I just want to hear from sony that they are actively working to fix the problems that have plauged the samsung and the early releases and that they will be improving the quality of the presentations quickly and effeciently.
Then the bda should start a website that offers consumers a forum to get straight to the companies making the players with a note that if you post on it any and all ideas become their property or something along those lines, with all blu-ray manufactures having equal access.
Thats my guess too Dave is that since blank media are out its only a matter of time until they start rolling them out with movies on them. My guess though is there making sure they author them really well as to avoid another diasaster as bd25 discs have been up until this point.
^funny, there are threads on Another forum where i defend that 50gb recordable BR discs would be out before the holidays...summer isnt even over and there here. There is no doubt in my mind the movies will be here by december.
I completely agree that the BDA needs a rep who is fairly closely tied to the daily goings-on in the world of BD to represent them. What makes amir so great is that he's practically the guy in charge of Microsoft's commitment to HD DVD. If BD had somebody like that, who was candid and knowledgable, I as a consumer would be happier, and as a poster at AVS. The BDA needs to prove that they are committed to customer satisfaction, and so far, they have not done that.
Blank media are ready. I expect soon we will see content on them.
The problem is that the way that BD50 mass produced discs are made is a completely different process then that by which BD50-RE discs are made. You can't have a BD50 movie disc costing the $40+ or so that BD50-RE discs currently run. In fact, that cost pretty much shows that they are not having an 'easy' time making those discs!
The issue, as I understand it, is that there already are production lines for BD50 movie titles, but they have about a 90%+ failure rate. That is, 9 out of 10 discs comes off the line bad! This makes it cost prohibitive for them to ever release a movie on a BD50.
This is not a simple fix, and I would think that hoping for a 2006 fix release is as much wishful thinking, as reality. If Sony does not have this issue fixed very soon (pre-fall) then it likely means that we won't see a single BD50 movie this year. Because AFTER they get the issue resolved, then they must begin setup and general production run testing begun. Perhaps, one, maybe two movies. Yes, that would be a very good sign that things are starting, but nowhere near the total standard the HD30 discs and DVD9.4 discs have become.
I do expect we will see this issue resolved, but I am far less than confident that it will be resolved in the short order that others are hoping for. I will be VERY happily suprised if it is solidly fixed prior to 2007.
I am amazed more people aren't shocked at the 90% failure rate. If just about anything else that was to be mass-produced had a 90% failure rate, it would be scrapped.
Sadly, the avsforum, blu-ray.com & whoever else online doesn't really mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.
Advertisement, brand loyalty, and reccomendations at the store level are what will make or break this and any other format.
By avsforums generally theory...the early adopter will set the gears in motion for who will win, but this is sorely mistaken IMO. I agree it's going to make a small impact, but not a substantial one, heres why:
CE industry support: How is Toshiba going to look with their HDDVD format when circuit city B&M's don't carry the players. and they are the ONLY representative in Best Buy which is the Worlds Largest & most popular electronics retailer. Add in the fact that you will have BR players from Samsung, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Sony, Sharp & LG sitting on the shelf, strutting their stuff...that alone makes HDDVD look like the outcast. HDDVD will get lost in a sea of Blu come fall. I know if I was J6P, I'd be like, ahh...nah, im coo...i see where this is heading. It really makes Toshiba look like the renegade, like they have their own agenda. people have been burned before (beta, Laserdisc, divX) betting on the underdog is a risky endevoir, and if almost ALL CE companies are on board on a certain format, it's pretty obvious theres a good damn reason why.
Average person isn't going to go online and read forums to make a decision. Just Uber fans like us. They will see commercials, hear about ps3 being able to play movies in HD too, and then Go pick up a ps3 or one of several choices in BR players from all of the top brands. We had a gentleman come in today looking for HDDVD. He asked several questions about it, The associate assisting answered them all. I overheard the salesman then just mention that we had Blu-ray disc too. the customer then said "oh thats out now too?" the associate (who's unbiased either way, i know him well) showed him the endcap demo 40" sammy lcd with bdp1000, and then perfect storm HDDVD on our hometheatre experience pod. he was able to see and hear the full HDDVD experience on surround sound and sit in comfy seats and watch it on a 46" Sammy LCD. the experience of the BR was a pale in comparison, just a demo loop with no surround sound on a smaller set with standing room only.
The customer (who was not tech savy) said he liked what he saw more on the BR and said he'd take one, picked up a few titles and marched up front to check out. This was an average joe. They aren't looking for edge enhancement or artifacts, and they don't know what film grain is. They want to see a better picture than what they have now. If they see it, and hear it...they are sold. Only Av-guru's look frame by frame picking out every little imperfection and over criticize. I've had customers walk by the EDTV sets and go, wow...this is a beautiful picture. or i'm walking down the tube aisle and a customer comments on how clean the 27" bubble sharp tv looks. I have to keep from laughing. Generally speaking even an upconvert DVD is 10x better than what/how their existing setup is. It's sad...but I deal with it on a day to day basis. And with these people BRAND loyalty sells over better features & quality of a competing product almost every single time.
