Should BDA carry the brunt of HD DVD's demise and give reparation to supporters?

[BillCable]

I think the best thing Warner could do is a free exchange on HD DVD titles, similar to what Sony did with the Fifth Element. You send in your HD DVD disc, you receive a replacement Blu-ray. The costs there would be minimal to WB ($2 per disc + shipping) and the good will generated would be immeasurable.

But I don't support subsidizing the purchase of players or any of that crap. They purchased a now worthless disc. Replace it with a viable one. That makes everything hunky-dory.

[DaViD Boulet]

Offered to anyone providing a proof of purchase of an HD DVD player (100K @ $98)? What about the ones that will sell for under $100 on eBay in coming months?

I think a disc exchange system is probably a more reasonable thing to suggest. The software is the investment. The hardware was destined to be replaced eventually anyway.

Guys, relax.

I'm not saying it has to be $300. But to anyone who's invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars in HD DVD, a $10 coupon isn't the answer either.

disc-trade ins are certainly reasonable. Whatever, the point is that pissing off some of your strongest disc-buying customers isn't the best way to jump-start a unified format. You need those consumers to sell the HD-disc concept to their friends and families... that's how format adoption spreads.

I think the best thing Warner could do is a free exchange on HD DVD titles, similar to what Sony did with the Fifth Element. You send in your HD DVD disc, you receive a replacement Blu-ray. The costs there would be minimal to WB ($2 per disc + shipping) and the good will generated would be immeasurable.

But I don't support subsidizing the purchase of players or any of that crap. They purchased a now worthless disc. Replace it with a viable one. That makes everything hunky-dory.

good points.

[LynxFX]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

I'm trying to remember my history.

Did such olive branches get extended during VHS/Betamax, or more recently, DVD/Divx?

Nope and infact with Divx they told owners that they had less than a year left to view their movies, then they were pulling the plug on their servers turning those discs into coasters. (you had to connect to their servers to authorize yourself to watch the movie, even if you purchased it flat out) At least with HD DVD they will still continue to play in their HD DVD players.

There is no need for an olive branch. If they want to watch future releases in HD, they'll have to buy the BD version and a player if they don't have one.

[Anthony P]

Did such olive branches get extended during VHS/Betamax, or more recently, DVD/Divx?

not as far as I remember

[sphdle1]

Originally Posted by coolmilo

HD DVD is not dead yet although it seems unlikely that HD DVD will last beyond 2008. But until Amazon, Best Buy, Target, and Walmart drop HD DVD and until Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks go neutral or BD exclusive, HD DVD will continue to survive. It's really up to the big boys to determine how much longer this silly format war will last.

Hopefully there will be some incentives to welcome or intice the HD DVD folks over to Blu-ray (we don 't want them to give up on HDM altogether and start buying DVD again). But this could be something that the BDA and HD DVD groups could work out and help Toshiba save face (last effort).

Well scratch "Target" off the list, they have announced they are going Blu-ray exclusive. Just a matter of weeks (IMHO) before the others make their announcements.

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Guys, relax.

I'm not saying it has to be $300. But to anyone who's invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars in HD DVD, a $10 coupon isn't the answer either.

disc-trade ins are certainly reasonable. Whatever, the point is that pissing off some of your strongest disc-buying customers isn't the best way to jump-start a unified format. You need those consumers to sell the HD-disc concept to their friends and families... that's how format adoption spreads.



good points.

They are going to be pissed no matter how you slice it. Up, down, left, right, sidways, upways, downways, anyways - nothing will change. They will still be bitter, unhappy and blah blah blah.

For instance - look at all the FUD that is going on now with just the announcement that Warner is going Blu. Look at all the horseshit lies that HD-DVD is coming up with, yet you want to reward that??

Please - explain?

[The Don]

from what I've read between David and Drinkmore....I think the only feasible option is for Warner to offer people who have supported HD-DVD is to offer a disc exchange from red to blu on their movies...

but then we'll see people buying bargain bin movies and exchanging them for new ones...

and then you have Matrix, Batman Begins, V for Vendetta etc..(if there is even any more) which muddies this situation...unless they do this after these 3 are released..

but even then I assume they would offer a remastered version of these movies and the exchange would be void...

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by sphdle1

Well scratch "Target" off the list, they have announced they are going Blu-ray exclusive. Just a matter of weeks (IMHO) before the others make their announcements.

Link?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Guys, relax.

I'm not saying it has to be $300. But to anyone who's invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars in HD DVD, a $10 coupon isn't the answer either.

disc-trade ins are certainly reasonable. Whatever, the point is that pissing off some of your strongest disc-buying customers isn't the best way to jump-start a unified format. You need those consumers to sell the HD-disc concept to their friends and families... that's how format adoption spreads.

