What "factual evidence" are we ignoring?

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

The average public's eyes Toshiba is HDDVD, Microsoft is behind the scenes.

I remember when Toshiba first went public about the Bribe, the general opinion was that they had to, simply because correct or not, everyone was blaming Microsoft for it!

Whether Toshiba had been "forced" to clear M$ of public guilt, or just wanted their share of the headlines, the general reaction for the first few days was "No way!...M$ is way more the evil-bribe type!--Are they sure they didn't co-sign the check?"

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

With respect to proprietary formats Sony can't market its way out of a paper bag. Beta? MiniDisc? ATRAC? SACD? UMD? MemoryStick? I'm sure there are a couple dozen others that I've neglected but the point remains: when Sony have their proverbial finger in a format pie the safe money backs the competition.

Yeah. Compact Disc? (Sony and Philips.) That one went nowhere.

[thrlride]

Originally Posted by Teazle

Yeah. Compact Disc? (Sony and Philips.) That one went nowhere.

You could accurately say they fail miserably or they totally exceed.

Another thing that is great, even when they fail they support the format for as long as they have to.

[PrinceLH]

I've been fighting the war against HD DVD for the last year and I've looked at our competition. As a proud member of this forum, I also see out people becoming condecending, thinking that we cannot possibly lose this war. That cannot be any further than the truth. We can lose this war and I can already see how. We think that our format is superior, but is it that much more superior than HD DUD? We really need the BDA to step up with much lower cost hardware, especially sub $249.00 by Black Friday. FOX releases are already way to expensive and need to get in line with their partners, in software pricing. We need to have consistant pricing equal to regular new release prices of SD DVD. We need to see prices sub $20.00 on much of the back catalogue titles that currently exist. I will give HD DVD credit for one thing, they're doing everything in their power, to get low priced HDM to the average consumer, going down the stretch, during the holiday season. The BDA made their biggest mistake, last summer, when they had Paramount in the fold and let them get away by taking the summer off. The format war was theirs for the taking, but they frittered it away. Are they going to do it again, with Christmas coming, and allow more HD DVD standalones to end up in the homes of everyday consumers? Every HD DVD standalone sold, is one more soldier, in their favour, in the format war. We all need a wakeup call and start getting into this fight, or were the ones getting stuck with the losing format! Do you want that to happen? I certainly don't!

[GTsmokeya]

Originally Posted by PrinceLH

I've been fighting the war against HD DVD for the last year and I've looked at our competition. As a proud member of this forum, I also see out people becoming condecending, thinking that we cannot possibly lose this war. That cannot be any further than the truth. We can lose this war and I can already see how. We think that our format is superior, but is it that much more superior than HD DUD? We really need the BDA to step up with much lower cost hardware, especially sub $249.00 by Black Friday. FOX releases are already way to expensive and need to get in line with their partners, in software pricing. We need to have consistant pricing equal to regular new release prices of SD DVD. We need to see prices sub $20.00 on much of the back catalogue titles that currently exist. I will give HD DVD credit for one thing, they're doing everything in their power, to get low priced HDM to the average consumer, going down the stretch, during the holiday season. The BDA made their biggest mistake, last summer, when they had Paramount in the fold and let them get away by taking the summer off. The format war was theirs for the taking, but they frittered it away. Are they going to do it again, with Christmas coming, and allow more HD DVD standalones to end up in the homes of everyday consumers? Every HD DVD standalone sold, is one more soldier, in their favour, in the format war. We all need a wakeup call and start getting into this fight, or were the ones getting stuck with the losing format! Do you want that to happen? I certainly don't!

Well put, not many on this site will acknowledge the fact that this is a war and their can and will be things we cannot predict like paramount or a 170 hd-dud player, but we are superior it is up to the bda to reduce hardware, I think with our prices being the same or $5 less on bd than hd-dud for combo disc (lmao) is ok. But hardware pricing and sofware availabilty. I want media now I dont like the mail system I want spiderman and all the others releases but alot of stores struggle getting inventory to show the true number difference in titles availabe.

