally almost the same amount of cash as the sammy since ebay has that sammy for 2000. plus 200 to ship it while video electronics has the krm500m with stand and delivery for 2000 plus another 100 bucks for the canada converter....so it's like 100 bucks difference.

What do u guys think?

The DigiWAV company that makes the HD quality DTV-5000HD is located in Canada. Here is the specs on the ATSC/QAM tuner with HDMI output.
http://www.digiwavetechnologies.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page &PAGE_id=450

Canada is on the exact same TV system and voltage as the United States. This unit will work in the United States. Samsung use to make a HD quality DTB-H260F that was both a ATSC and QAM tuner with HDMI but that went out of production.

I did some more searching and there is now another brand to choose from that uses HDMI 1.3b with a ATSC and QAM tuner that is true HD quality. They just came out with the new model on December 3rd 2009 according to the press release . There old models were only DVI.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/12/prweb3293254.htm

The following is the spec sheet for the new model:
http://www.epvision.com/Documents/PHD_STB_compareN.pdf

So here are your choices for true HD tuners:

1. DigiWav DTV-5000HD (around $75.99 on EBAY and perhaps other Canada dealers): Uses HDMI (version unknown). Supports ATSC and cable clear QAM. No cable NTSC tuner.
http://www.digiwavetechnologies.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page &PAGE_id=450

2. ePVision PHD-205LE ($139.95) Uses HDMI 1.3b, Supports ATSC and clear QAM. No cable NTSC tuner. http://www.epvision.com/HDTVSTB/phd205LEmain.htm

3. ePVision PHD-205 ($149.95) This third option is only if your cable company still offers analog NTSC channels. If you have a cable company like Verizon FIOS then they are 100% QAM. This box does not have HDMI but DVI. The Pioneer KRP-500M has a DVI input with HDCP support. The only advantage of this model is that it has 3 tuner modes. It supports ATSC and clear QAM, plus analog NTSC cable. http://www.epvision.com/HDTVSTB/phd205main.htm


In answer to your Pioneer and Samsung TV questions

The orbiter 2 feature can be used with any other picture modes on the Pioneer. It is only the Orbiter 1 that does not work with the dot by dot mode. You can use pure mode and Dot by Dot and the Pioneer plasma will be protected against burn in when orbiter 2 is turned on. There are several menu settings on the Pioneer. The orbiter 2 can be used 100% of the time no matter what the other setting are set too.


If your goal is to have the best possible picture then the Pioneer plasma would be the best choice. The KRP-500M allows one to plug in optional side speakers. 50 inches is the minimum size screen that many experts recommended for 1080P. The KRP-500M is not perfect. It only has 2 HDMI inputs as a cost saving measure. If you plan on routing everything to a A/V receiver then you most likely will only be using one HDMI input anyway. The 46 inch Samsung UNB8500 does not have as good as picture as the Pioneer but it does have the built in tuners and speakers. Of course the Samsung internal speakers do not sound that good compared Pioneer side speakers. Pioneer makes the best sounding speakers of any flat panel according to several reviews. If you are going to use a stereo system or surround system, then speakers built in a flat panel are not important. Pioneer has good build quality also. Both the Pioneer plasma and Samsung UNB8500 are both good displays. You will need to decide which one will be better for you. The Pioneer is 2.5 inches thick and that new Samsung model is 1.6 inches thick.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Is this 151 or 111 that much of an upgrade to the xbr9 or the Samsung UN55B5800 because i read that the un55b5800 is not a TRUE led and that's is EDGE lit which causes light centering issues and that it can be off light wise in the middle. Also i read the xbr8 is a trimulous led and is a better led then the samsung one mentioned above. Is this 111 or the 151 that much of a jump over them? Cause i want the best tv possible. thanks

There is a recognizable difference - the Pioneer is just that good. I have a Sony XBR4 52", so I"m not an LCD hater, and I've watched their later generation gear with interest - but I wound up with the 151.