I don't know if you're willing to pony up some piece of this bonus, but I'm not. That money has to come from someplace - and it will be either by manufacturers, who are in business to make a profit, and who will get it out of my wallet, or from studios, same story.

Whatever these costs are, they would be considered marketing funds. That is a corporate cost, and is passed on to consumers (raise your hand if you're one of those). They add up costs, put a margin on top of it, and sell products.

Think of it this way: would you be willing to stand in front of a store, handing out cash to anyone walking in with a sour expression and an obsolete machine or video in his hand?

[Alan Gordon]

Due to the preference for HD DVD on AVSForum last year, I bought an HD DVD player (for a lot more money than they have been recently). Less than a month after it was shipped to me, the 3 free HD DVD deal was upgraded to 5 free HD DVDs.

Earlier this year, after realizing that Blu-ray appeared to be going for the win, I bought a PS3. A month and a half later, they dropped the price on my particular SKU by $100 and started offering 5 free movies with it.

One WB movie I had on HD DVD, I have already replaced in a BD BOGO, others I will replace in the future (hopefully another BOGO). Some I will simply wait until a "Special Edition" comes years down the line to replace. Personally, if I was WB, I'd be remastering some Blu-ray titles that lacked HD DVD features (like lossless), and preferably a new high bit-rate encode to give HD DVD fans reason to upgrade, but that's just me!

Do I wish I hadn't listened to Amir's fud last year? YES!
Do I wish I hadn't listened to RDJAM/HD NOW's schizophrenic ravings? YES!
Do I wish I hadn't bought my HD DVD player and all those movies? YES!
Do I wish I had either bought my PS3 earlier, or waited a month later til it went down in price? Yeah, kinda...
Do I blame anybody for my mistakes... well, I'm not happy with some people at AVSForum, but no!

I may have a lot of faults, but I own up to my mistakes and take them like a man!

~Alan

[Anthony P]

I'm not saying it has to be $300. But to anyone who's invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars in HD DVD, a $10 coupon isn't the answer either.

disc-trade ins are certainly reasonable. Whatever, the point is that pissing off some of your strongest disc-buying customers isn't the best way to jump-start a unified format. You need those consumers to sell the HD-disc concept to their friends and families... that's how format adoption spreads.

But David are they? most of the HD DVD owners jut got their free disk. Also this is not food for the needy. These are people that even though the signs have been there for a long time have decided to ignore them (and some are still doing it). Either

a) they have the $ to play this game and will continue with BD (so don't need a hand out)
b) they have the money but are idiots (so don't need it)
c) never had the money but got conned and need a hand out (so why would you believe they will be buying a lot of BDs after the hand out)

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Same logic as the people who want the government to bail them out of adjustable rate mortgages.

Yes, it is, and that thought most certainly went through my mind as well. I didn't bring up that analogy though as it tends to get political, and I don't want to bring politics into this, if possible.

Originally Posted by Jeff®

Plus, how would Warner (as they geared up to pass out these $300 discounts on hardware) distinguish between dual format owners who might have previously purchased Warner HD DVDs, but are capable of switching to Warner BDs, and those who only bought HD DVD hardware and Warner software? Should the dual format owners get a $300 discount on a new BD player too because they can produce a receipt for an HD DVD?

Warner did absolutely nothing wrong. In fact they did the industry (and all customers of either format) a huge favor by making this decision now rather than later.

Warner customers (of HD DVDs) got to enjoy the movies that they purchased. They got their money's worth. They got what they paid for. Their discs still work. Everyone who purchased hardware during this format war should have known what they were getting into; there was a risk involved.

Well said Jeff! And I would be one of those dual format owners. I guess I should be entitled to $300.00 for another BD player!?

Originally Posted by jdc115

David,

People here seem quite certain that this outcome was obvious to all and that HD-DVD holders got what they deserve but I think this is a little short-sighted.

Ugh.

Who said this? Seriously, you are completely missing the point. It isn't a matter of wanting HD DVD supporters to "get what they deserve". It isn't a "revenge" or "spite" thing at all. It's a simple matter of living with the choice(s) that people made.

I am losing out as well. I do have some WB titles on HD DVD that were exclusive to that format. Do I feel pissed, or cheated, or entitled to some kind of reimbursement? Absolutely not. Why? Because this is the chance that I took. So did anyone else who bought Warner HD DVD's.

Probably nobody other then a few really understand all the work that went in to get us to where we are. Quite possibly HD-DVD could have won out due to politics reasons and Blu-ray would have been on the losing end.

Yeah, so?

What's the point?

Are you trying to say that we are hypocrites because we would feel differently if this went the other way? It just isn't true. I promise you I would feel exactly the same way if Warner went HD DVD exclusively.

