NIN "The Fragile" 5.1 release in 2014?

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

But have you extracted each and compared the checksums using EAC to indeed confirm that they are identical masterings? If they are, the data should be identical. If they're not, the differences you're hearing in my opinion are due to one having better mastering than another.

I will have to do that...so will look into that..I have never done what you have suggested..but to me it sounds like a good task...

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by botley

NIN's old record company, Interscope/UMG, was responsible for the DualDisc, SACD and SHM releases. Now that they are off that label, I don't think those are in the cards for The Fragile. It's more than likely that the new reissue will be on vinyl, standard CD and BD, assuming NIN fulfills their remaining commitment to Interscope/UMG for a "greatest hits"-type compilation and can license the rights to do this reissue themselves.

It's really great to hear that Alan Moulder is re-creating the album in 5.1, I look forward to hearing the finished product in whatever form it takes!

I think it will be released..kind of like Ghosts..cd/vinyl/Blu-ray in one package..and avail in seperate releases..

I think I read that there were like 100+ tracks at one time for the Fragile....whats the chance of those seeing the light of day?? What bonus/unreleased songs do you think will come out?

Will this be a Nothing/Interscope release? I mean they do own the rights to the music?

Or will it be a Null Corp/A+R..release?

Just curious because PHM was purchased from Bicycle Music Company
it use to be owned by TVT..

Just wondering how this is being worked out..

[dobyblue]

And Rob Sheridan tweeted in late 2009 that the first look at the Fragile prototype was received from AiR. Surround mixes started October 2010.

They don't need to OWN the material to do a release, they just need to licence the material for a specific release, the same way Sony licenced Jurassic Park for Japanese Superbit DVD releases only, no rights to do anything else with them other than those releases.

If it's through AiR then it should definitely contain Blu-ray for the 5.1.

Worst thing that could happen? DVD-Video only version with 448 Kbps Dolby 5.1, lol.

[botley]

I'm pretty sure that Artist In Residence will be handling the physical release, but Interscope still owns NIN's master recordings from 1992-2007, so they will have to be involved in some way... even if only by charging a fee to license the masters. Anything strictly "new", like a 5.1 mix or unreleased bonus tracks, won't have to be licensed from them.

It was interesting to hear that Trent has considered re-working parts of the album, but hasn't decided to what extent he will yet, if at all. I suppose it's anyone's guess as to what will be included.

By the way, doby, I looked at the MLP stereo from the DVD-Audio layer of The Downward Spiral DualDisc in Adobe Audition, and it's apparently only 20-bit depth, not 24-bit. I'd imagine the DSD stereo layer on both discs of the Deluxe Edition SACD was mastered from the same resolution.

Sometimes the problem with high-res audio from bands like NIN that record into computers is once you go down to a certain resolution, say by using some outboard processing gear that only works at 16-bit depth, you can't really get that data back to full resolution. But you have to stay true to it, because that's the sound we all know and love! Alan Moulder understands this and I'm sure he is being meticulous about it when it comes to his restoration of the multi-tracks for remixing.

[tylerdurden10]

Originally Posted by ColdBluSteelBook

that is awsome...great cd...combines my fav movie and my fav band..

haha, you took the words right out of my mouth, also my favorite band & movie (if you couldn't already tell from my avatar)

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

They don't need to OWN the material to do a release, they just need to licence the material for a specific release, the same way Sony licenced Jurassic Park for Japanese Superbit DVD releases only, no rights to do anything else with them other than those releases.

Worst thing that could happen? DVD-Video only version with 448 Kbps Dolby 5.1, lol.

thanks for clearing that up, I understand a bit more now...thanks...

aww I would hope the DVD-Video would be a very last resort!!

you are very smart with these things Dobyblue...just wondering how you listen to your music? Do use HDMI or do use analog? What do you think of music servers?

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by botley

IAnything strictly "new", like a 5.1 mix or unreleased bonus tracks, won't have to be licensed from them.

so if a 5.1 mix came out only on Blu-Audio...and no cd came out...there would be no license issues? Is it possible that only a 5.1 mix will come out to avoid any dealings with Nothing? If Trent worked with Nothing would that make things a huge issue/or delay things? Just trying to see into the future here and see what the liner notes say..lol...

botley, you are also very smart with this stuff, I am sure I could learn lots of things from you and Doby..

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by tylerdurden10

haha, you took the words right out of my mouth, also my favorite band & movie (if you couldn't already tell from my avatar)

why yes I can..did you ever happen to play the video game they released a few years ago?

so whats your fav NIN song? We know The Downward Spiral is your fav album..whats your fav song?

My fav album would have to be TDS or TF..

Fav song would be Wish or Hurt...