Never looked back. Hands down, the best television made, and I'm not saying that because I bought it; I'm saying it because it's true.

[ReggaetonSalsero]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

The DigiWAV company that makes the HD quality DTV-5000HD is located in Canada. Here is the specs on the ATSC/QAM tuner with HDMI output.
http://www.digiwavetechnologies.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page &PAGE_id=450

Canada is on the exact same TV system and voltage as the United States. This unit will work in the United States. Samsung use to make a HD quality DTB-H260F that was both a ATSC and QAM tuner with HDMI but that went out of production.

I did some more searching and there is now another brand to choose from that uses HDMI 1.3b with a ATSC and QAM tuner that is true HD quality. They just came out with the new model on December 3rd 2009 according to the press release . There old models were only DVI.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/12/prweb3293254.htm

The following is the spec sheet for the new model:
http://www.epvision.com/Documents/PHD_STB_compareN.pdf

So here are your choices for true HD tuners:

1. DigiWav DTV-5000HD (around $75.99 on EBAY and perhaps other Canada dealers): Uses HDMI (version unknown). Supports ATSC and cable clear QAM. No cable NTSC tuner.
http://www.digiwavetechnologies.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page &PAGE_id=450

2. ePVision PHD-205LE ($139.95) Uses HDMI 1.3b, Supports ATSC and clear QAM. No cable NTSC tuner. http://www.epvision.com/HDTVSTB/phd205LEmain.htm

3. ePVision PHD-205 ($149.95) This third option is only if your cable company still offers analog NTSC channels. If you have a cable company like Verizon FIOS then they are 100% QAM. This box does not have HDMI but DVI. The Pioneer KRP-500M has a DVI input with HDCP support. The only advantage of this model is that it has 3 tuner modes. It supports ATSC and clear QAM, plus analog NTSC cable. http://www.epvision.com/HDTVSTB/phd205main.htm


In answer to your Pioneer and Samsung TV questions

The orbiter 2 feature can be used with any other picture modes on the Pioneer. It is only the Orbiter 1 that does not work with the dot by dot mode. You can use pure mode and Dot by Dot and the Pioneer plasma will be protected against burn in when orbiter 2 is turned on. There are several menu settings on the Pioneer. The orbiter 2 can be used 100% of the time no matter what the other setting are set too.


If your goal is to have the best possible picture then the Pioneer plasma would be the best choice. The KRP-500M allows one to plug in optional side speakers. 50 inches is the minimum size screen that many experts recommended for 1080P. The KRP-500M is not perfect. It only has 2 HDMI inputs as a cost saving measure. If you plan on routing everything to a A/V receiver then you most likely will only be using one HDMI input anyway. The 46 inch Samsung UNB8500 does not have as good as picture as the Pioneer but it does have the built in tuners and speakers. Of course the Samsung internal speakers do not sound that good compared Pioneer side speakers. Pioneer makes the best sounding speakers of any flat panel according to several reviews. If you are going to use a stereo system or surround system, then speakers built in a flat panel are not important. Pioneer has good build quality also. Both the Pioneer plasma and Samsung UNB8500 are both good displays. You will need to decide which one will be better for you. The Pioneer is 2.5 inches thick and that new Samsung model is 1.6 inches thick.

Man ur freakin' amazing man...i tried looking up for better boxes and couldn't find what u did. I am leaning towards the the pioneer now that u were kind enough to find those 2 new boxes for me...thanks. If i get the pioneer i will skip out on the Canada box and get one of the last too. I wish that last one was not dvi and was hdmi since it has all 3 tuners. My over the air cable connection still shows some analog channels although i don't really need it so that alone my push me towards the 2nd box with the hdmi 1.3b....which reminds me...i went to monoprice.com to replace my cat. 2 1.3a hdmis with the b's but i couldn't find them there.....u know where they have them? To my understanding, the b's are better because it allows u to watch tv through ur connected receiver WITHOUT having to add an extra optical or coaxial cable for sound like i have to do now.