So I don't fault people that bought into HD-DVD as they have probably had very valid reasons to do so (they liked some of the interactive features they had, their favorite movies were released in that format, etc).

There you go again. It isn't a matter of FAULT. It isn't a matter of whether they had valid reasons to buy HD DVD. OF COURSE THEY DID. So did I! Just being able to play Universal movies alone is a valid reason to buy into HD DVD. It isn't relevant to the discussion though!

So I don't think they should be written off as they got what they deserve, what ever reasonable incentives that can be done to get them on board to Blu will help speed up the adoption process that much quicker. Lets not alienate future BD customers.

Yet again: it isn't a matter of "getting what they deserve" as this implies some kind of revenge etc.

It is a simple concept: REGARDLESS of your reasons for buying into HD DVD, you still TOOK A CHANCE that the format would fail and that studios would not continue to support the format. Don't expect to be bailed out for that decision, regardless of how sound the reasons were.

If people weren't willing to accept the risks, they shouldn't have bought it (or Blu-ray for that matter) in the first place.

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

I'm trying to remember my history.

Did such olive branches get extended during VHS/Betamax, or more recently, DVD/Divx?

As stated, all HD DVD players are fully functional DVD players as well, so there's no real loss there. Simply some HD DVDs that won't be useful in the transition to Blu-ray.

I have seen companies do swap outs of competitor's products before. I don't see the BDA doing this sort of thing, but if Sharp to wants to boost their Blu-ray sales, they could offer a trade-in rebate to anybody with an HD-DVD player in order to gain ground. This usually goes on with larger enterprise deals but isn't necessarily bad business.

But I think it would be good for Warner to offer a swap out of media. There will be a lot of pissed customers and it is not in their interest to say, "Thanks for the HD-DVD sale but you got what you deserve, now go buy a copy in Blu." After all, they are stating they want the market to adopt Blu-ray so they are basically saying they want HD-DVD to die and they have many customers that bought HD-DVD from them.

[Охранное]

Originally Posted by BillCable

I think the best thing Warner could do is a free exchange on HD DVD titles, similar to what Sony did with the Fifth Element. You send in your HD DVD disc, you receive a replacement Blu-ray. The costs there would be minimal to WB ($2 per disc + shipping) and the good will generated would be immeasurable.

But I don't support subsidizing the purchase of players or any of that crap. They purchased a now worthless disc. Replace it with a viable one. That makes everything hunky-dory.

That makes the most sense to me. Either straight trade in on Warner titles, or buy one and get a free swap on one or two.

[Anthony P]

They are going to be pissed no matter how you slice it. Up, down, left, right, sidways, upways, downways, anyways - nothing will change. They will still be bitter, unhappy and blah blah blah.

agree. These people have been conned and people don't like feeling stupid. That is the real anger that is being felt. And sooner or later they will realize it is misplaced.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

I'm trying to remember my history.

Did such olive branches get extended during VHS/Betamax, or more recently, DVD/Divx?

I don't think home video was mature enough with the VHS/Betamax point. These were recording devices primarily. That's why Universal v. Sony.

DIVX gave a $100 a player rebate. But, those were still open DVD players too, so the consumer could still fully use the player.

Gary

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Yes, it is, and that thought most certainly went through my mind as well. I didn't bring up that analogy though as it tends to get political, and I don't want to bring politics into this, if possible.



Well said Jeff! And I would be one of those dual format owners. I guess I should be entitled to $300.00 for another BD player!?



Ugh.

Who said this? Seriously, you are completely missing the point. It isn't a matter of wanting HD DVD supporters to "get what they deserve". It isn't a "revenge" or "spite" thing at all. It's a simple matter of living with the choice(s) that people made.

I am losing out as well. I do have some WB titles on HD DVD that were exclusive to that format. Do I feel pissed, or cheated, or entitled to some kind of reimbursement? Absolutely not. Why? Because this is the chance that I took. So did anyone else who bought Warner HD DVD's.



Yeah, so?

What's the point?

Are you trying to say that we are hypocrites because we would feel differently if this went the other way? It just isn't true. I promise you I would feel exactly the same way if Warner went HD DVD exclusively.



There you go again. It isn't a matter of FAULT. It isn't a matter of whether they had valid reasons to buy HD DVD. OF COURSE THEY DID. So did I! Just being able to play Universal movies alone is a valid reason to buy into HD DVD. It isn't relevant to the discussion though!




Yet again: it isn't a matter of "getting what they deserve" as this implies some kind of revenge etc.

It is a simple concept: REGARDLESS of your reasons for buying into HD DVD, you still TOOK A CHANCE that the format would fail and that studios would not continue to support the format. Don't expect to be bailed out for that decision, regardless of how sound the reasons were.

If people weren't willing to accept the risks, they shouldn't have bought it (or Blu-ray for that matter) in the first place.

