4K on PS4 and Xbox One?

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

The question is not "if these consoles CAN support 4K".... The only question that matters is: "WILL they?"

And the answer seems to be: "maybe streaming services, not discs"

Nobody cares about theoretical capabilities, but only what these machines actually DO...

Again, you have to ignore that there is a test player for Game consoles and there are only two on the market. That there is a UHD test player for the PC means that there will be UHD blu-ray support on PCs right?

Can you imagine the XB1 with UHD blu-ray and not the PS4 or the reverse?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Again, you have to ignore that there is a test player for Game consoles and there are only two on the market. That there is a UHD test player for the PC means that there will be UHD blu-ray support on PCs right?

Can you imagine the XB1 with UHD blu-ray and not the PS4 or the reverse?

Supposing you're correct that support is possible with current hardware, I can imagine an incentive for Sony to withhold announcement of PS4 UHD support plans for now (to move some stand-alone player hardware until player prices/costs fall closer into line with those of the PS4 so as not to cannibalize their own profit margin), but what possible reason does Microsoft have to not trumpet support from the mountaintop and beat Sony to the punch/market?

[Frank@Chicago]

Put me in the conspiracy camp, I don't believe Sony either.

I suspect that both PS4/X1 could probably provide limited UHD playback with a firmware update (HD audio side would be the most limited).

However, both MS and Sony are making good money off their respective online shops and so it makes more sense for them to play dumb.

Sony recently developed a PS2 emulator for PS4, but I can't use my actual PS2 discs (surprise!).

I have to re-buy my games again and download them. Yea...no.

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Can you imagine the XB1 with UHD blu-ray and not the PS4 or the reverse?

It'll at most have the same impact as the PS3 not supporting HD DVD and the Xbox 360 not supporting Blu-ray. Very, very few people will notice and even fewer will care.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Supposing you're correct that support is possible with current hardware, I can imagine an incentive for Sony to withhold announcement of PS4 UHD support plans for now (to move some stand-alone player hardware until player prices/costs fall closer into line with those of the PS4 so as not to cannibalize their own profit margin), but what possible reason does Microsoft have to not trumpet support from the mountaintop and beat Sony to the punch/market?

Sony is not even going to launch a UHD BD Player first generation....

It would be perfect for them to add UHD BD playback with a firmware update on the top selling hardware in the world right now....

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Sony is not even going to launch a UHD BD Player first generation....

It would be perfect for them to add UHD BD playback with a firmware update on the top selling hardware in the world right now....

Exactly. Were it feasible to do so, their holding off would make very little sense to me.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by NARMAK

Try and remember, PS4 supports 4k streaming already.

Actually,

It doesn't.

About the UHD playback on PS4, yes it is entirely possible. So my question remains..

How do market a newer model when someone who has the older one will not playback UHD? + expect to profit from it & the hardware revision when PS5 has been in the shop since 2012

Ahhhhhh

[Mavrick]

Could PS4 do 4K? Theoretically yes it could. There is hardware such as the new Sky Q box that is able to be updated to enable 4K, so HDCP and HDMI profiles can be updated via firmware updates, it's more a question of WILL Sony bother to do it.

They haven't even announced a stand alone yet, so I don't think we will see anything on the console front for a while. I would bet if anything UHD playback on PS4 would be limited to Sonys own content delivery platform.

I'm still of the belief that we will have a PS5 by 2019 anyway. So there's not really that long to wait and I'm sure that it will have UHD playback built in.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Frank@Chicago

Put me in the conspiracy camp, I don't believe Sony either.

I suspect that both PS4/X1 could probably provide limited UHD playback with a firmware update (HD audio side would be the most limited).

However, both MS and Sony are making good money off their respective online shops and so it makes more sense for them to play dumb.

Sony recently developed a PS2 emulator for PS4, but I can't use my actual PS2 discs (surprise!).

I have to re-buy my games again and download them. Yea...no.

From Tensilica on their Xtensa processors for Blu-ray players which Sony has been using since 2007 in their blu-ray players. An upgraded version is in the XB1 and PS4 as well as AMD True Audio.