I was also thinking, if i get the pioneer and the boxes.....i wonder if my denon 4308 remote will control all that. I know ur going to recommend a harmony remote BUT i've had the 1000 twice, the 890 most recently as well and they somehow all gave me issues and it took forever to change everything. It didn't control as good as this denons remote. There are so many bad reviews on this denons remote yet for me, it controls EVERYTHING with no problem. It works better than those 3 harmonies i had. I'm wondering if i will open up a can of worms with another tv and cable tuner box to have to control with it.

Ok so since i'm leaning more towards the krp500m, i'm thinkg about buying it from value electronics. They want 2000 delivered with the stand included. I forgot to ask them if that includes d nices calibration pre purchased. So ur saying i can leave it on orbiter 2 forever and still have it calibrated on a different setting? Exactly what does that orbiter 2 do anyway? Will it affect the picture quality if i leave it on there? I've never had a plasma...always buying the newer xbrs everytime they've come out....i've had most of them and the samsungs. I'm just hoping if i do go this route that those new tuner boxes dont end up down converting my picture as there is going to be a lot of connections bet. the my 4308 denon, the tv, the tuner box, a vcr/dvd combo, ps3, wii, etc.

Ok what about what i read earlier about having to break this in? Something about having to use some kind of 150 hour breakin method plus disk? I've never had to any of this wit my lcd's so i am asking for some clarification on this one.

I did find the pioneer cheaper than 2000 that value electronics wants but no stand plus if d nice pre calibrates it, then hey it would be worth it....i was thinking of waiting b4 xmas to hopefully see if they drop the price. What do u think?

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

Man ur freakin' amazing man...i tried looking up for better boxes and couldn't find what u did. I am leaning towards the the pioneer now that u were kind enough to find those 2 new boxes for me...thanks. If i get the pioneer i will skip out on the Canada box and get one of the last too. I wish that last one was not dvi and was hdmi since it has all 3 tuners. My over the air cable connection still shows some analog channels although i don't really need it so that alone my push me towards the 2nd box with the hdmi 1.3b....which reminds me...i went to monoprice.com to replace my cat. 2 1.3a hdmis with the b's but i couldn't find them there.....u know where they have them? To my understanding, the b's are better because it allows u to watch tv through ur connected receiver WITHOUT having to add an extra optical or coaxial cable for sound like i have to do now.

I was also thinking, if i get the pioneer and the boxes.....i wonder if my denon 4308 remote will control all that. I know ur going to recommend a harmony remote BUT i've had the 1000 twice, the 890 most recently as well and they somehow all gave me issues and it took forever to change everything. It didn't control as good as this denons remote. There are so many bad reviews on this denons remote yet for me, it controls EVERYTHING with no problem. It works better than those 3 harmonies i had. I'm wondering if i will open up a can of worms with another tv and cable tuner box to have to control with it.

Ok so since i'm leaning more towards the krp500m, i'm thinkg about buying it from value electronics. They want 2000 delivered with the stand included. I forgot to ask them if that includes d nices calibration pre purchased. So ur saying i can leave it on orbiter 2 forever and still have it calibrated on a different setting? Exactly what does that orbiter 2 do anyway? Will it affect the picture quality if i leave it on there? I've never had a plasma...always buying the newer xbrs everytime they've come out....i've had most of them and the samsungs. I'm just hoping if i do go this route that those new tuner boxes dont end up down converting my picture as there is going to be a lot of connections bet. the my 4308 denon, the tv, the tuner box, a vcr/dvd combo, ps3, wii, etc.

Ok what about what i read earlier about having to break this in? Something about having to use some kind of 150 hour breakin method plus disk? I've never had to any of this wit my lcd's so i am asking for some clarification on this one.

I did find the pioneer cheaper than 2000 that value electronics wants but no stand plus if d nice pre calibrates it, then hey it would be worth it....i was thinking of waiting b4 xmas to hopefully see if they drop the price. What do u think?

