120hz question.

[ShoNuff]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

The PS3 can output 60i, 60p, and 24p

60p, huh?

[OokieSpookie]

Originally Posted by Grisle

Would video games look better with 120Hz?

I wouldn't think so.
Console games cap out at 60fps if they are lucky , pc games on the other hand could benefit in theory.

[PS34EVER]

Originally Posted by PS34EVER

What is better to view? I have a Samsung HL-T5687s and it looks to me that I need a firmware update on my TV for it to be able to do 24fps.

I was wondering if I should try to get the firmware update if it is that big of a difference?

Thoughts?

Well, that sucks! I cannot even get a firmware update for my TV.

Here is what it says on Samsung's website:

Unless there is a general problem with the firmware for a TV, or a major change in broadcast protocols, Samsung does not offer firmware upgrades for its TVs.

Guess I'm screwed.

[Grisle]

So what's the difference between the Bravia engines Pro and Ex? I'm trying to decide if 120Hz will be worth it for me.

[halmo20]

I don't think I would ever wanna turn on 120 while watching a movie... too un-natural for my own taste.... I would however like to leave it on while watching bloomberg or cnn.... scrolling text always bothered me... not so with 120hz.!!

[U4K61]

Its too bad not enouf is being done to provide a choice of user controlled frame rates or refresh rates as they say in the PC world. We could be using intiger multiples of 24 for 24fps film: 24,48,72,96 and 120. The larger HD picture and the closer we sit, the more obvious 3:2 motion judder is. 120hz providing 5:5 pulldown at last solves this problem, but some do not perform this correctly if they arrive at 120hz by 60x2 rather then 24x5!

[OokieSpookie]

Originally Posted by Craig Ruchman

Its too bad not enouf is being done to provide a choice of user controlled frame rates or refresh rates as they say in computer parlence. We should be seeing things in multiples of 24: 48, 72 etc. The better the HD picture, the more obvious 3:2 judder is. 120hz is 2x60 with the same cadence issue.

Well many do say that 120hz will be key in bringing true 3D into the home.

[zak88lx]

Best Buy had Pirates of the Caribbean playing on a Samsung 120hz TV.
It just looks wrong to me, almost like a PBS special.

Zak

[Deciazulado]

There are 2 things that are different:

Watching a 24 frames per second movie refreshed 5 times to 120 Hz (24 x 5 = 120); and watching 24 frame per second motion interpolated to 60 or 120 fps. The first retains the film look while eliminating the 3:2 judder. The second makes the film motion look more fluid, like "live" motion. Lets call it "electronically reprocessed liveliness"




You could do the same thing with programs shot at 30fps (which look a little livelier that 24fps) and either refresh 30fps 2x or 4x to 60 Hz (what most TVs do now) or 120 Hz respectively, retaining the same look (no 3:2 judder to be eliminated in this case); or interpolate 30fps to 60/120 fps making it livelier still.

[cleric]

Only 5:5 tvs I've seen are on Toshiba's website. Pioneers are 3:3.

The reason interpolating 120hz doesn't look better is because its making up frames that don't exist and its not very good at it at least on the sony and samsungs (thats all I've looked at it on) the picture lag that sometimes happens is laughably bad and yea its like watching the bbc. If you notice jutter now a tv that supports 3:3 or 5:5 pulldown might be good for you but not many people notice and most of these new 120hz tvs are gimmicky and go in the wrong direction and actually make the problem worse imo.

[Maxell]

Originally Posted by zak88lx

Best Buy had Pirates of the Caribbean playing on a Samsung 120hz TV.
It just looks wrong to me, almost like a PBS special.

Zak

We have the same display in my store. It's a 40" with Auto Motion which gives blu-rays a 3-d effect.

[thePope666]

Originally Posted by Maxell

We have the same display in my store. It's a 40" with Auto Motion which gives blu-rays a 3-d effect.

i know what u guys are talking about it reminds me of 1.5 FF or makes me feel like i'm a speed freak. I don't think its that impressive but maybe thats a movie it doesnt work well with?

[jling84]

Regular HDTVs already get a bit of the 3D effect from Blu-Rays because of how crisp the picture is. You can see this if you put your Contrast and Sharpness way up (don't leave it this way though).

Like others have said, it really depends on your tastes. I think 120hz is a bit of a spectacle and will probably make you do a double take when you see it in stores as it gives Blu-Rays an extreme 3D effect (it does this by making the pictures extremely sharp and is really good at showing depth). However, most people feel that it makes the film look "fake" as the directors definitely did not intend for their films to look this way. In the end, go with whatever floats your boat.

[U4K61]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

Well many do say that 120hz will be key in bringing true 3D into the home.

120Hz could be part of a 3D system, though 5:5 120hz would leave 60hz for each eye bringing use back to the non-intiger 3:2 cadence issue again. There are some 240Hz sets in the wings that could provide 10:10 pulldown giving a 120Hz 5:5 intiger multiple of 24fps for each eye.

[dominica]

Here is some info to start. Has info on what TV's do true 24p etc.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=997138

[DV92Camaro]

Originally Posted by OokieSpookie

I wouldn't think so.
Console games cap out at 60fps if they are lucky , pc games on the other hand could benefit in theory.

Actually the frame rate is smoother with 120htz turned on. Its really noticable on Motorstorm. I notice a difference with COD4 as well as its smoother.

[Bluoholic]

If you like your movies to look like day time soap operas than by all means go for it.

[Neo65]

Yes to get the timing right (ie : repeat 5 frames for 24fps, 2 for 60i (after deinterlacing to 60P)).

No to interpolation --- that stuff is toxic, but people will get impressed by a few demos and some will even replace their tv sets to get the new must have feature, but it doesn't improve quality and can cause strange artifacts.

There is no way you can correctly fill in the 4 missing frames between two actual frames from the movies.

The objects in each frame cannot be isolated and matched to the corresponding object in the other frame.

The video processor cannot determine the trajectory of movement of each object in each frame to the next and interpolate correctly, it can only work on pixels.

I'd find a way to turn it off.

[Mr. Hanky]

Originally Posted by Neo65

There is no way you can correctly fill in the 4 missing frames between two actual frames from the movies.

The objects in each frame cannot be isolated and matched to the corresponding object in the other frame.

The video processor cannot determine the trajectory of movement of each object in each frame to the next and interpolate correctly, it can only work on pixels.

In fact, it does work out the trajectories of movement- pixels vs. objects...it works the same regardless of how the video processor "sees" them. Tracking the motion of screen elements is a core function that makes video compression work, in the first place. Tweening the contents of 2 reference frames is simply an extension of the same concept/technology, except the information is used to synthesize new frames instead of compressing/decompressing data. So it's not like this kind of data processing isn't based on firmly established principles, already.

[Mermen79]

Originally Posted by Bluoholic

If you like your movies to look like day time soap operas than by all means go for it.

I don't agree with people who say things like this. While the motion is much smoother on 120hz sets, it doesn't look the same as 29.97fps video. It looks more like the action is happening in front of you (like looking out a window). It's nice and is a great feature to experience but many people like the 3:2 pulldown look of 60hz sets.