GTsmokeya

[Maxell]

Price is the biggest obstacle. There will be alot more hd-dvd players moved out this season when people compare the $199 (or less) hddvd player to the $300-$400 Blu-ray player. And there won't be much help from salesmen because there wont be enough salesmen.

[BTBuck1]

Originally Posted by PrinceLH

I've been fighting the war against HD DVD for the last year and I've looked at our competition.

As Have I and others my friend

As a proud member of this forum, I also see out people becoming condecending, thinking that we cannot possibly lose this war.

Anyone thinking this is dillusional, Paramount sudden out of no where decision showed us anything can happen at this stage.

We can lose this war and I can already see how. We think that our format is superior, but is it that much more superior than HD DUD?

Actually it is... But i get what your saying.

We really need the BDA to step up with much lower cost hardware, especially sub $249.00 by Black Friday.

I partially agree, though I think $299 for the sony s300 would be adequete, I think first they should do A BF sale price of $249 down from the $499 and then a new every day low price of $299 there after would suffice. Remember, Blu-ray has the brands and reliability and loyalty through it's CE's Brand recognition. They shouldn't have to ***** their products.

FOX releases are already way to expensive and need to get in line with their partners, in software pricing. We need to have consistant pricing equal to regular new release prices of SD DVD. We need to see prices sub $20.00 on much of the back catalogue titles that currently exist.

I disagree, I think there should be a premium for paid for HD content. If pricing is going to be the same, what incentive is there for studios to make discs is HD? However, I do think Pricing is a bit High. I think Catalog Single disc titles should be $19.99 (which most are) And 2 disc catalog $24.99 (once again most are). New release pricing is what needs some work. I think first week of release you should be able to get those new releases at what the previously mentioned catalog pricing should be, $19.99 single disc/$24.99 2 disc (add $5 after week 1). What we are seeing now is $29.99 to $34.99 and even $39.99!

I will give HD DVD credit for one thing, they're doing everything in their power, to get low priced HDM to the average consumer, going down the stretch, during the holiday season.

Don't give them too much credit, it's the only thing they have left. BD has taken away just about everything else from them.

The BDA made their biggest mistake, last summer, when they had Paramount in the fold and let them get away by taking the summer off.

Agreed.

The format war was theirs for the taking, but they frittered it away. Are they going to do it again, with Christmas coming, and allow more HD DVD standalones to end up in the homes of everyday consumers?

They say History repeats itself...but I hope not. They keep blowing it left and right, being reactive rather than proactive...hopefully they've learned their lesson and take this thing serious from here on out. which is a great segway to my next point.....

Every HD DVD standalone sold, is one more soldier, in their favour, in the format war. We all need a wakeup call and start getting into this fight, or were the ones getting stuck with the losing format! Do you want that to happen? I certainly don't!

This is where you will be surprised that I disagree. WE have been carrying this format ALL ALONG, the enthusiast. WE have been fighting the war FOR Blu-ray. It's long overdue that the BDA & Co. Do the Fighting. Trust me I will gladly Buy great movies, and continue to educate people and support Blu, But what I won't do anymore is pad purchases by buying things I normally wouldn't get in the name of "Supporting the format" or Hold off on purchases or be a part of "Buy days". It's silly and it's time the Blu-ray Disc association started to do their own education, own organizing of buy days, and give us as well as other a reason to support them. Not for what could be "Someday" but for what is great NOW and going forward!

[dakota81]

What "factual evidence" are we ignoring?

1) price is the *only* factor consumers care about.
2) BD+ *will* be used to install trojans on all computers.
3) not a *single* person can tell the difference between PCM and DD+.
4) profile 1.1 movies will *not* play in 1.0 players.
5) firmware updates *always* brick players.

and, um, perhaps

6) Microsoft is the *most* pro-consumer corporation out there?

I haven't seen anything truly substantial, and whenever asked to clarify what "facts" they make up some excuse not to list them yet again. HD DVD backers only post interpretations, they will never post basic facts, even the basic things like capacity, bitrate, sales data. It's always "it's good enough for me" or "it shows a trend". It's never good enough to list that current BD players cannot play picture-in-picture features, the correct "fact" is that BD players are obsolete. They never describe what DRM is, only that Blu-ray is DRM infested and a crime against fair use.