Movie Industry Support:
Don't you think the average person has kids? hell even if they don't I know I personally love Disney productions, especially the pixar stuff. When you look and see that all major studio's but one back Blu-Ray that alone coupled with the fact that FOX,DISNEY & ALL Sony pictures group films will never see the light of day on HDDVD that alone is enough to scare most people away. Lets not forget Disney isn't just disney, it's buenavista & miramax which have tons of great titles. I for one would & will trade one studio(universal) for like what is it, 6 or 7 on Blu Ray that aren't going HDDVD. yeah the fanboi's say "Well maybe the HDDVD will get Disney" well, don't hold your breath.
Paper Facts:
On paper Blu-ray outperforms HDDVD, the specs don't lie. Its however up to the people in charge of making the software to make it live up to the specifications. Right now, HDDVD is living up to it's full potential (barring 45gb which is still debateable as to wether it will see playing time)
Blu-Ray has all the codec support HDDVD has, in addition...higher bit rate abailities and more storage space, and better security against pirating a fact that normally most people would say..."well hows that a good thing?"
It's a good thing because it has lead to Blu Ray getting Fox and probably other studios, and HDDVD not getting them. The movie studios hold all the cards, and if you don't play by their rules...you don't play at all. This is why HDDVD was shunned by Fox.
Thats the gist of things way i see it. from someone who works in the field daily dealing with the average person. right now, as far as my store is concerned anyways, price hasn't been a deciding factor in people choosing one player over the other. We've sold just as many BD-p1000's as HDDVD's and we've had the HDDVD 3 months longer. So i can only imagine as prices coem down, and more players come available, more movies show up on the shelf, what will happen.
The problem is that the way that BD50 mass produced discs are made is a completely different process then that by which BD50-RE discs are made. You can't have a BD50 movie disc costing the $40+ or so that BD50-RE discs currently run. In fact, that cost pretty much shows that they are not having an 'easy' time making those discs!
.
this to me shows, they can charge whatever they want...because they have got away with it in the past. CD's & DVDRW's where similarly priced when they first came out too.
I am amazed more people aren't shocked at the 90% failure rate. If just about anything else that was to be mass-produced had a 90% failure rate, it would be scrapped.
this is hearsay...until i see otherwise.
i've heard anywhere from 40%-now 90! wow...thats a new record.
next will be 99%...i dont buy it.
If it was that bad, i seriously doubt engineers from almost ALL CE companies would give the Nod to BR over HDDVD. the amount of companies backing BR over HDDVD speaks to this alone.
I do expect we will see this issue resolved, but I am far less than confident that it will be resolved in the short order that others are hoping for. I will be VERY happily suprised if it is solidly fixed prior to 2007.
this is hearsay...until i see otherwise.
i've heard anywhere from 40%-now 90! wow...thats a new record.
next will be 99%...i dont buy it.
If it was that bad, i seriously doubt engineers from almost ALL CE companies would give the Nod to BR over HDDVD. the amount of companies backing BR over HDDVD speaks to this alone.
I've been hearing 90% for a while now. I doubt we'll ever see full confirmation of any percentage, because Sony would be even more insane than they already are to present their defect rates at the moment.
The 90% number may be a bit off, but there was actually a post from someone on AVS Forum - who was NOT Amir and was working in a reproduction shop. Actually working the machines that duplicates Blu-ray Discs. His info is about as accurate as I expect we could hope for.
But, it is also fairly early on. 90% is the reason why we aren't seeing BD50 movies release yet. I think 40% would be incredibly high, but they would at least get a couple of killer movies out if they could get production to that level - at least until they worked bugs out of the system.
Spin coating is rumored to be far better than traditional methods... so maybe that's the solution. But, building a full spin coating setup (whatever that consists of) likely will take months at the very least.
Patience is the key with Blu-ray... unfortunately, many of the early adopters out there simply don't have it.
this is hearsay...until i see otherwise.
i've heard anywhere from 40%-now 90! wow...thats a new record.
next will be 99%...i dont buy it.
If it was that bad, i seriously doubt engineers from almost ALL CE companies would give the Nod to BR over HDDVD. the amount of companies backing BR over HDDVD speaks to this alone.
I couldn't agree more. Well stated as well in your earlier post. I've seen many of the % numbers thrown around as well, and I'm just not buying it either. My question is, how are people so familiar with the intricacies of BD disc sucess or failure rates? Furthermore, if someone is on a BD disc line, how are they spouting off %s and not getting their a$$ handed to them for disclosing any of this information. Answer, I don't think anyone really is, I think it is either blown up or entirely made up.
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