Blu-ray vs dvd upscale

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Exy

I am interested in this debate as the same thought has often occured to me. I have upgraded a lot of my favourite films to Bluray and obviously in most cases notice the difference.

However, the grey area I have is with CGI Cartoons. I have Cars on Bluray and it looks great, however I have Ratatouille on DVD and it also looks great, I'm mean so incredibly good that I cannot possibly imagine it could look significantly better. My theory is that the upscalling on computer generated images must almost be as good to be Bluray quality.

I am going to have to rent or borrow a copy of Ratatoille to do a side by side comparison but for my money the DVD version is more than sufficient.

I thought so to. Until I saw the Cine-Explore option on the Cars Blu-Ray. The video clips from the movie aren't in HD for some reason, and you can see the differences immediately. That would be the same for Ratatouille. The DVD might look good, but the Blu-Ray still blows it out of the water.

[Exy]

Originally Posted by iDarren

I have a 92 inch screen and the difference is enormous. Either you have poor eyesight or there is something wrong with your setup.

I see little room for improvement in the upscalled DVD version of Ratatouille, is this just a question of scale?

[#Darren]

Originally Posted by Exy

I see little room for improvement in the upscalled DVD version of Ratatouille, is this just a question of scale?

I don't have any CGI films on DVD, but it seems to me that CGI films would upscale better than live action films.

[space-monkey]

Originally Posted by iDarren

I don't have any CGI films on DVD, but it seems to me that CGI films would upscale better than live action films.

They do, but they just cannot match the color brilliance of Blu-ray. CG cartoons is one area where BD truly shines.

[Exy]

Originally Posted by space-monkey

They do, but they just cannot match the color brilliance of Blu-ray. CG cartoons is one area where BD truly shines.

I agree, I have Wall-E, Cars, Horton Hears A Hoo, and both Ice Age films on Bluray and they look fanastic. But this morning I put on my DVD copy of Ratatouille for my son and thought to myself I must get this on Bluray, but when I saw the picture quality I just couldn't imagine it could look better, it looked as good as the Cars Bluray to me.

Obviously my PS3 is upsalling to 720i or more and I have a Panasonic 42" Plasma which must help. I will have to get a copy of Ratatouille on Bluray to compare but when the picture is as good as it seems on DVD I am loathed to spend the money which would be better put towards teh LOTR Trilogy!

Is it possible that Disney (SONY) encode their DVDs differently to make the most of upscalling?

[space-monkey]

Originally Posted by Exy

I agree, I have Wall-E, Cars, Horton Hears A Hoo, and both Ice Age films on Bluray and they look fanastic. But this morning I put on my DVD copy of Ratatouille for my son and thought to myself I must get this on Bluray, but when I saw the picture quality I just couldn't imagine it could look better, it looked as good as the Cars Bluray to me.

Obviously my PS3 is upsalling to 720i or more and I have a Panasonic 42" Plasma which must help. I will have to get a copy of Ratatouille on Bluray to compare but when the picture is as good as it seems on DVD I am loathed to spend the money which would be better put towards teh LOTR Trilogy!

Is it possible that Disney (SONY) encode their DVDs differently to make the most of upscalling?

Well, Disney probably encodes their everything to make the most of.....everything.

But, trust me, Ratatouille is a revelation on BD. The colors on the rats are a kind of muddy blue/gray/purple on DVD, but on BD, you can see it's a sort of oil-in-water effect, and the light bounces off of the fur beautifully.

Not to mention the beautiful Parisian backdrops deserve nothing less than HD.

[Wibbler]

Make sure your projector is calibrated correctly, try and get a copy of Video Essentials (blu ray) to set it up correctly.

Also, make sure your PS3 is not bitstreaming the audio to your receiver, if it is, you will not be getting the correct sound output from your discs.

You should definitely see the difference on such a huge screen...
(I'm assuming the room is correctly lit and no excess light is leaking in?)

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Exy

I agree, I have Wall-E, Cars, Horton Hears A Hoo, and both Ice Age films on Bluray and they look fanastic. But this morning I put on my DVD copy of Ratatouille for my son and thought to myself I must get this on Bluray, but when I saw the picture quality I just couldn't imagine it could look better, it looked as good as the Cars Bluray to me.

Obviously my PS3 is upsalling to 720i or more and I have a Panasonic 42" Plasma which must help. I will have to get a copy of Ratatouille on Bluray to compare but when the picture is as good as it seems on DVD I am loathed to spend the money which would be better put towards teh LOTR Trilogy!

Is it possible that Disney (SONY) encode their DVDs differently to make the most of upscalling?

