Samsung BD-P2400

[garak]

Bad news guys, it appears that this player has been canceled.

http://wesleytech.com/samsung-bdp-24...-canceled/380/

I wonder if that means they're going to try to push their dual format player instead.

[quetzalcoatl]

They will not announce the spec for it until it is going to the street. It would be a nightmare for them. They have all these 1200's to sell and if the 2400 is 1.1. Then they would just sit there. But if the post is correct over at AVS then it is a mute point.



Just notice that no company that is currentlly making BD players has announced a 1.1 machine. Why do you think that is? I think the 1400 is a 1.1 machine as well but it just has not been announced as such.

[Manco]

This is actually a good thing. Get these players 1.1 and 2.0 ready.
There has been too much farting arournd with this and it's just confusing the heck out of everyone.

[Farscape1]

I for one would like the extra special feature etc.. But some HD-DVDers over on AVS are making this a much bigger problem that it is. Heck most of the movies out can't even utilize the spec yet, so I see why they need to get the line of current player out..

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Manco

This is actually a good thing. Get these players 1.1 and 2.0 ready.
There has been too much farting arournd with this and it's just confusing the heck out of everyone.

...and miss the xmas rush?
I don't think this is good news at all.

[Manco]

Originally Posted by bootman

...and miss the xmas rush?
I don't think this is good news at all.

How does the 2400 solve the xmas issue?
The 1200 does that job just fine. Most people diving into BD for the holiday season will reach for the 1200. HQV in the 2400 is a nice addition, but not something most people will care about, nor the additional cost. By Dec sales, the 1200 will be below $399.

The fact that they pulled the 2400 is a good sign. It means the BDA, CE's and the push-shove with Warners is getting more serious and the Studios want to see bonafide 1.1 & 2.0 players on the shelves. Think about it...the 2400 already has an ethernet built in which means they will go back and reconfigure this unit as 2.0 compliant model as the successor to the 1200. Good move. Guaranteed this model already exists in the lab and it's just a matter of getting the final software sign-off on the test disks then queue up the production line.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Manco

How does the 2400 solve the xmas issue?
The 1200 does that job just fine. Most people diving into BD for the holiday season will reach for the 1200. HQV in the 2400 is a nice addition, but not something most people will care about, nor the additional cost. By Dec sales, the 1200 will be below $399.

The fact that they pulled the 2400 is a good sign. It means the BDA, CE's and the push-shove with Warners is getting more serious and the Studios want to see bonafide 1.1 & 2.0 players on the shelves. Think about it...the 2400 already has an ethernet built in which means they will go back and reconfigure this unit as 2.0 compliant model as the successor to the 1200. Good move. Guaranteed this model already exists in the lab and it's just a matter of getting the final software sign-off on the test disks then queue up the production line.

I'm sure you are correct.
Still, this does mean that so far there will be no new 1.1 players for xmas.
For those new to the game, this would have made a more even playing field feature wise.

[Manco]

Originally Posted by bootman

I'm sure you are correct.
Still, this does mean that so far there will be no new 1.1 players for xmas.
For those new to the game, this would have made a more even playing field feature wise.

Yes...agreed. I think we're all frustrated that the BDA has not been more proactive in moving the 1.1 spec onto the playing field. It is certainly an argument the Red Camp can use against us (and we really have no excuse).

[bootman]

The real point isn't if we think the 1.1 features are useless, but the perception of a product with less features than the competition to the general public.

Marketing wise, this isn't a good thing since we can't currently make a point on price either. (hopefully that will change soon also)

Got to think big picture, and this might turn out to be a pretty big stumbling block this XMAS if not treated properly by the BDA now.

[garak]

Originally Posted by bootman

The real point isn't if we think the 1.1 features are useless, but the perception of a product with less features than the competition to the general public.

Marketing wise, this isn't a good thing since we can't currently make a point on price either. (hopefully that will change soon also)

Got to think big picture, and this might turn out to be a pretty big stumbling block this XMAS if not treated properly by the BDA now.

I agree that in that I think the BDA dropped the ball on player features/specs.

Does anybody know how much, if any, the secondary video decoder for a 1.1 spec machine would add to the cost?

My only thought from a strategic standpoint is that perhaps the BDA is thinking that getting lower priced players in the market is more important than getting another $500 player in the market, even though it would have 1.1 spec.

[bootman]

Well now the pressure is on for Sammy to release an update for the 1200.

[PurpleAardvark]

Originally Posted by garak

Bad news guys, it appears that this player has been canceled.

http://wesleytech.com/samsung-bdp-24...-canceled/380/

I wonder if that means they're going to try to push their dual format player instead.

This is a rumor once again. I called samsung from BB on friday and they had no idea what I was talking about. They said we should have the 2400 by the street date 10/21 if not before.

[pedigree]

quick question somewhat related to this thread:
is it worth it for me to invest in a standalone player for BD if i already have a PS3?

[bootman]

Originally Posted by PurpleAardvark

This is a rumor once again. I called samsung from BB on friday and they had no idea what I was talking about. They said we should have the 2400 by the street date 10/21 if not before.

