Using subwoofer as center channel stand.

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by js666

...Is it reasonable to expect a little vibration?...

Absolutely! The amount of travel in the woofer and the amount of air it moves has to result in some vibration through the cabinet. Still, with a reasonable amount of thought, you should be able to fashion a solution that also accomplishes what you want. Good Luck!

[js666]

Did this to test ....



Strangely enough, the coin didn't topple over during the same scenes. I'm guessing the center provided extra dampening to the sub. Still noticed the coin wobble but the dialogue was just as natural.

[ZIPPO]

Originally Posted by Aerodude73

lol - this makes the Third () time these were posted. One above mine, then my post for the Amazon link, now yours.

I only read the first & last post before I posted

[vsidhu]

Originally Posted by ZIPPO

I only read the first & last post before I posted

This isn't a book report for high school

[js666]

OK so the center is now on the sub. Just finished re-calibrating and watching some scenes I'm familiar with.
I can say that center on sub definitely DOES NOT affect the dialogue. Bass output is about the same as before and it doesn't seem new placement affects the bass quality in any negative way. Might even be a bit smoother... but I'm going to fine-tune it a bit more and see if I can get a substantial improvement. If anything, setup is a bit cleaner and more symmetrical.

Aesthetically, what do you guys think???

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by js666

OK so the center is now on the sub. Just finished re-calibrating and watching some scenes I'm familiar with.
I can say that center on sub definitely DOES NOT affect the dialogue. Bass output is about the same as before and it doesn't seem new placement affects the bass quality in any negative way. Might even be a bit smoother... but I'm going to fine-tune it a bit more and see if I can get a substantial improvement. If anything, setup is a bit cleaner and more symmetrical.

Aesthetically, what do you guys think???

It's what THX approves.

[js666]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

It's what THX approves.

So does Harman, I believe.

[Hammie]

Originally Posted by js666

So does Harman, I believe.

I was being a smarta$$.

[rded]

Jose,

The new set up looks nice! Hey If performance is not sacrificed for aesthetics then that's the way to go, right?!

[js666]

Originally Posted by louhamilton

I was being a smarta$$.

According to the harman white paper:

CONCLUSIONS
• What is the optimal placement?

One subwoofer at each wall midpoint is the best in terms of
Std, Max-ave and Max-min but does not support low
frequencies particularly well. Two subwoofers, at opposing
wall midpoints, performs very nearly as well as four at the
midpoints and gives a much better LF factor. One
subwoofer in each corner also has good low frequency
support, but does not perform quite as well as one
subwoofer at each wall midpoint, in terms of Std, Max-ave
and Max-min. If cost and aesthetics are considered,
subwoofers at 2 wall midpoints is preferred.

Extreme LFE is not an issue in my room. It's more than enough with the old and new placement.

[js666]

Originally Posted by rded

Jose,

The new set up looks nice! Hey If performance is not sacrificed for aesthetics then that's the way to go, right?!

I believe so. I do like the look of the new setup.

[Big Daddy]

The problem of using a subwoofer as a stand in the middle of the front wall is not only about vibration. The THX recommendation and Harmon recommendation are based on years of research at the National Research Council of Canada under the direction of Dr. Floyd Toole. Those recommendations apply to two or four subwoofers in a typical small home theater room. With one subwoofer, the middle of the front wall may not be the best location for the subwoofer. By arbitrarily putting the subwoofer there, you will lose the chance of experimenting and findinding a better location in order to get optimum bass output.

[vsidhu]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

The problem of using a subwoofer as a stand in the middle of the front wall is not only about vibration. The THX recommendation and Harmon recommendation are based on years of research at the National Research Council of Canada under the direction of Dr. Floyd Toole. Those recommendations apply to two or four subwoofers in a typical small home theater room. With one subwoofer, the middle of the front wall may not be the best location for the subwoofer. By arbitrarily putting the subwoofer there, you will lose the chance of experimenting and findinding a better location in order to get optimum bass output.

Hey BD,

does this apply to all HT applications/settings? If it is an irregular room (like an open basement) can a subwoofer still sound good at center position?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by vsidhu

Hey BD,

does this apply to all HT applications/settings? If it is an irregular room (like an open basement) can a subwoofer still sound good at center position?

