The Godfather Part II 4K UHD (1974)

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

I really want to get Za Godfazaah discs on the format but the compression and DNR look here and there makes me get the heebie jeebies.

I thought the compression is actually much better on the UHD BDs vs the 2008 BDs.

The DNR didn't bother me too badly as it felt mild enough, but that is always a YMMV.

[johnnyringo7]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I thought the compression is actually much better on the UHD BDs vs the 2008 BDs.

The DNR didn't bother me too badly as it felt mild enough, but that is always a YMMV.

That's how it is. Bluray compression by current standards is not good, so noise is perceived in the image rather than grain. The UHD performs with much more solvency in that aspect.
And in relation to the grain, there is a sufficient amount in the presentation giving it a filmic aspect.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by johnnyringo7

That's how it is. Bluray compression by current standards is not good, so noise is perceived in the image rather than grain. The UHD performs with much more solvency in that aspect.
And in relation to the grain, there is a sufficient amount in the presentation giving it a filmic aspect.

The last time I watched the '08 BDs, the heavy grain took on a digitalized look where the compression looked like it was choking on it.

As far as the different color and highlight controversy, I still preferred the UHD BD.

[LanceL]

No Geoff review, yet? I snagged the first two for $12.99 last night!

[captainsolo]

Since the trilogy thread is still locked I’ll post here.
II thankfully doesn’t suffer as much as I in terms of problems but the same ones still rear their ugly head. The hdr grading tries to make certain things very bright with a harsh white light effect, the color is made to be more naturalistic in the tone which isn’t exactly accurate, there is some occasional noise and pixelization, the awful frozen grain pops up at times, DNR is used on some shots seemingly at random-most especially when Tom is talking to Frankie over cigars behind the gates which is horribly soft, some of the faces in shadows are noisy and I even spotted one or two brief spots of noise artifacts such as when Michael is entering Roth’s house through the screen door.
Once again all the subtitles are noisy and have jagged edges.

In short it’s not as bad as the original film but still none of this should have happened and it certainly isn’t a five star disc as many have claimed. The awful remix is still here but thankfully the lossy BD mono is carried over which is the best version of the original audio I’m aware of-but it isn’t perfect and it like I’s mono needs a proper hands off lossless restored presentation.

I get so distracted by the noise and frozen grain that the changes to the color palette become almost secondary! But it still seems to be a matter of revisionism and whether you like the 2008 BD look or not they were aiming for accuracy whereas here I don’t know if it was Zoetrope or Paramount pulling the tomfoolery strings. Someday I hope to see a properly preserved IB print of I and II just to see an example of the original presentation and have a better idea of the proper color argument.

[dallywhitty]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

DNR is used on some shots seemingly at random-most especially when Tom is talking to Frankie over cigars behind the gates which is horribly soft

Haven't watched the UHD yet but I saw the new DCP and I remember thinking that scene looked like shit.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Haven't watched the UHD yet but I saw the new DCP and I remember thinking that scene looked like shit.

It was awful!!! I literally paused the movie because it was completely crud from corner to corner!
If you toss the disc on and go to that scene it looks almost totally degrained or if it had been shot with massive diffusion.
Easily the worst looking shot in all of I and II.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by captainsolo

Since the trilogy thread is still locked I’ll post here.
II thankfully doesn’t suffer as much as I in terms of problems but the same ones still rear their ugly head. The hdr grading tries to make certain things very bright with a harsh white light effect, the color is made to be more naturalistic in the tone which isn’t exactly accurate, there is some occasional noise and pixelization, the awful frozen grain pops up at times, DNR is used on some shots seemingly at random-most especially when Tom is talking to Frankie over cigars behind the gates which is horribly soft, some of the faces in shadows are noisy and I even spotted one or two brief spots of noise artifacts such as when Michael is entering Roth’s house through the screen door.
Once again all the subtitles are noisy and have jagged edges.

In short it’s not as bad as the original film but still none of this should have happened and it certainly isn’t a five star disc as many have claimed. The awful remix is still here but thankfully the lossy BD mono is carried over which is the best version of the original audio I’m aware of-but it isn’t perfect and it like I’s mono needs a proper hands off lossless restored presentation.

I get so distracted by the noise and frozen grain that the changes to the color palette become almost secondary! But it still seems to be a matter of revisionism and whether you like the 2008 BD look or not they were aiming for accuracy whereas here I don’t know if it was Zoetrope or Paramount pulling the tomfoolery strings. Someday I hope to see a properly preserved IB print of I and II just to see an example of the original presentation and have a better idea of the proper color argument.

There are several interviews out there with Zoetrope archivist James Mockoski and Paramount's SVP of asset management Andrea Kalas re: the new Godfather restos. Ms Kalas doesn't like nasty grainses - or original audio, for that matter - and in one of the interviews she mentions how Mockoski kept pushing to retain more grain in the Godfathers. Clearly it's still not enough, but with Kalas in charge we're lucky we get that much.

