X-Men Cinematic Universe

[BluLamp]

Originally Posted by mastadge

*coughbullshitcough*

Sorry, there seems to be something in my throat.

Don't you ruin this for me!
I essentially gave up on the series after Origins: Wolverine, and First Class because they were getting all kinds of sloppy with the continuity and recasting multiple roles. I was only able to bring myself to start watching again because they brought in the whole convoluted time travel/multiple threads plot device, and were even deliberately drawing attention to the fact that multiple people were playing the same role, and utilizing it within the films. It may be a somewhat cheap, and half-assed copout, but at least they've acknowledged and attempted to reconcile the mistakes through the storytelling. If they had just carried on with a single timeline, while making zero attempt to fix all the continuity muck-ups, I would have never even bothered to watch the last few films in the series.

[kemcha]

I just don't think that Fox Studios can pull it off. The problem is that they are limited to just mutants. Marvel Studios has been successful because it has a very large base of superheroes to choose from and they can crossover with each other. Sony and Universal recognized this problem and after some unsuccessful bids at releasing Spiderman and Hulk, they opted to come to an agreement with Marvel Studios.

20th Century Fox, if they were smart, they would come to some sort of agreement with Marvel Studios, allow Marvel to produce the films, incorporate them into the MCU and allow the X-Men and Fantastic Four films to be produced the way they should be produced. The problem is that Fox Studios won't find a different director. They need to get rid of Bryan Singer and his maddening ego and bring on new directors.

[toddly6666]

As much as people are sick of Mystique, it would be awkward to not have her in the next X-Men film. After reading about her Wikipedia storylines, I dont know how they can use anything from the comicbooks for her next movie storyline. She has been involved with Mister Sinister so maybe they'll use him to make the adjustment of Mystique finally going bad and sticking with Magneto. I wonder if she will naturally join the Brotherhood or maybe her mind will be tampered with to have no choice but to join the Brotherhood. Or maybe she goes completely bad with no love from the X-Men and somehow Magneto saves her at the end. Wonder if they'll use the "Mystique is Nightcrawler's mother" story because she did save him from the cage match at beginning of Apocalypse.

[mastadge]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I just don't think that Fox Studios can pull it off. The problem is that they are limited to just mutants.

I disagree. There are plenty of mutants and plenty of drama to be had. The major problems, as I see it, are:

- These should be team movies, but 8 or 9 movies in we barely have a team. They keep starting over. They introduce lots of characters, but those groups never grow to the point where they function well as a team. They introduced characters in FC, then in DOFP they were all scattered and we were back to the Erik and Charles show again, having the same conversations we've been having for 15 years almost verbatim. That movie cruelly teased us with a team at the beginning before taking that away from us.
- They keep messing with the continuity. Origins tried to be in continuity with X-Men and failed. DOFP tried to hit the reset button, but in the meantime it also randomly gave characters new powers and took away powers they were known to have, and the reset at the end made no sense by any standards of time travel cinema.

They need to get a solid roster together. They need to stop having the same conflict over and over. Once they have a team that can function as a team they can up the ante with the character drama and branch out with the plots.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by mastadge

I disagree. There are plenty of mutants and plenty of drama to be had. The major problems, as I see it, are:

- These should be team movies, but 8 or 9 movies in we barely have a team. They keep starting over. They introduce lots of characters, but those groups never grow to the point where they function well as a team. They introduced characters in FC, then in DOFP they were all scattered and we were back to the Erik and Charles show again, having the same conversations we've been having for 15 years almost verbatim. That movie cruelly teased us with a team at the beginning before taking that away from us.
- They keep messing with the continuity. Origins tried to be in continuity with X-Men and failed. DOFP tried to hit the reset button, but in the meantime it also randomly gave characters new powers and took away powers they were known to have, and the reset at the end made no sense by any standards of time travel cinema.

They need to get a solid roster together. They need to stop having the same conflict over and over. Once they have a team that can function as a team they can up the ante with the character drama and branch out with the plots.

They need to basically make a lot of films which take place in the 1990s. No need for Magneto, Mystique and Brotherhood for next films. There are so many adventures the X-Men team can have while still keeping somewhat continuity before the events of the final present timeline of Days of Future Past. With the new cast of always Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Jubilee and Nightcrawler they will be fine. Each new film they can get help from other mutants - Collosus, Cable, Forge, Gambit, etc. Plenty of other villains too. It would be nice if Macovy stays as Professor X but they could recast him too. Magneto is already the greatest most developed comic book villain movie character as of now. There is really no need to use him ever again.

[Blu-Curry]

For the next film in the 90's, bring in Gambit and a new Rogue, take out Mystique, potentially have weapon 21, have Mr. Sinister and some other henchmen mutants.

And I said this in the Apocalypse thread: With that ending, moving forward

[Show spoiler]with Magneto I hope they get into his Genosha material. He can't always be "the bad guy" (even though he's one of the greatest villains), but with that ending and a changed timeline, I don't see him being as evil as McKellen's Magneto. Fox seems to be finally embracing the X-Men lore, so in the next film set in the 90's it would be cool to see tensions rise against mutants due to the Apocalypse aftermath (even though mutants saved the day!), and Magneto fights to defend Genosha. Also, Mr. Sinister!

