Batman Beyond: The Return of the Joker!

[Tyger]

Batman Beyond still had the same people working on it, don't know why so many don't like it. I got the complete series for Christmas and have been thinking of at least renting ROTJ, but now I'll just wait for the blu-ray

Very happy about this and hope it does well and urges WB to go back to MOTP, the original series, etc.

[MOONPHASE]

I watched Batman Beyond plus this movie when it was on Toonami and thought it was pretty good. So i'm definitely interested.

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

They had 16:9 crops for Justice League available to them just the same as they had 16:9 crops available for this release.

They chose 4:3 deliberately, probably to show every part of the picture that was available in its original exhibition. In the case of Justice League, it was originally presented in 4:3 open-matte at the same time the 16:9 was shown, and in this case, the 4:3 version was the first exhibition and that's what they're going with.

In both cases, if you wish to see the 16:9 framing, you can just pick the zoom option on your TV or player. Yes, this will diminish resolution slightly, but the option is available to you. Consider the alternative: if the 16:9 frame was what they put on disc, people who would like to see the OAR of 4:3 would be wholly unable to.

And guys, THIS IS NOT WINDOWBOXED. You are being VERY, VERY foolish if you think it will be. If it says 4:3, it will be the original 4:3 frame. They won't go out of their way to use a non-anamorphic 4:3 letterbox frame. There was a single post by a single know-nothing on another forum where he basically said "because it was a non-anamorphic widescreen DVD, they'll windowbox the Blu-ray." No. There have been probably hundreds of DVDs that were previously released on non-anamorphic widescreen DVDs that have been successfully released on proper Blu-rays. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason to believe WB would be the first one to release something previously available in widescreen only on a non-anamorphic DVD and put it on a windowboxed BD. Finally notice that the specs say 4:3, NOT "4:3 letterbox" or "16:9 letterbox" or anything like that. It's the ORIGINAL 4:3 FRAME, not a letterboxed 16:9 in a 4:3 window.

^^

If I recall correctly, these shows were broadcasts in 486i NTSC? and released on 480i DVDs? (576i on PAL countries?)

So a high definition transfer Master done, at ~1080 x 1440 with the full frame open matte image at 4:3; compared to the 4:3 open matte broadcast at 486i x 720 or so, or the 4:3 letterbox matted with black bars added at ~360i x 720, or any DVD or broadcast coded for 16:9 which would have been made, it would be like the extraction from the ~800 x 1440 16:9 area downconverted to 16:9 480i x 720.


The BD then will be this 1080 x 1440 HD 4:3 image, and if you want to see it in matted widescreen you can upscale the ~810p x 1440 pixels to 1080p x 1920; and 810p x 1440 pixels is still > than letterboxed 4:3 360i x 720, or 16:9 coded 480i x 720, or even 720p x 1280 16:9 HDTV, so it will still be HD :>

(and most standard 35mm movies scanned at 2k are upconverted 1.10x for 1080p Blu-ray too) (2k scan of standard 35mm is 1746 pixels wide -> 1.10x = 1920 pixels wide)

[MisterXDTV]

Wait a second...

Look:

It says 4x3 OK? But it also says: 1.33:1 which means that it's the FULL 4:3 image, no doubt:

If it was letterboxed it would have been: 4x3 and 1.78:1!

They say it's matted because it will be properly pillarboxed like Gone with the Wind or Casablanca...

[Busta Uppa]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Wait a second...

Look:

It says 4x3 OK? But it also says: 1.33:1 which means that it's the FULL 4:3 image, no doubt:

If it was letterboxed it would have been: 4x3 and 1.78:1!

They say it's matted because it will be properly pillarboxed like Gone with the Wind or Casablanca...

I believe this will be the case. Since the "anamorphic" distinction no longer applies with the blu-ray format, the aspect ratio on a box refers to the proper movie image and nothing else (correct me if I'm wrong). The windowboxing that people fear could only happen if they used a widescreen version of the movie, and if it was a widescreen version (anamorphic or otherwise, if we're talking DVD encodes) it would be labeled as 16:9, 1.78:1, etc.

They would not take the old black bars into account when labeling the aspect ratio. If they say 4:3 then there shouldn't be any bars on the top or bottom.

I'm new at this blu-ray stuff but this is how I'm understanding the issue at least.

[J-Syxx]

Originally Posted by Spidey Blu

Toonzone is alot more trustworthy than some random poster on a Bluray forum.


And nothing is confirmed yet people, so let's wait until this thing actually comes out before we jump to conclusions, OK?

Everything is actually completely confirmed. We've seen the back of the box. It's not windowboxed. End of story. You were lied to by some self-important admin trying to feed his ego.

[Kangel]

Blu-ray.com has actually linked to The World's Finest on occasion:

https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3519

And it seems quite obvious by simply reading some of their news posts that they actually talk to people at the studios (like WHV or CN). And why is it so hard to believe that they may have simply asked someone at the studio about the framing when the details were released (which they obviously got from WHV if you look at the news...again).

But that is getting this discussion off-topic. Anyways here's hoping this all works out for the best for the release because I would like more DC movies on Blu-ray.