Yes, a subwoofer's performance depends on its interaction with the room boundaries. In most rectangular rooms, the middle of the 4 walls is the best for 4 subwoofers. Alternatively, you can put them in the four conrners.

With two subwoofers, the middle of the side walls is a good position. You can also place them in the middle of the front and rear walls.

For one subwoofer, the most recommended position is in a corner at least a foot or more away from the walls.

[js666]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

The problem of using a subwoofer as a stand in the middle of the front wall is not only about vibration. The THX recommendation and Harmon recommendation are based on years of research at the National Research Council of Canada under the direction of Dr. Floyd Toole. Those recommendations apply to two or four subwoofers in a typical small home theater room. With one subwoofer, the middle of the front wall may not be the best location for the subwoofer. By arbitrarily putting the subwoofer there, you will lose the chance of experimenting and findinding a better location in order to get optimum bass output.

Output is really the least of my problems. Priority #1 is smoother response.
As far as finding a "better" location to maximize bass output, I really only had 3 places I could put my sub. .
1)Left corner, which was way too boomy.
2)Between L and C.
3)Under the center.
Was satisfied with 2nd placement but aesthetically 3rd placement is more pleasing without any negative affects on bass. Output is the about the same as measured with an SPL and if anything, response feels a bit smoother around the room. Couple of days and I should have a better idea.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by js666

Output is really the least of my problems. Priority #1 is smoother response.
As far as finding a "better" location to maximize bass output, I really only had 3 places I could put my sub. .
1)Left corner, which was way too boomy.
2)Between L and C.
3)Under the center.
Was satisfied with 2nd placement but aesthetically 3rd placement is more pleasing without any negative affects on bass. Output is the about the same as measured with an SPL and if anything, response feels a bit smoother around the room. Couple of days and I should have a better idea.

If a subwoofer gets too boomy in a corner, move it a couple of feet away from the walls. To get more even and smoother bass across the room, you definitely need a second subwoofer. You can place one in the middle of the front wall and one in the middle of the rear wall. The best option is to get an identical subwoofer.

[js666]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

The best option is to get an identical subwoofer.

That's what I'm trying to avoid.
Just did more listening and I think it sounds fine.

BTW, Big daddy, how do you like the Velo SMS-1?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by js666

That's what I'm trying to avoid.
Just did more listening and I think it sounds fine.

BTW, Big daddy, how do you like the Velo SMS-1?

I really like the Velodyne SMS-1. It helps me smooth out the bass frequencies of the 4 subwoofers in my room. I created a sticky thread for it.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=90525

[Fors*]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Yes, a subwoofer's performance depends on its interaction with the room boundaries. In most rectangular rooms, the middle of the 4 walls is the best for 4 subwoofers. Alternatively, you can put them in the four conrners.

With two subwoofers, the middle of the side walls is a good position. You can also place them in the middle of the front and rear walls.

For one subwoofer, the most recommended position is in a corner at least a foot or more away from the walls.

This is how I have my 2 subs et-up, and I also used REW (Room Equalizer Wizard) and have a nice even bass response, (even though I have 2 different subs, REW allowed me to set them up nicely together.) I believe for 2 subs, the middle of the two side walls in a rectangular room is an excellent location for both, as long as aesthetics/space will allow for it.

[Thunderchildga]

Speakers are essentially acting like horns. think of the early wind-up Victrolas that had large horns coming from the arm that held the needle and the diaphram it vibrated. Also think of the early 20th Century Vaudville entertainers like Rudy Vallee using a Megaphone to amplify their voices.

Klipsch (with his Klipschhorn) and Bose (with his series 901) extended this concept by telling their customers to place their speakers in exacting locations so the walls of the room would act as a continuation of the speakers "horn".

The normal suggested placement of a subwoofer is usually a few inches or so from a corner of the room. This is so the bass will resonate out of the "V" of the corner and naturally increase as sound does as it passed through a horn. Since bass is ominidirectional, you can't really tell where it is coming from in a standard-sized room, so this set-up is generally aknowledged as the optimal placement.

But with that said, the optimal set up for you is ultimately dependent on your taste and preference. I'd say place the speaker where you want it to be, then have a good listen. If you like it, then go with it. If the bass is a bit less than you like, perhaps you can adjust the subwoofer to suit your taste, otherwise try another location until you hit upon the right placement that suits your taste.