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by mastadge

Origins tried to be in continuity with X-Men and failed.

Failed how?

Originally Posted by mastadge

the reset at the end made no sense by any standards of time travel cinema.

On the contrary, it's the standard "single timeline" setup that's so popular in time travel fiction circles. For example, when Star Trek ( 2009 ) used a different time travel paradigm it was bashed frequently for not doing time travel in the single-timeline fashion that the franchise had typically adhered to.

[Rodney-2187]

I would love a Deadpool cameo in an X-men movie. I would also love for anything X-men to cameo in Deadpool 2.

[kemcha]

The problem is that every decision Bryan Singer has made has been a disaster. First, he gives us X-Men and X2: X-Men United. Them Bryan Singer jumps ship to Warner Brothers where his Superman movie was a disaster, then goes crawling back to Fox, demanding to come back to X-Men where he seems to retcon everything about what makes the X-Men so popular in the comic books.

Unfortunately, Singer hasn't been able to capture the characters and the storylines from the comic book series. For one thing, Mystique was never an original member of the X-Men. Angel, Beast, Jean Grey, Cyclops and Icemen were the "first class" of the X-Men. Wolverine, Storm, Colossus, Kitty Pryde, Nightcrawler and Thunderbird were all part of the second class, with Scott Summers and Jean Grey staying on with the new team.

While I'm excited that the next X-Men movie will feature the Sh'iar and the Dark Phoenix Saga, that storyline also set up the epic storyline featuring the Shi'ar, Starjammers and the Alien Brood saga that ran through X-Men 154-166. It's just doubtful that Singer will do an adaption that's faithful to the Dark Phoenix Saga.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by kemcha

The problem is that every decision Bryan Singer has made has been a disaster. First, he gives us X-Men and X2: X-Men United. Them Bryan Singer jumps ship to Warner Brothers where his Superman movie was a disaster, then goes crawling back to Fox, demanding to come back to X-Men where he seems to retcon everything about what makes the X-Men so popular in the comic books.

Unfortunately, Singer hasn't been able to capture the characters and the storylines from the comic book series. For one thing, Mystique was never an original member of the X-Men. Angel, Beast, Jean Grey, Cyclops and Icemen were the "first class" of the X-Men. Wolverine, Storm, Colossus, Kitty Pryde, Nightcrawler and Thunderbird were all part of the second class, with Scott Summers and Jean Grey staying on with the new team.

While I'm excited that the next X-Men movie will feature the Sh'iar and the Dark Phoenix Saga, that storyline also set up the epic storyline featuring the Shi'ar, Starjammers and the Alien Brood saga that ran through X-Men 154-166. It's just doubtful that Singer will do an adaption that's faithful to the Dark Phoenix Saga.

Yeah, and about 1/10th of 1% of the viewing public give a flying F about any of that.

Next time you're at Starbucks or whatever, ask a random person if Mystique was an original member of the X-Men. See how that turns out.

[HD Canuck]

Bring Havoc back so that he can save the X-Men with chewing gum, tin foil, and a paper clip.

[BluLamp]

Originally Posted by kemcha

The problem is that every decision Bryan Singer has made has been a disaster. First, he gives us X-Men and X2: X-Men United. Them Bryan Singer jumps ship to Warner Brothers where his Superman movie was a disaster, then goes crawling back to Fox, demanding to come back to X-Men where he seems to retcon everything about what makes the X-Men so popular in the comic books.

Unfortunately, Singer hasn't been able to capture the characters and the storylines from the comic book series. For one thing, Mystique was never an original member of the X-Men. Angel, Beast, Jean Grey, Cyclops and Icemen were the "first class" of the X-Men. Wolverine, Storm, Colossus, Kitty Pryde, Nightcrawler and Thunderbird were all part of the second class, with Scott Summers and Jean Grey staying on with the new team.

While I'm excited that the next X-Men movie will feature the Sh'iar and the Dark Phoenix Saga, that storyline also set up the epic storyline featuring the Shi'ar, Starjammers and the Alien Brood saga that ran through X-Men 154-166. It's just doubtful that Singer will do an adaption that's faithful to the Dark Phoenix Saga.

The X-Men have always been far and away my favorite of Marvel's comic characters, and I also loved the animated series to pieces growing up, but I frankly don't care if the films are like the source material or not. Different medium, different makers. They could start doing entirely new stories with brand new characters, and it would be no skin off my teeth. They could marry off Mystique and Charles and give them a litter of little Mystiques who run around solving mysteries and stopping crimes, and as long as it was done in a way that I personally found engaging, it would be a-okay with me.

[toddly6666]

Originally Posted by BluLamp

The X-Men have always been far and away my favorite of Marvel's comic characters, and I also loved the animated series to pieces growing up, but I frankly don't care if the films are like the source material or not. Different medium, different makers. They could start doing entirely new stories with brand new characters, and it would be no skin off my teeth. They could marry off Mystique and Charles and give them a litter of little Mystiques who run around solving mysteries and stopping crimes, and as long as it was done in a way that I personally found engaging, it would be a-okay with me.