That is interesting you still have a few low power over the air NTSC channels in your area. Many people I know do not have NTSC channels anymore. Back on June 12th 2009 it was only 100% of full power stations that switched to ATSC in the United States. In the future most likely the low power stations will try to get permission from the FCC to switch to ATSC and perhaps even be upgraded to medium or full power. So one day those low power NTSC stations in the USA will switch to ATSC also. People that live near the Canada and Mexico border will also get a few NTSC channels. Canada is not scheduled to switch to 100% ATSC until August 2011. Mexico is scheduled to switch to 100% ATSC on December 31 2021. If you are still receiving NTSC broadcasts you might want to go with the 3 tuner version with DVI. DVI has the same picture quality as HDMI but of course when ran to a A/V receiver a DVI to HDMI adapter needs to be used along with a separate digital audio cable for the digital audio output from the tuner box.

All versions of HDMI including HDMI 1.0 will pass video and audio. Some older consumer products do not always fully support audio over HDMI. HDMI 1.3 and later are more reliable products and have less HDCP HDMI handshaking problems. Also DTS-HD Master audio and Dolby True HD bitstreams are supported with HDMI version 1.3. Of course those are BLU-RAY audio formats. Any low or high bandwidth HDMI cable will work with an external tuner. All HD tuner boxes use lower bandwidth compared to high bandwidth BLU-RAY. Any HDMI cable should work fine with a HD tuner box. There are many new features found in the HDMI 1.3 specs. Just because a product has HDMI 1.3 does not mean the product will use all those features. HDMI 1.3 has automatic lip sync features. For a complete information about the different HDMI versions including HDMI 1.3 and greater see the following links:
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Any IR learning remote will work with the HD tuners and all other IR devices. The Pioneer PRO-101FD and KRP-500M both come with a nice remote that has learning functions if the preset functions codes do not work for a certain brand. There are all kinds of nice learning IR and RF remotes on the market to choose from.

The Orbiter feature being turned on after calibration will not mess with the calibration. All the Orbiter does is slightly changes the position of the picture while the image is on the screen to protect against burn in. The farthest edges of a image can sometimes be hidden at times when the picture shifts. It basically is almost undetectable but if you look at the screen after 5 minutes or 10 minutes the entire image shifted to the right or left side very slowly. I have never seen anyone complain about having the Orbiter mode 1 or mode 2 on. Orbiter mode 2 works with all screen modes. If for some reason you do not like the Orbitor feature you can turn it off during normal TV watching without network logo's. I am really picky about picture quality and the Orbitor mode 2 setting does not bother me. I do notice that after 5 or 10 minutes if I really look at the right and left corners of the picture I can see the image shifted very slightly. By switching back and forth from right to left over several minutes it does a very good job at protecting from burn-in.

One does not have to do anything super special during the first 100-300 hours of the break in period. The average consumer purchasing a Pioneer just should try and watch 95% of 16:9 full screen material for the first 100-300 hours of use. 4:3 and letterboxed material should be limited during a break in period. For those that really want to run special video patterns there are all kinds of diffrent styles people use to break in a plasma displays.

I have installed many PRO-141FD's and PRO-101FD's for family members in different parts of the US and have never purchased directly from Value Electronics. For questions regarding Value Electronics and what they do to the KRP-500M and KRP-600M display I would recommended contacting Value Electronics directly or read many of the positive posts regarding Value Electronics. Other people in this forum would be better qualified to answer questions about their experience with Value Electronics. I know Value Electronics offered options for the KRP-500M like side speakers and calibration options. If you need the $200 KRP-TS02 stand you can purchase it on clearance from Pioneer directly for only $99 plus shipping.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/Accessories/ci.KRP-TS02.Kuro

[ReggaetonSalsero]

I found both the TS23 & the TS02 for 99 bucks each one....plus value electronics gives u a choice of which one u want. I read the TS23 was originally made for the 500m and has a longer top and bigger bottom for more stability while the ts02 is smaller/shorter and not as wide and made for the 101 and can be used for the 500m but is not as stable or as sturdy for the 500m as the ts23. Is that accurate?