Blu-ray Disc Players and Set-Top Boxes

Blu-ray Disc™ players and recorders require extensive digital signal processing—and Cadence® Tensilica® dataplane processors are right in there, doing the heavy DSP processing. Just look at the things that need to be engineered in a Blu-ray Disc player:

Audio Processing
Video/Graphics Processing
Security/DRM
Wireless
Applications Processing

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Oniros

Have Sony and Microsoft mentioned anything regarding including support for 4K for their respective consoles in the future? If any of the 2 eventually includes a UHD drive on a "slim/elite" redesign I would definitely get one.

Sony is considering releasing a revision of the PS4 that would support 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray. If they make it though it might not get released for a few years.

[aaronwt2065]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Sony is considering releasing a revision of the PS4 that would support 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray. If they make it though it might not get released for a few years.

If they did I hope they speed things up. The PS4 is surprising slow with BD playback. It's one of the reasons it's a last resort for me to use it for BD playback. My Sony S6500 is much faster and much, much quieter than my PS4 for BD playback.

I hope the Sammy UHD BD player is also quiet. Hopefully I'll be able to pick it up next week.

[scorpiontail60]

They could easily support 4K videos up to 30 Hz with their HDMI 1.4 ports. Both devices have enough combined CPU/GPU power to decode HEVC. And they don't even need HDCP 2.2, but Hollywood is retarded and continues to insist on this already compromised copy "protection" being on every 4K device, as if HDCP 2.2 strippers haven't been widely available for less than 50 bucks for almost a year now.

So yeah, Microsoft and Sony are probably going to be retarded and either not support 4K videos or only support it on new models and lose out on millions of dollars in revenue from existing owners just so they can have the already broken HDCP 2.2 copy protection on there. Sony actually has a 4K digital download store they could port over to the PS4 called "Video Unlimited 4K" but instead they've got it tied to a proprietary device no one bought called the FMP-X10 because the PS4 doesn't have HDCP 2.2, thus missing out on the potential revenue from 35 million+ PS4 owners

Meanwhile pirates have been using HDCP 2.2 strippers and HDMI 2.0 capture cards to gank shit off every HDCP 2.2 device soooo yeah insisting on this new copy protection is working out real well, isn't it Hollywood?

[jeff_rigby]

To answer and correct the last three posts:

Ito mentioned a more powerful PS4 could be released that could play UHD and was corrected by another Sony employee who said he was just speculating.

The Movie industry insisted that the HDMI 2 HDCP take place in the same TEE as the Blu-ray decoding takes place and be firmware updatable. This meant the END of a traditional HDMI chip. The PS4 Southbridge is a ARM Trustzone TEE and all commercial media enters it encrypted and exits encrypted as HDCP2.2 or greater which is then sent to a custom HDMI chip that can handle the added bandwidth and FPS which is also needed for VR.

The HEVC codec is not fixed, it's evolving as it has hooks to support upgrading and needs Multi-view (for IPTV on Cable and Antenna TV) then Multi-view plus Depth for 3D. There is currently no such thing as a fixed "hardware" Codec for HEVC. Accelerators like the Xtensa IVP DPU are used for software codecs. One of the wrong arguments that the PS4 and XB1 couldn't support HEVC was that they didn't have this hardware codec that was developed after the PS4 and XB1 were released, this is so wrong as to be laughable. A fixed hardware codec for HEVC was still not possible in 2015. ARM has DPU accelerators also to support a HEVC Software codec.

I keep posting that there is no hardware upgrade needed to support UHD Blu-ray.... In Order

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=916219
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1086342
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=929377
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1083116

An interesting observation for what it is worth. I believe the next major PS3 and PS4 firmware update will be all about Media. It may not have UHD blu-ray support but I believe it will support DLNA 4 on the PS4; March??. ALL players will be consolidated into one native library player that supports multiple DRMs including Playready and AACS; that's the HTML5 <Video>EME MSE for TV, IPTV, HD & UHD Blu-ray and Ultraviolet.

