$100 vs $1000 ? - Page 2 - Blu-ray Forum

AV_Integrated · 06-29-2006, 07:08 PM

I'm not saying 'cutting edge' for technology - I'm saying 'cutting edge' for actual quality of product. JVC displays have a reputation for some serious issues and have not lived up to the level of quality that they should have reached. Sony has taken LCoS to a whole new level, and in review after review, it gets top marks and has been knocking down DLP as king for image quality. Considering their complete lack of penetration as a plasma producer, it is downright shocking that they managed to do that with LCoS which is notorious for being difficult to work with.

Cutting edge image quality with a tough, and one of the newer, technologies to work with.

Likewise, their front projector - the Ruby (VPL100 or something) is looked upon as a gold standard by many. While 720p projectors can run over $10K for a single chip model, and $15K for a 3-chip model, the full 1080p Ruby w/SXRD has a MSRP of $10K and is available for closer to $8K if you know where to shop. That combination? Pure cutting edge... oh, and it supports 1080p.

Sony wasn't the first to do LCoS, just like they weren't the first to do video games, or make televisions, or much of anything else. It is what they do with the technology that becomes cutting edge. Implementation in a technical and strategic manner with design elements that are superior.

Their DVD players - or A/V receivers... or speakers... are a good deal behind what a Denon, or a Yamaha, or (insert speaker company) would deliver - that's where they fail. But, in one year, SXRD has basically planted itself well out in front of JVCs version of the technology as well as DLP and LCD. I find that amazing - and very suprising. Especially since it is not a technology others can easily duplicate.

BTBuck1 · 06-29-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AV_Integrated

Sony wasn't the first to do LCoS, just like they weren't the first to do video games, or make televisions, or much of anything else. It is what they do with the technology that becomes cutting edge. Implementation in a technical and strategic manner with design elements that are superior.

very well put.

Psiweaver · 06-29-2006, 07:56 PM

I'd take a Runco projector over the ruby, since resolution isn't everything color helps a lot. Sony's new sxrd isn't bad but its color and black levels leave a lot to be desired in my mind. Yes there SXRD is way better than jvc but jvc is garbage usually. Sonys car audio, speakers, recievers are all fairly garbage especially if you were to factor in price.

AV_Integrated · 06-29-2006, 10:03 PM

Strangely, I typically factor in price. But, review after review hits hard on the black levels of SXRD, especially the Ruby, as being untouched by almost any display on the market.

Runco, in my experience (not opinion) has some of the worst engineering and product design of any company on the market. Their stuff looks good, for the very short period of time that it actually works, and like a fine Italian automobile, you better know your mechanic, really - REALLY well.

Runco specifically rarely has designed gear in house, they have zero customer support, and their products are notoriously slow and prone to failure. The ones they actually manufacture are MORE prone to failure than what they don't manufacture. As well, they are finally beginning to figure out that a home theater projector shouldn't use a jet turbine for a fan as it may be a bit distracting from that other stuff going on... what's it called? Oh yeah, the movie soundtrack.

No, not a fan of Runco here and I have dealt with no less than 30 Runco installations with a failure rate that runs well over 75% - some with multiple failures. I do think their image is great, when the projector/scaler works. But, not for the money.

As an aside - I have had a couple of Sony head units... the first ran me 500,000 miles in a Corolla without serious issue. My Aiwa failed in 3 years so I just replaced it with another Sony. Is there better? Sure, but for the cash, I'm not complaining. Value for dollar should always be some level of consideration I believe.

Psiweaver · 06-29-2006, 11:03 PM

Having worked for a Runco dealer for years I don't know where you getting your failure rates facts because i've never had a problem and they are an amazing company to work with. Not to mention they design products on the cutting edge and most of there projectors are made in house now.

Sony car audio sounds awful, it may last forever but it sounds horrible.

I'm not saying the sxrd is bad just that it doesn't look as good as some other technologies.

AV_Integrated · 06-30-2006, 05:50 AM

You obviously have your opinion - but I also worked with Runco for years, my failure rate facts are based on almost every Runco I worked with in $75K+ rooms having issues - and Runco not supporting, or even having a clue about the issues.

There is a reason you don't read reviews of Runco products in most major magazines - because in recent years their products get, at best, lukewarm results. When I purchased my Panasonic PT-L300U projector I took it into a store and put it directly under a $12,000 Runco - split the input - and turned both projectors on the same screen. 2 weeks later, half the employees of the store had purchased the Panasonic! Did the Runco look better? Yes - it did. It looked about $1,000 better... maybe. That was the general consensus, and continues to be what a lot of people think.

STORES: Now, custom stores will always back up Runco. They make a LOT of money on those projectors and Runco protects their product heavily from online sales. This is very good for custom install houses, but very poor for consumers who may want better pricing and an honest answer to the quality of a product.

Bottom line on Runco right now... in my opinion of course... They are like Bose. They don't want professional reviews. They KNOW their product is over-priced and basically offers very little added performance in comparison to many of the far lower priced competition, and especially in similarly priced competitors. They are superior, because they say they are. That's a tough talk, but since they don't do product reviews, it's hardly worth a hill of beans.

That does not mean that their product stinks - it just is overpriced for what you get and there are a lot of choices out there these days. I think their use of a motorized anamorphic setup is pretty cool. But... for how much?