Yes i still have some analog channels but very little just a few, don't really even care about it anymore. I'm going with that second box with the hdmi 1.3b capability.

I have all 1.3 a, and they do NOT allow tv to receiver audio UNLESS im using the ps3. WHen i'm watching regular tv or hdtv over the air......i HAVE to have an optical cable or coaxial cable or else i can't hear the program. I read with the 1.3B hdmi cable, i will be able to watch my over the air programming WITHOUT that optical or coaxial cable needed with the 1.3 for over the air sound. U say it has to do with the recever but i have a denon 4308 which is supposed to be top of the line....b4 this i had a pioneer elite03, b4 this 3 yamaha 663 and a bunch of onkyos....NONE of them let me here the over the air sound without that optical or coaxial cable so i'm hoping by getting those 1.3b hdmi's, i can get rid of the extra optical or coaxial cable and hear over the air tv sound through the receiver. At least that is what one of the specs say it does for the 1.3b. Again, i went to monoprice.com and i typed up 1.3b but i don't find it there.....u know where they have them?

Yeah i'm leaning towards the pioneer 500m with that second tv tuner box but i just cant believe all the hassle for a plasma. U have to be so careful with it and sometimes my channels are in 4.3...yes some of the over the air channels say 720p but they are in 4.3....and i set my tv to show properly via settings...ex...full. Y is there such a big deal over breakin unlike the lcds?

U say the orbiter 2 shifts the pic in 5-10 minutes. So if i'm watching a movie on tv via over the air or blu ray, it will shift the picture and i will see that? That means i have to do something every 5-10 minutes to shift it back? I have to be careful i don't watch a program with a label or it might cause burn in if i turn it off or switch it or have it on orbiter one? That is a lot of hassle for a so called best picture. I'm still leaning towards this one though.

My backup is the samsung 468500lcd.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by ReggaetonSalsero

I found both the TS23 & the TS02 for 99 bucks each one....plus value electronics gives u a choice of which one u want. I read the TS23 was originally made for the 500m and has a longer top and bigger bottom for more stability while the ts02 is smaller/shorter and not as wide and made for the 101 and can be used for the 500m but is not as stable or as sturdy for the 500m as the ts23. Is that accurate?

Yes i still have some analog channels but very little just a few, don't really even care about it anymore. I'm going with that second box with the hdmi 1.3b capability.

I have all 1.3 a, and they do NOT allow tv to receiver audio UNLESS im using the ps3. WHen i'm watching regular tv or hdtv over the air......i HAVE to have an optical cable or coaxial cable or else i can't hear the program. I read with the 1.3B hdmi cable, i will be able to watch my over the air programming WITHOUT that optical or coaxial cable needed with the 1.3 for over the air sound. U say it has to do with the recever but i have a denon 4308 which is supposed to be top of the line....b4 this i had a pioneer elite03, b4 this 3 yamaha 663 and a bunch of onkyos....NONE of them let me here the over the air sound without that optical or coaxial cable so i'm hoping by getting those 1.3b hdmi's, i can get rid of the extra optical or coaxial cable and hear over the air tv sound through the receiver. At least that is what one of the specs say it does for the 1.3b. Again, i went to monoprice.com and i typed up 1.3b but i don't find it there.....u know where they have them?

Yeah i'm leaning towards the pioneer 500m with that second tv tuner box but i just cant believe all the hassle for a plasma. U have to be so careful with it and sometimes my channels are in 4.3...yes some of the over the air channels say 720p but they are in 4.3....and i set my tv to show properly via settings...ex...full. Y is there such a big deal over breakin unlike the lcds?