Google with the HTML5 Android player (Youtube) now supports redirecting to DLNA platforms in the home. Vidipath DLNA players will additionally support Playready DRM allowing commercial media to also be redirected to them via DLNA or Miracast if there is no common DRM like Playready.

UHD blu-ray may wait till this holiday season.

The next major PS3 firmware update will be 5
The next major PS4 firmware update will be 4

If you add PS3 + 5 = 8
If you add PS4 + 4 = 8

Originally Posted by http://www.asian-central.com/stuffasianpeoplelike/2008/08/08/88-numbers-8-8-08/

That prestigious position, without question has to go to the number 8. Our good friend ‘eight”� (in Chinese at least) is a near homonym for the words for ‘wealth“� or ‘prosperity.”� The Roman numerical ’8″� is also symmetrical ““ putting it at the top of the numerical dog-pile. Look at it this way, if there was some sort of Asian beat-down where each number from zero to nine had to fight each other to the death; ‘eight”� would come out triumphant without even raising a sweat. From more obscure acts such as the purchase of the Chinese phone number 8888-8888 for approximately $US270,000, to the enormity of the Beijing Olympic Games opening ceremony on 08/08/08 at 8.08:08 p.m. ““ the number eight is totally all-encompassing, and affects us Asians in a way we cannot imagine!

The above is the result of 4 years of reading to keep up with what's happening in the CE industry. My retirement portfolio depends on my knowing what is going to happen. With 4K blu-ray digital bridge, Antenna & Cable TV DVR made possible because of a mandated Downloadable security scheme, ATSC 2 and ATSC 3 and Playready (Vidipath) allowing media serving/streaming, a PC as Media hub under the TV becomes a must have. This is a 2013 PS4 & XB1 or a 2015 - 2016 PC possibly older that has a SMALL AMD APU and the proper power modes and security to support under 21 watt IPTV. Stock that should rocket = AMD and Microsoft & Sony sometime between now and 2018.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

It'll at most have the same impact as the PS3 not supporting HD DVD and the Xbox 360 not supporting Blu-ray. Very, very few people will notice and even fewer will care.

If it can support one UHD delivery method it can support all. It's not just about UHD Blu-ray. If it can't support UHD Blu-ray it can't support any coming Media scheme and it's dead as far as media is concerned within 2 years. 1080P and lower will also be delivered via HEVC to reduce bandwidth which impact Cable TV mandated caps. ATSC 3 requires HEVC multi-view which will be primarily used to stream multiple 720P and 1080P streams (twice as many AS h.264).

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

I believe it will support DLNA 4 on the PS4

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

The next major PS3 firmware update will be 5
The next major PS4 firmware update will be 4

If you add PS3 + 5 = 8
If you add PS4 + 4 = 8

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

The above is the result of 4 years of reading to keep up with what's happening in the CE industry.

Astonishing!

4 years of reading, and you're posting about the PS4...4 + 4 = 8! It all makes sense now!

Also, look who's leading Sony Interactive Entertainment and what his title is:

Andrew House
President & Global CEO
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
Sr. General Manager
Sony Network Entertainment

Rearrange the letters in bold, and the hidden message is revealed: "Ultra HD Blu-ray"! All the signs were there all along. Thanks for opening my eyes! I definitely need to update my retirement portfolio accordingly.

[Frank@Chicago]

Many people feel Sony has gotten semi-shady in recent years.

You can't even play a CD (!) in the PS4, but they had time to develop and port an entire music subscription/streaming service to the PS4.

The PS3 could basically do anything (PS1, PS2, CDs) and the cutting-edge PS4 is somehow unable to do much of anything internally.

The PS4 has been gimped by Sony and setup as a digital steaming/download gateway.

Welcome to the PayStation 4.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

Astonishing!

4 years of reading, and you're posting about the PS4...4 + 4 = 8! It all makes sense now!