[dobyblue]

It's just "doby", no "l" in there and I have nothing to do with Dolby labs. Call me Steve if it makes it easier, lol.

I have no problem with music servers. I have 900GB of audio on my PC running on 2 1TB drives in RAID1, my HDMI capacitor on my mobo is gone, so I need a new card then I can run my PC into my Onkyo TX-SR805 as it has decent DAC's, BB PCM1796 supporting DSD>Analog natively.

I use HDMI mostly, but I plan to add a dedicated CD player in the future with dedicated 16/44.1 DAC's and of course will hook up using analog so I don't bypass the reason for buying it, probably the Emotiva one as it's only $449 or so, can't afford to get into Classe, Roksan, etc., wish I made that sort of moolah though. Analog for my Goldring GR-2 turntable of course!

I went HDMI so I could listen to my SACD's without a PCM conversion. For the most part I prefer them that way, but the occasional one like The Downward Spiral for example, I think sounds better converting to PCM and using EQ and bass management. Other titles like Billy Joel's The Stranger SACD sound noticeably better sticking with DSD. Shame there isn't a way to use EQ/BM with DSD without going to PCM.

I have a set of AKG 271 MKII headphones, but only listen to those when I can't make noise as I have a 5 month old daughter. Whenever I can I much prefer using the full system for listening. Currently rocking Paradigm Monitor 11's for fronts and rears and a Paradigm Servo 15v2 sub, hope to upgrade the fronts to Studio 100's sometime next year and a CC-690 centre to replace the monitor CC-370.

Originally Posted by botley

I'm pretty sure that Artist In Residence will be handling the physical release, but Interscope still owns NIN's master recordings from 1992-2007, so they will have to be involved in some way... even if only by charging a fee to license the masters. Anything strictly "new", like a 5.1 mix or unreleased bonus tracks, won't have to be licensed from them.

It was interesting to hear that Trent has considered re-working parts of the album, but hasn't decided to what extent he will yet, if at all. I suppose it's anyone's guess as to what will be included.

By the way, doby, I looked at the MLP stereo from the DVD-Audio layer of The Downward Spiral DualDisc in Adobe Audition, and it's apparently only 20-bit depth, not 24-bit. I'd imagine the DSD stereo layer on both discs of the Deluxe Edition SACD was mastered from the same resolution.

Sometimes the problem with high-res audio from bands like NIN that record into computers is once you go down to a certain resolution, say by using some outboard processing gear that only works at 16-bit depth, you can't really get that data back to full resolution. But you have to stay true to it, because that's the sound we all know and love! Alan Moulder understands this and I'm sure he is being meticulous about it when it comes to his restoration of the multi-tracks for remixing.

That's interesting about the stereo track, don't think I've ever listened to it! Wonder if it's because of the source, or if it was an oversight like what happened with The Slip's high rez files coming out initially as 16/96 instead of 24/96, until Trent himself acknowledged the error and got the correct files up for download.

The stereo SACD disc 2 contains no material found on the DualDisc release, so hard to say there. I can say that the Brothers In Arms SACD release was created from the 16-bit/44.1kHz masters and they (well, Chuck Ainley) did an amazing job coaxing more out of it using today's equipment versus 1984's, so I'm sure Alan will be coaxing everything that he can...I just hope they use the original multi-track masters to create the new 5.1 mix.

[tylerdurden10]

Originally Posted by ColdBluSteelBook

why yes I can..did you ever happen to play the video game they released a few years ago?

so whats your fav NIN song? We know The Downward Spiral is your fav album..whats your fav song?

My fav album would have to be TDS or TF..

Fav song would be Wish or Hurt...

Man that is so hard to answer, maybe a tie between Wish or Something I can Never have (then again I also love Dead Souls)

I didn't play the game

[dobyblue]

My favourite NIN album is PHM, one of my favourite albums of all time actually, probably top 5. Something I Can Never Have was always a favourite song of mine right back in 1991 when I first heard Pretty Hate Machine. It was like hearing a totally new kind of sound, I listened to that song with headphones on so many times appreciating the awesome sounds I was hearing throughout and the delightful syncopation.

Always find it hard to decide between The Fragile and TDS, The Fragile has definitely grown on me over time, but there are some tracks I used to love that just don't do it for me anymore, like "We're In This Together Now" - maybe with better mastering or a more spacious 5.1 mix I might learn to appreciate it again, on the CD it just sounds terrible when the chorus kicks in.

The Fragile is already VERY loud, so at least this might be an occasion where a deluxe edition, or at least a high resolution version, may contain a truly better version of The Fragile.