U say the orbiter 2 shifts the pic in 5-10 minutes. So if i'm watching a movie on tv via over the air or blu ray, it will shift the picture and i will see that? That means i have to do something every 5-10 minutes to shift it back? I have to be careful i don't watch a program with a label or it might cause burn in if i turn it off or switch it or have it on orbiter one? That is a lot of hassle for a so called best picture. I'm still leaning towards this one though.

My backup is the samsung 468500lcd.

The stand info you read is incorrect. The Pioneer PDK-TS23 table top stand was designed exclusively for the 2006 1080P Pioneer PRO-FHD1 monitor. There use to be a shortage of Pioneer KRP-TS02's and all dealers were backordered on them for over 60 days until Pioneer had some more made in Japan. Since the PDK-TS23 was not made for the KRP-500M there is issues using that stand with that model.

Some dealers that are over stocked on the 2006 model PDK-TS23 stands try to push that model with the 2008 displays.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/Accessories/ci.PDK-TS23.Kuro

Now the Pioneer KRP-TS02 table top stand was designed by Pioneer for exclusive use on the PRO-101FD and KRP-500M. That stand use to sell for $200 and is on clearance for $99 from Pioneer directly. Pioneer has fast shipping. They ship out the same day or next day. Back in the summer I paid full price for the stands. These are bargain prices now.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/Accessories/ci.KRP-TS02.Kuro

Pioneer on page 87 of the KRP-500M manual warns people not to use any other stand accept the KRP-TS02.
Quote
"CAUTION: This KRP-600M for use only with KRP-TS01 (Pioneer Corporation.) stand. Use with other stands is
capable of resulting in instability causing possible injury.
This KRP-500M for use only with KRP-TS02 (Pioneer Corporation.) stand.
Use with other stands is capable of resulting in instability causing possible injury."
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Unassigned+Content/KRP-500M+OPERATING+INSTRUCTIONS



If you are talking about using the built in ATSC tuner in your existing HDTV then yes you would need to use a audio output like optical since they do not put HDMI outputs on TV's, only HDMI inputs. No one makes a HDTV with HDMI output, they place digital audio outputs on some TV's instead. I have seen a few HDMI 1.2 or lower cableboxes that output audio over HDMI.

Even HDMI 1.0 setup boxes sometimes support HDMI over audio. There have been user reports that sometimes even HDMI cableboxes that use HDMI 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2 will not output audio over HDMI do to a software glitch or design. One has to use the digital audio fiber or coaxial instead.
Warning about the PHD-205LE box. It has HDMI 1.3b output but no where in the manual does it mention that the HDMI output will output audio. You might need to email or call them to verify that it passes audio over HDMI. Just because a device is HDMI 1.3b does not mean it will pass audio. They might have designed the hardware or software for the box to only support video only for HDMI. It would be very unwise for companies to make modern day electronic devices that use HDMI 1.3b and not support audio in the design of the product. You might be stuck with a separate cable again for audio.
http://www.epvision.com/Documents/PHD-205LEv3.6_manual.pdf

The Pioneer plasmas after the first 100 hours or so are fine to watch stuff in the original ratio like 4:3 with black or gray bars on the left and right side. The shift in picture with the Orbiter mode is so small it is undetectable to the human eye when the shifting is occurring. If one looks really close to the screen left and right corner after 10 minutes they can see that the image has slightly moved. If you get a chance take a look at the PRO-151FD in Best Buy if they still have it. Most likely the orbiter mode will be turned on. Watch the corners of the left and right screen for 10 minutes, After 10 minutes you will see what I am talking about.

Best Buy also has the Samsung 55 inch and 46 inch UNB8500 series to look at if you choose to go that route.

[OCI]

I know this store has stock...not much but they bought a lot of stock from a distributor:

Kuro Friday

"Kuro" is black in Japanese....get it!

They're a five-star blah...blah...blah. I've bought a few things from them over the past year. No surpirses, good or bad. You get pretty much what they offer on the site.

Send me a PM and I can give you more info...