Man, I hope you are right.
That would be awesome news.
Over at AVS it was posted that ABT electronics (an authorized Samsung dealer) verified the news about the pull back.
I checked their website and they do have seemed to have pulled their 2400 listing.
They still have the 5000 up though.

Again we will have to wait and see.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by pedigree

quick question somewhat related to this thread:
is it worth it for me to invest in a standalone player for BD if i already have a PS3?

Does the PS3 noise or heat output bother you in any way?
If not, no IMO.
Now if you need another blu player in another room, its a no brainer.

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

he 2400's only advantage is SD upconverstion quality right?

I believe that is not completely correct! The 2400 uses a ReonVX implementation of Silicon Optix HQV video processing. There are a number of benefits of this:

High quality de-interlacing of interlaced material, both 480i and 1080i (most important).
High quality 24-tap scaling.
Temporal noise reduction.
Codec noise reduction.

DVD replay can take advantage of all of these benefits, but any Blu-ray disc will still benefit from noise reduction, and if you use a 720p display, you will get good scaling (though this isn’t a huge advantage).

Although most movie-source BDs are encoded as 1080p24, there are a number that are stored as 1080i60. These are usually live concerts, and some TV and natural history programmes. These are captured by HD video cameras, rather than by film cameras, and the replay process is quite different to film. Recent BD players use direct 1080p24 decoding of BD films, so video processing is hardly the issue it was with 1080i60 decoding (BD-P1000 etc).

HOWEVER, with video-source 1080i60 material on a disc, there is no 3:2 pull-down, or film cadence, or inverse telecine processing to be used. The original video capture was interlaced itself, so the only way to reproduce the 1080p60 that your display wants is to INVENT the missing lines. This is very challenging, and poor solutions look soft or messy. But good solutions like HQV, VXP & VRS can look really good, and in some respects can look better than 1080p24 film replay (long held by some as the gold standard in video replay).

Firstly, while 1080p mastering can show film grain, video does not have film grain, and this can be quite obvious in shadows and areas of low detail or contrast. Secondly, the higher vertical refresh rate can improve temporal resolution. 1080p24 / film can look sharp with static views or slow panning, but this is lost with faster movement, and I think 1080i60 can maintain sharpness with faster motion. My feeling is that these two benefits may be able to achieve that “suspension of belief” or “illusion of reality” better than 1080p24 / film does.

But this will only be achieved with top-drawer video processing, like the BDP1200, P2400 or UP5000 will have. I replaced a BDP1000 with a Sony BDPS1, but I have a sneaking suspicion that with 1080i60 / video BDs, the old Samsung was actually BETTER than the Sony when used with my Vantage HD VP, and similar with 1080p24 films BDs. That is in other words, essentially the same processing configuration as the BDP2400. So what I am saying is that, without having yet seen it, I expect the 2400 will have better PQ with BDs, as well as with DVDs.

Thanks for your patience,

Regards, Nick

[Frode]

I'm with you for the most part Nick, but why would you use noise reduction on Blu-ray? I can see it for some DVDs, as there's very variable source material out there, but HD shouldn't need it I'd figure.

[MacDaddyOJack]

Well if the bd-p2400 is cancelled, then I'm getting the sony BDP-S500. I don't need any of that PiP stuff, its for the birds anyways

[welwynnick]

Originally Posted by Frode

I'm with you for the most part Nick, but why would you use noise reduction on Blu-ray? I can see it for some DVDs, as there's very variable source material out there, but HD shouldn't need it I'd figure.

Have you tried it? I tried it without realising, as to begin with I could only play BDs using my Vantage HD scaler. When I connected my player to my new 1080p DLP projector, I noticed more noise where I hadn’t been aware of it before. With BDs, noise seems to come from two sources: decoding/decompression, and film grain. Effective motion-adaptive or temporal recursive noise reduction can improve the picture without degrading sharpness (as long as you don’t overdo it).

I couldn’t swear to it, but I think my BDP1000/Vantage combo had better PQ than my new BDPS1 with both film and video BDs. Some of that was down to good de-interlacing, but I’m sure noise reduction makes a significant contribution.

While I’m sure noise reduction is more valuable with SD, due to the up-scaling of the noise itself, I believe BD still benefits from suitable NR.

Nick

[JonasK]

Originally Posted by Manco

Yes...agreed. I think we're all frustrated that the BDA has not been more proactive in moving the 1.1 spec onto the playing field. It is certainly an argument the Red Camp can use against us (and we really have no excuse).

You mean that we're frustrated that BDA doesn't tell us all their plans?

BDA held a plugfest in Japan in September to test profile 1.1 and 2.0 players. The results are due Oct. 5th. To correct found bugs and verify the new firmware would take a few weeks, so I wouldn't expect any profile 1.1/2.0 player/firmware until end of October.

Also remember that the first movie with PiP is scheduled for Nov. 20th. It would be foolish to release a player/firmware without having tested the final (or at least a very late) version of that disc.