Thank you. I don't know where the "they deserve it" came from but that's not how I feel and I certainly hope that is not the general concensus of the people here. It's more of a - great - it's dead. Nothing more, nothing less. Nobody deserves anything. They made a choice, that is the consequence of their choice. End of story.

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

agree. These people have been conned and people don't like feeling stupid. That is the real anger that is being felt. And sooner or later they will realize it is misplaced.

Yeah - ALL HD-DVD owners were CONNED into buying their players and their movies. Uh huh.

PLEASE! I have not read more fud in my life than right here in this thread in the past hour.

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I don't know if you're willing to pony up some piece of this bonus, but I'm not. That money has to come from someplace - and it will be either by manufacturers, who are in business to make a profit, and who will get it out of my wallet, or from studios, same story.

Whatever these costs are, they would be considered marketing funds. That is a corporate cost, and is passed on to consumers (raise your hand if you're one of those). They add up costs, put a margin on top of it, and sell products.

Think of it this way: would you be willing to stand in front of a store, handing out cash to anyone walking in with a sour expression and an obsolete machine or video in his hand?

Great points.

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

Due to the preference for HD DVD on AVSForum last year, I bought an HD DVD player (for a lot more money than they have been recently). Less than a month after it was shipped to me, the 3 free HD DVD deal was upgraded to 5 free HD DVDs.

Earlier this year, after realizing that Blu-ray appeared to be going for the win, I bought a PS3. A month and a half later, they dropped the price on my particular SKU by $100 and started offering 5 free movies with it.

One WB movie I had on HD DVD, I have already replaced in a BD BOGO, others I will replace in the future (hopefully another BOGO). Some I will simply wait until a "Special Edition" comes years down the line to replace. Personally, if I was WB, I'd be remastering some Blu-ray titles that lacked HD DVD features (like lossless), and preferably a new high bit-rate encode to give HD DVD fans reason to upgrade, but that's just me!

Do I wish I hadn't listened to Amir's fud last year? YES!
Do I wish I hadn't listened to RDJAM/HD NOW's schizophrenic ravings? YES!
Do I wish I hadn't bought my HD DVD player and all those movies? YES!
Do I wish I had either bought my PS3 earlier, or waited a month later til it went down in price? Yeah, kinda...
Do I blame anybody for my mistakes... well, I'm not happy with some people at AVSForum, but no!

I may have a lot of faults, but I own up to my mistakes and take them like a man!

~Alan

Wow, a real life PERFECT example!

[darinp2]

I posted elsewhere that I thought Sony should sponsor a disc exchange program where people could exchange Warner HD DVDs for BDs, but didn't get the Blu-ray case (allowing them to just sell it easily as the Blu-ray version). They could put the BDs in their HD DVD cases and they would still work in their Blu-ray players. And I figured Sony should do it as it would help sell Sony Blu-ray players and hopefully bring a sooner end to the war, not because I think any company is obligate to do this.

But, some are making the point that some of this stuff wouldn't be fair to Blu-ray only owners. I'm mostly interested in this stuff as it relates to ending the war (with Blu-ray the winners), but to try to keep things somewhat fair and help bring about the end, how about a special half the normal street price (or BOGO) sale for all Warner Blu-ray titles one week, which could be advertised with some special phrase, like "Warner Going Blue Sale"? That way it could help get the word out about Warner (and hammer the point home to those who had heard it) and give one path to the transition. Sure, people could complain that they don't want to buy the same movies again even if they are cheap, but too bad IMO. It would be a gesture to make things easier and move more people over sooner. Plus, anybody who hadn't gotten in yet could still take advantage of the sale. And since it would be a one time event, it hopefully wouldn't get people to expect half price on those titles all the time.

Of course, there are the issues with getting enough inventories and picking the right stores to have the sale, along with not all the titles being available on both formats, but I personally like the idea of having a special sale to address this issue.

And given that it is one of the best sellers, kind of a special title with a high price, and only BD25s, maybe a disc only exchange for Planet Earth HD DVDs to BDs would be a good idea at this point.

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

Do I wish I hadn't listened to Amir's fud last year? YES!

I bet there are some who will let Amir deceive them toward downloads now. Some people are gullible and some people are such lowlifes that they go around trying to trick unsuspecting people for their own gain. Since you are probably reading this Amir, yes I'm talking about you. You owe people on the avsforum an apology for that deception you have pulled on them where to this day you are trying to keep them deceived about some bitrate breakthrough, where you know that you posted false information, but have tried to keep people believing it anyway. Please don't ask me to show you respect until you apologize to those people and quit taking the path a lowlife would take. And please don't play dumb like you don't know what I am talking about, because that would just confirm your lack of integrity even more. If you don't like me doing this in public, then don't deceive in public.

--Darin