[Deciazulado]

Well, the Blu-ray format's aspect ratio being 16:9, "4:3 matted" would mean 4:3 matted inside 16:9

The only thing conflicting wth that info would be the word "Letterboxed" said above, which on 4:3 coded DVDs meant a Widescreen image inside 4:3.

But BDs are not 4:3 ... So normaly "Letterboxed" on a 16:9 BD means a wide/movie format's image that's not in the 16:9 aspect ratio, black bars filling the difference.

Letterboxed. Pillarboxed. Matted. Black bars.


What does it all mean?



But seriously, no more

[Afrobean]

Yeah... if someone from WB actually said "4:3 letterbox" I would guess that the guy is misusing terminology and meant that there will be a 4:3 picture with black bars, i.e., proper pillarboxing and not letterbox or windowbox at all. He probably didn't realize that adding black bars for less-wide material has different terminology than adding black bars for more-wide material.

ps I looked into it and Blu-ray actually apparently supports 1080p content at 1440x1080, which is 4:3. Technically, 4:3 content doesn't need a matte hardcoded into the picture, meaning that any time it happens, whoever encoded the video did so inefficiently and is wasting some disc space just to hardcode those black bars on the side in the video.

[Deciazulado]

1080 x 480 pixels of solid 16 RGB black repeated 86,00 times per hour (or 108,000 if at 30fps)* shouldn't add too much in compression.



*That's another thing. 480i TV videos have 3:2 pulldown. I think Justice League S1 BD was 1080p24. So wil the Joker laugh at 3:2 cadence?

[spider-neil]

was going to pass on this because of the 4:3 aspect ration, because I have JL season 1 and HATE (HATE!!!) the pillarboxing (can't zone in the blu ray image) so black bars down the sides.

but I want WB to release more stuff in BD
JL/JLU
young justice

so if people boycott this release it will send the message that people don't want this release on blu ray. I can live with a series being 4:3 but SURELY WB must realise people want to see MOVIES in 16:9. like DUH!!

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

I can live with a series being 4:3 but SURELY WB must realise people want to see MOVIES in 16:9. like DUH!!

Most of us here prefer original aspect ratio over an idea like "movies should be widescreen."

And like it or not, but 4:3 was original aspect ratio for this and Justice League season 1.

If you're having trouble zooming in your 4:3 HD picture to crop the top and bottom to fill the screen, maybe you should try adjusting your settings more, because I think it should be possible. If it's not possible, it's a unique hardware problem, I'd say, but either way, 4:3 is still OAR and I don't think you should be too mad about it. Yeah, it'd be great to have both as an option, but if they're only giving one, I think 4:3 is the right choice both here and for Justice League season 1.

ps I'm hoping they give us Young Justice on BD too. They've failed to give us The Brave and the Bold, and I can understand that they think that's a "kid's show" and wouldn't sell well on BD, but I sure hope they realize that Young Justice has broader appeal with older fans. I really hope they aren't testing the waters with this Batman Beyond movie alone though... I don't think too many people remember Batman Beyond other than serious fans. Something like Mask of the Phantasm or even Subzero would probably give a much better indication of how well catalog DCAU material would sell on BD.

[ImportFanatic]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

I can live with a series being 4:3 but SURELY WB must realise people want to see MOVIES in 16:9. like DUH!!

Ummm no. Original aspect ratio please.

[captveg]

Again, the problem is that the source doesn't know how to state things properly in regards to terminology, which is unfortunately very common in the Home Video industry. I'll say it once more - it's a problem I've been dealing with for years. It's 1.33:1 16x9 Pillarboxed. Period.

[BillieCassin]

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Dal...llection/15048


Well I guess that 'splains it.

Warners has a new terminology, it seems.

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Dal...llection/15048


Well I guess that 'splains it.

Warners has a new terminology, it seems.

Thats interesting. Gives me hope this release won't be the disaster earlier reported

[captveg]

Told you all it was a matter of back-asswards terminology.

1.33:1 16x9 Pillarboxed. If they would just say that it would be much, much clearer.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by captveg

1.33:1 16x9 Pillarboxed. If they would just say that it would be much, much clearer.

Or if they just said "1.33", LOL.

Look how many pages we argued about it - imagine how confusing it will be for the general public.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Thats interesting. Gives me hope this release won't be the disaster earlier reported

OT but I just wanted to say it doesn't make any sense for Standard DVD, they are throwing away resolution this way, they should flag the disc 4:3, the player then will pillarbox properly depending on your screen.... Warner is drunk!....

[HDMe]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

OT but I just wanted to say it doesn't make any sense for Standard DVD, they are throwing away resolution this way, they should flag the disc 4:3, the player then will pillarbox properly depending on your screen.... Warner is drunk!....

I agree that it sounds stupid... but how does it result in throwing resolution away on standard DVD to do it like that? Seems to me the result would be the same resolution.

Where the problem would come in... though... is for anyone watching on a 4:3 TV, where they would get a smaller letterbox presentation.

Which reminds me... I really wish Blu-ray (and HD in general) had allowed for a flag to indicate 4:3 content so we wouldn't have to deal with the different choices in encoding.

It would be much simpler if they had allowed for 4:3 HD encoding... and let the HDTV handle how to display it. IT would have given the end-user more options and reduced some of the confusing terminology.