Exactly.

There was a point in my childhood that everytime I picked up an X-Men comic there was always inconsistent team members, same goes for The Avengers. It always threw me off a bit but then I got used to that inconsistency. I always wondered if the changes of the teams were smooth and gradual or all of a sudden a next issue would jarringly feature a new team. And if the transistion was smooth, did characters that left the team get some sort of goodbye? For example, if Collossus was part of the team and then some issues later he's not there, was there most likely some panel in between showing how "he's leaving to go back to Russia" for example?

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Yeah, and about 1/10th of 1% of the viewing public give a flying F about any of that.

Next time you're at Starbucks or whatever, ask a random person if Mystique was an original member of the X-Men. See how that turns out.

And on top of that there's guys like me who DID read all the comics for years and is pretty knowledgeable about a lot of it, and still overall is a big fan of Singer's X-Men film series.

I used to think it was hilarious when people were raging over First Class not being the "real" first class. As in, they didn't base the movie on the original comics from the 1960's, which had 5 white people representing an allegory for a repressed minority, and was a pretty unpopular comic that was cancelled until it was relaunched with the newer characters (Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, Thunder Bird, etc.)

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

And on top of that there's guys like me who DID read all the comics for years and is pretty knowledgeable about a lot of it, and still overall is a big fan of Singer's X-Men film series.

I used to think it was hilarious when people were raging over First Class not being the "real" first class. As in, they didn't base the movie on the original comics from the 1960's, which had 5 white people representing an allegory for a repressed minority, and was a pretty unpopular comic that was cancelled until it was relaunched with the newer characters (Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, Thunder Bird, etc.)

Heh.

I'm sure that when the Wonder Woman movie comes out next year, there will be aspects of the story that I don't feel match up with the character's history. Diana's my favorite character ever, by FAR. I'm not going to have a conniption, and as long as I enjoy the film, and the character basically is representative in general terms I will have a good time. And from what I've seen from BvS, they seem to have gotten her right in broad terms at least.

I really don't care if, say, the part of the film that is supposed to mirror issue #5 of Perez' run is exactly like the comic.

[ArrestedDevelopment]

Hopefully the future X-Men films focus on the young mutants:

Scott as the lead
Jean
Nightcrawler
Jubilee
Storm

No more wolverine please and mystique can **** off.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by ArrestedDevelopment

Hopefully the future X-Men films focus on the young mutants:

Scott as the lead
Jean
Nightcrawler
Jubilee
Storm

No more wolverine please and mystique can **** off.

No offense, but I'm not sure that you'd be very successful as a producer.

[Zillamon51]

Originally Posted by kemcha

I just don't think that Fox Studios can pull it off. The problem is that they are limited to just mutants. Marvel Studios has been successful because it has a very large base of superheroes to choose from and they can crossover with each other. Sony and Universal recognized this problem and after some unsuccessful bids at releasing Spiderman and Hulk, they opted to come to an agreement with Marvel Studios.

I strongly disagree. I like how grounded the cinematic X-universe is. It works because the mutants are the only fantastical element. I don't want to see aliens, sorcerers, ghosts, demons, or any other kind of thing mucking up the works. That would just detract from the central theme of human / mutant conflict.

[kemcha]

The problem is that when the first X-Men was released, I seem to recall Singer saying something that the X-Men would never go into space, which kind of dashed hopes for a lot of fans for a proper adaption of the Dark Phoenix Saga, the Shi'ar Star Empire, the Starjammers and what-not.

What makes it strange is that Marvel Studios and Fox Studios co-own the rights to some characters, such as Quicksilver and quite possibly, Scarlet Witch.

What's funny is that even though Alpha Flight debuted in the pages of the X-Men comic book, that Fox Studios doesn't own the rights, Marvel Studios does. They even started working towards an Alpha Flight, also having registered a domain name for the movie. Funny thing is, Alpha Flight isn't a mutant team per-se, although there are one or two mutant. Northstar and Aurora are the only two mutants on the team, which explains why Fox doesn't own the rights to that superhero team.

There was a big write up a few months ago about which characters Fox Studios, Sony, Universal and Marvel Studios owns: http://www.popculthq.com/2016/02/12/...udios-own-who/

[ArrestedDevelopment]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

No offense, but I'm not sure that you'd be very successful as a producer.

Lol, I'm looking at this from a moviegoer/fan's perspective. We all know what the studios and producers want to do to make the big bucks but you never know what could happen with some new content. Why continue paying big money for an aging A-list star and an actress who clearly doesn't want to be in the movie?

Maybe focusing on the new cast (who don't demand big paychecks btw) could pay off if they worked on creating a solid story that didn't depend on plastering JLaw's face all over the ****ing marketing, a completely useless subplot just to shoehorn in a cameo and instead of creating generic, world ending CGI shitfests they could sell a tighter, small scale, more relatable story (i.e. X1 and 2).