Psiweaver · 06-30-2006, 03:45 PM

depends on the projector for the price of the motorized anamorphic. WE are each entitled to our own opinions.

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06-29-2006, 07:08 PM	#21
AV_Integrated Senior Member Member since:Jan 2005	I'm not saying 'cutting edge' for technology - I'm saying 'cutting edge' for actual quality of product. JVC displays have a reputation for some serious issues and have not lived up to the level of quality that they should have reached. Sony has taken LCoS to a whole new level, and in review after review, it gets top marks and has been knocking down DLP as king for image quality. Considering their complete lack of penetration as a plasma producer, it is downright shocking that they managed to do that with LCoS which is notorious for being difficult to work with. Cutting edge image quality with a tough, and one of the newer, technologies to work with. Likewise, their front projector - the Ruby (VPL100 or something) is looked upon as a gold standard by many. While 720p projectors can run over $10K for a single chip model, and $15K for a 3-chip model, the full 1080p Ruby w/SXRD has a MSRP of $10K and is available for closer to $8K if you know where to shop. That combination? Pure cutting edge... oh, and it supports 1080p. Sony wasn't the first to do LCoS, just like they weren't the first to do video games, or make televisions, or much of anything else. It is what they do with the technology that becomes cutting edge. Implementation in a technical and strategic manner with design elements that are superior. Their DVD players - or A/V receivers... or speakers... are a good deal behind what a Denon, or a Yamaha, or (insert speaker company) would deliver - that's where they fail. But, in one year, SXRD has basically planted itself well out in front of JVCs version of the technology as well as DLP and LCD. I find that amazing - and very suprising. Especially since it is not a technology others can easily duplicate.

06-29-2006, 07:56 PM	#23
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	I'd take a Runco projector over the ruby, since resolution isn't everything color helps a lot. Sony's new sxrd isn't bad but its color and black levels leave a lot to be desired in my mind. Yes there SXRD is way better than jvc but jvc is garbage usually. Sonys car audio, speakers, recievers are all fairly garbage especially if you were to factor in price.

06-29-2006, 10:03 PM	#24
AV_Integrated Senior Member Member since:Jan 2005	Strangely, I typically factor in price. But, review after review hits hard on the black levels of SXRD, especially the Ruby, as being untouched by almost any display on the market. Runco, in my experience (not opinion) has some of the worst engineering and product design of any company on the market. Their stuff looks good, for the very short period of time that it actually works, and like a fine Italian automobile, you better know your mechanic, really - REALLY well. Runco specifically rarely has designed gear in house, they have zero customer support, and their products are notoriously slow and prone to failure. The ones they actually manufacture are MORE prone to failure than what they don't manufacture. As well, they are finally beginning to figure out that a home theater projector shouldn't use a jet turbine for a fan as it may be a bit distracting from that other stuff going on... what's it called? Oh yeah, the movie soundtrack. No, not a fan of Runco here and I have dealt with no less than 30 Runco installations with a failure rate that runs well over 75% - some with multiple failures. I do think their image is great, when the projector/scaler works. But, not for the money. As an aside - I have had a couple of Sony head units... the first ran me 500,000 miles in a Corolla without serious issue. My Aiwa failed in 3 years so I just replaced it with another Sony. Is there better? Sure, but for the cash, I'm not complaining. Value for dollar should always be some level of consideration I believe.

06-29-2006, 11:03 PM	#25
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	Having worked for a Runco dealer for years I don't know where you getting your failure rates facts because i've never had a problem and they are an amazing company to work with. Not to mention they design products on the cutting edge and most of there projectors are made in house now. Sony car audio sounds awful, it may last forever but it sounds horrible. I'm not saying the sxrd is bad just that it doesn't look as good as some other technologies.

06-30-2006, 05:50 AM	#26
AV_Integrated Senior Member Member since:Jan 2005	You obviously have your opinion - but I also worked with Runco for years, my failure rate facts are based on almost every Runco I worked with in $75K+ rooms having issues - and Runco not supporting, or even having a clue about the issues. There is a reason you don't read reviews of Runco products in most major magazines - because in recent years their products get, at best, lukewarm results. When I purchased my Panasonic PT-L300U projector I took it into a store and put it directly under a $12,000 Runco - split the input - and turned both projectors on the same screen. 2 weeks later, half the employees of the store had purchased the Panasonic! Did the Runco look better? Yes - it did. It looked about $1,000 better... maybe. That was the general consensus, and continues to be what a lot of people think. STORES: Now, custom stores will always back up Runco. They make a LOT of money on those projectors and Runco protects their product heavily from online sales. This is very good for custom install houses, but very poor for consumers who may want better pricing and an honest answer to the quality of a product. Bottom line on Runco right now... in my opinion of course... They are like Bose. They don't want professional reviews. They KNOW their product is over-priced and basically offers very little added performance in comparison to many of the far lower priced competition, and especially in similarly priced competitors. They are superior, because they say they are. That's a tough talk, but since they don't do product reviews, it's hardly worth a hill of beans. That does not mean that their product stinks - it just is overpriced for what you get and there are a lot of choices out there these days. I think their use of a motorized anamorphic setup is pretty cool. But... for how much?

06-30-2006, 03:45 PM	#27
Psiweaver Special Member Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Los Angeles,CA	depends on the projector for the price of the motorized anamorphic. WE are each entitled to our own opinions.

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