[captainsolo]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There are several interviews out there with Zoetrope archivist James Mockoski and Paramount's SVP of asset management Andrea Kalas re: the new Godfather restos. Ms Kalas doesn't like nasty grainses - or original audio, for that matter - and in one of the interviews she mentions how Mockoski kept pushing to retain more grain in the Godfathers. Clearly it's still not enough, but with Kalas in charge we're lucky we get that much.

Geez that explains a lot. Both of those “dislikes” should be barred from any sort of asset management. So it was Paramount making demands. Until this day I never knew it was Don Paramount pulling the strings…

[K9 Mark V]

I've always been curious as to which release ('08 BD or 4K) was superior ever since I got my 4K box and had some second thoughts after selling my '08 copy of the first film. Last night, I had the opportunity to see a Technicolor print of Part II (noting it's technicolor since those prints aren't prone to the same fading many other stocks from the era are) and to answer the age old question of which of these is the most accurate...it's none of them...yet, also both of them.

In terms of grain structure, the '08 is spot on (most notably in the scene where Tom Hagen and Frank Pentangeli share a cigar towards the end of the film, which appears to have DNR in the 4K), or even better in some places depending on the surviving film elements of a certain shot. As for the color, and I'm speaking purely for the print/projection I saw since even that can vary, I would say it depends on which scene. Some scenes, like all the congressional scenes, are actually more accurate in the 4K version (now I should note that the print I saw did vary in white balance between reels so this could've been on one of the 'cooler' reels). Some scenes like the 'kiss of death' scene actually varied from shot to shot, so some shots looked like the '08 version, and some looked like a middle ground between the two editions.

Overall, I think it should be up to the viewer as to which version is superior as both of them have their pros and cons. I feel as though the '08 is actually too gold in some places (notably outdoors shots) and some brighter shots appear to have some detail blown out that weren't blown out on the Techincolor print (notably screenshot 20 on caps-a-holic. I don't remember the water appearing this blown out on the print). The 4K took some liberties with the grain management but the HDR grade really does compliment both the brighter and darker scenes of this film and skin tones do look a lot better in this version.

[captainsolo]

That's fantastic! I've always wanted so see an IB print of I and II. It's funny you posted this today as I'm finally putting out my trilogy review.

The problem with this new master is it could have been great AND perfect. The new scan had more usage of negative and better materials and benefitted from the difference in digital tools from 2007 to 2020. Unfortunately someone went to crazytown with processing and so you can see that underneath all the crud there was a good new scan there.

The 2008 BDs have according to RAH a point too much red. If we could get the DCPs as-is of the 2007 master it would be the best version of that and not have the issues of the 2008 discs being 2008 encodes.

The color on I and II specifically looks okay in some spots on the new master and pretty good in others but the difference is extreme most of the time compared to the previous master which was supervised and signed off of by everyone involved which the 2022 was not. The problem is exacerbated by the new HDR grading which frequently goes for a harsh white light throughout and is not something that should be there. The SDR version has this to a lesser effect but you can also see the bright areas baked into the master itself. This makes it almost more apparent in some ways.

II fares better overall than I because the issues are much less obvious and appear with less frequency. But they're still there. The shot with Tom and Frank smoking cigars at the prison gates is the worst shot in all three films on the 2022 master.

The 2008 BDs of the 2007 master while not perfect do reflect that project's intent and commitment to staying as-is and hands off at all times. They couldn't do as much technically but the mindset was an archival one and so some inherent issues were left as-is. On the 2022 they went all in on messing with everything.

[johnnyringo7]

In my opinion the transfer of The Godfather: Part II is very good during the 1st hour or hour and a half of the movie and then it has use of DNR in some scenes, the most obvious scene being the conversation between Tom and Frank. In any case, it is the best version available up to date.

[HeavyHitter]

I've not watched them lately (or on my current projector), but the last several times I watched the '08 Blu-rays the encoding was choking on the grain too badly for my taste. The grain often looked too digialitzed as a result. Although some DNR was applied to the UHD BDs with whatever encoding efforts, I preferred this aspect of the UHD BDs over the BDs. It was much less distracting to me and the lesser of two evils. I also felt the color was a wee bit too saturated (agreed about red point) to where I wonder how much was truly 100% intentional just like some crushing of the highlights on the '08 discs. The detail is often better on the UHD BD as well. At some point, I'll rewatch these but I preferred the UHD BDs over the original BDs on my initial viewing and handful of A/B comparisons of some scenes.

[dallywhitty]

This is currently being broadcast on Film Four and I'm baffled. Not only are the subtitles transcribed differently but the scene where Tom tells Michael about

[Show spoiler]Kay's "miscarriage"

is gone.

[milo bloom]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

This is currently being broadcast on Film Four and I'm baffled. Not only are the subtitles transcribed differently but the scene where Tom tells Michael about

[Show spoiler]Kay's "miscarriage"

is gone.

Is it the Saga version? There were some tweaks when they assembled that cut.

[Wu-tangFan1993]

Anyone else having a weird audio glitch on the part where Michael says "I know it was you Fredo"? Right after he says it the audio weirdly loops. THIS IS ON THE MONO MIX.

[spf781]

50th Anniversary Expanded Score arrives next week from LaLaLand Records:

https://lalalandrecords.com/the-godf...tion-2-cd-set/