This was the DR report I got from my original CD copy - http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=6898

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It's just "doby", no "l" in there and I have nothing to do with Dolby labs. Call me Steve if it makes it easier, lol.

my bad...so sorry about that.

wow..talk about not reading the username all the way through..I saw that D.O(I inserted the L)then saw the B.Y.

again sorry about that Steve...

so whats your take on the Oppo's conversion of DSD to PCM?

[dobyblue]

No worries man!

The Oppo likely does a fine conversion, but the newer models from the 83 forwards allow for DSD>Analog through the analog outputs as well as DSD natively out through the HDMI, so they've thought of everything for everyone as usual, except for those looking for a slot for their 8-tracks.



I have a Pioneer Elite DV-48 for SACD/DVD-A discs, so when I want to convert to PCM I just change the listening mode on my Onkyo from DSD DIRECT to MULTICH or THX. You can see my AV rack in my gallery pics - https://www.blu-ray.com/community/ga...ember=dobyblue - although the pics are from a year ago when we just bought the house and had to renovate the God-ugly room I wanted to put the music in.

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by tylerdurden10

Man that is so hard to answer, maybe a tie between Wish or Something I can Never have (then again I also love Dead Souls)

I didn't play the game

I loved Something I Can Never Have..I love that they used it in NBK...love this video on youtube...great dialog and short version of Something I Can Never Have

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RS1GoGsx7Q

by the way...I love the version on "Still"

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

No worries man!

The Oppo likely does a fine conversion, but the newer models from the 83 forwards allow for DSD>Analog through the analog outputs as well as DSD natively out through the HDMI, so they've thought of everything for everyone as usual, except for those looking for a slot for their 8-tracks.



I have a Pioneer Elite DV-48 for SACD/DVD-A discs, so when I want to convert to PCM I just change the listening mode on my Onkyo from DSD DIRECT to MULTICH or THX.

I think I will get the new Oppo when it comes out...its the 95...

I would like to buy a new Onkyo..I have the 905...but keep holding out for a better model..I have not been pleased with the models that Onkyo has been releasing over the last few years

[botley]

I'd be first in line for an Oppo Blu-ray/SACD/DVD-Audio player that had a slot for Quadrophonic 8-Tracks!!!

Heh. Seriously.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ColdBluSteelBook

I think I will get the new Oppo when it comes out...its the 95...

I would like to buy a new Onkyo..I have the 905...but keep holding out for a better model..I have not been pleased with the models that Onkyo has been releasing over the last few years

I think the DAC's in the next two year's models weren't as good as the xx5 series, particularly the 805, 875 and 905. These models were beasts, amazing power supplies and DAC's, you had to move up to the $5,500 Denon 5308CI to find the next receiver using the PCM1796 DAC's. Look at the xx6 series Onkyo's, they dropped about 30% weight from the xx5 models.

I will probably keep my Onkyo until 2012 when I go to 3D, then probably get a Denon 4311 (or whatever updated model they have by then) as a pre-amp and the Emotiva XPA-5 as a power amp. Alternately I may just get the Marantz pre-pro whenever the 8003's replacement comes out.

Still a ways to go though, I'm VERY happy with the performance of the 805 for now. Picked up an Antec AV cooler (MSRP $129) for $36 from Fry's which sits on top and keeps the Onkyo nice and cool, because you know how hot these bad boys run when they're cranked.

[ColdBluSteelBook]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Antec AV cooler (MSRP $129) for $36 from Fry's which sits on top and keeps the Onkyo nice and cool, because you know how hot these bad boys run when they're cranked.

wow I had no idea that they made a cooler for these things..you are 100% right...they do get very hot..thanks Steve, I will look into this for sure.

I recently ventured into the wireless hdmi world...I picked up ASUS WiCast.

I will have to look into the cooler thing.

I never ventured into having anything other than a receiver..

is venturing into the items you mentioned better than having an all in one?

[dobyblue]

There are some all in one AV receivers for sure which are formidable, like the 4311 from Denon, but as a general rule of thumb separate pre/pro systems will usually outperform AV receivers, especially within one companies product line.

Here's a link to the cooler - http://www.frys.com/product/5260037?...H:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Fry's put it up to $59.99, it's still a good piece of equipment based on the MSRP, but at $36 it was an easy buy. The Onkyo is designed to run hot, so it's not a necessity, but I can't help but believe the life of the unit is extended by helping with the heat dissipation.

After a quick look around, Fry's is still the cheapest by over $10.

[ColdBluSteelBook]

awww good..will see if they ship to APO...looks like amazon says no...some people on ebay say no..will dig and see if they ship to me...its great to live in the U.K. but sometimes its a pain to have people ship things to a APO address..

How many of these should one have? I have lots of toys....