Also, look who's leading Sony Interactive Entertainment and what his title is:

Andrew House
President & Global CEO
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
Sr. General Manager
Sony Network Entertainment

Rearrange the letters in bold, and the hidden message is revealed: "Ultra HD Blu-ray"! All the signs were there all along. Thanks for opening my eyes! I definitely need to update my retirement portfolio accordingly.

I guess you haven't been following Sony very closely as they do this quite often. Several people at Sony have a sense of humor which you are denying.

Why don't you wait to see if the PS3 and PS4 get major media firmware updates with PS3 Firmware 5 and PS4 firmware 4 sometime around this March. See if the features match what I've been posting about.

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Several people at Sony have a sense of humor which you are denying.

I'm hardly denying that anyone at Sony has a sense of humor.

I am saying that PS3 + firmware 5.0 = PS4 + firmware 4.0 = 8 and that 8 = extensive media updates is pathological.

I guess we'll see in March! Your previous dates haven't been on-target, like when you thought the PS4 would have Ultra HD Blu-ray support not just announced but implemented in October (after UHD BD had already been pushed back to 2016).

Just to be clear, though, I'm not denying that there could be extensive media updates in the next major PS4 firmware revision. (I'd expect any point-oh update to be significant!) I'm not even denying that the PS4 will ever be able to play Ultra HD Blu-ray discs. All I'm saying is that when the question is "has Sony indicated that the PS4 will play UHD BD discs?", the answer is "no". It's not "they're effectively saying 'yes' because Xtensa ooVoo HTML 5 <video> DLNA ATSC 3.0"; it's a simple, straightforward "no". Everything else is speculation. Well, nearly everything is speculation. I don't know what you'd call PS3 + 5.0 = 8 = media firmware update revolution.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

I guess you haven't been following Sony very closely as they do this quite often. Several people at Sony have a sense of humor which you are denying.

Why don't you wait to see if the PS3 and PS4 get major media firmware updates with PS3 Firmware 5 and PS4 firmware 4 sometime around this March. See if the features match what I've been posting about.

Sony will likely pull the plug on PS3 & it's servers this year.

Sony also has nothing to gain by adding 4K support. They need to make money, not lose money. The PS division is sadly the most profitable for the company. Had they remained the dominate force with all other electronics they make, they'd likely be singing a different tune now with regard to 4K but the competition with Sammy & company gave them a right hook to the face.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Derb

Sony will likely pull the plug on PS3 & it's servers this year.

Sony also has nothing to gain by adding 4K support. They need to make money, not lose money. The PS division is sadly the most profitable for the company. Had they remained the dominate force with all other electronics they make, they'd likely be singing a different tune now with regard to 4K but the competition with Sammy & company gave them a right hook to the face.

Don't think so. The PS3 apps haven't changed since about 2012. Netflix for instance has the DRM as part of the app. That is soon not going to be allowed. DRM has to be embedded and Sony started on this road in 2011 and 11/2014 advertised a software job to implement Playready embedded in the PS3, PS4 and Vita. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=929377

Then you have the PDF Sony sent to the FCC a few months ago showing a PS3 Vidipath streaming from a Cable TV DVR. Vidipath requires embedded Playready.

For the PS3 a PDF on Passage was just released at the latest FCC DSTAC (Downloadable Security Technical Advisory Committee) meeting. Page 12 has a chart showing a PS3 being used as a Vidipath STB.

Top path is RVU which the PS3 already supports.
Direct Attach End to End (center path) which is all IPTV direct from a cable modem . The future but Cable can't currently support more than a small percentage of their customers going all IPTV.
Sony is definitely supporting Vidipath, page 12 bottom path (Traditional Cable TV with the DLNA CVP2 FCC mandate where a DVR with tuners converts a RF channel to IPTV streams )

Sony want's those millions and millions of PS3s as media STBs that have A Sony store and can support Playstation Vue. They are grandfathered in as far as IPTV power levels (80 watts) but I think a refresh has to support state of the art IPTV levels of about 20 watts or less which the PS4 is supposed to do when it gets the Media Firmware updates ( Full screen video all done in Southbridge with the AMD APU off).