The PS3 can upscale DVD up to 1080p.

If you have a 720 monitor it upscales it to 720, if you have 1080i or p monitor it upscales it to 1080i or p if you have the correct settings.

DVDs in the UK are 576 PAL not 480 NTSC like in the US, so the difference between a PAL DVD upscaled into a 720 monitor and a BD downscaled into 720 is less than the full difference between a BD and a DVD. A 1080p BD has the potential to look more than twice as sharp than a 720 image, you can sit 50% closer/have a monitor with a 50% larger screen.

What is your monitor?

In any case why don't you rent or borrow Ratatouille on BD if you can and see how the BD compares?

[DocTerror]

There are a number of factors beyond hardware and wiring that can greatly affect PQ on a projector. For example, improper focus will completely limit the depth of detail and clarity of the image. Getting perfect focus across the entire screen is not trivial. I can't fathom that you cannot see the difference in BD vs upscale on a 100"+ screen and suspect that some of the physical characteristics of your setup may require re-calibration.

To that effect make sure that your projector is properly focused onto the screen. I personally use a pair of binoculars and adjust the focus to a point where the sharpness of individual pixels is maximized. This can greatly improve the "HD experience".

Another important factor is the keystone adjustment. If the projected image is not a perfect rectangle (i.e. if it is some quadrilateral shape that doesn't have 90 degree angles) then you need a keystone adjustment. Do NOT use a digital keystone as this does not correct the physical problem. In an improperly keystoned system the distance of one region of the screen to the projector is longer/shorter than in other regions of the screen. This results in distorted geometry and the image will never be in focus everywhere. Should this be an issue google "physical keystone adjustment" to examine some of your options. If you are lucky your projector might even have some optical ketstoning controls built in to help you...

Good luck!!

[Joe Cain]

CG animation does upscale nicely, but upscaling doesn't magically create data & detail out of thin air that's not present in the source---I see details on the Ratatouille BD which I could not see at the cinema. Ratatouille is the only Pixar flick I've not seen on DVD, but since WALL•E, Cars, A Bug's Life, and the various shorts are all significantly improved on BD I feel comfortable assuming the same for the rat.

Ratatouille's director on the BD release (from James Plath's Q&A at DVDTown.com):

Originally Posted by Brad Bird

But, the quality of the Blu-ray disc? The guy who was the technical director on "The Incredibles" named Rick Sayre did "The Incredibles" DVD, and I think he pushed the technology to the wall. I'm really proud of that DVD, and the image quality and all that. He's totally against edge enhancement and all the tricks that you guys know about. And I was so blown away by what he did on "The Incredibles," even though he didn't work on "Ratatouille" I asked him to come in and do the "Rat" Blu-ray. And he pushed Blu-ray to the wall. I was flabbergasted when I saw how good the picture quality was on the Blu-ray. I had a tough time telling it from our 2K $100,000 projector, you know--full-on image, it is really amazing. The richness of its detail, the color accuracy--you know, if the film is going to reside out there after its theatrical run, I can't think of a better way for it to reside. If you get a nice player and a big screen, you will have an amazing experience on this film.

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

In any case why don't you rent or borrow Ratatouille on BD if you can and see how the BD compares?

What he said.

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by Exy

I agree, I have Wall-E, Cars, Horton Hears A Hoo, and both Ice Age films on Bluray and they look fanastic. But this morning I put on my DVD copy of Ratatouille for my son and thought to myself I must get this on Bluray, but when I saw the picture quality I just couldn't imagine it could look better, it looked as good as the Cars Bluray to me.

Obviously my PS3 is upsalling to 720i or more and I have a Panasonic 42" Plasma which must help. I will have to get a copy of Ratatouille on Bluray to compare but when the picture is as good as it seems on DVD I am loathed to spend the money which would be better put towards teh LOTR Trilogy!

Is it possible that Disney (SONY) encode their DVDs differently to make the most of upscalling?

Heheh yeah. but beware. LOTR Trilogy is New Line and there's not a single New Line title outhere worth having because they use heavely DNR masters (same as their DVD's). The Mask is horrible, Pan Labiryth too (compared to the Spanish version), etc etc...

[Valkyr47]

Originally Posted by ryoohki

Heheh yeah. but beware. LOTR Trilogy is New Line and there's not a single New Line title outhere worth having because they use heavely DNR masters (same as their DVD's). The Mask is horrible, Pan Labiryth too (compared to the Spanish version), etc etc...

Really? I am interested in picking up Pan's Labyrinth on Blu ray (to upgrade from my dvd version) because i love the film

the review on this site gave PQ a 4.5 out of 5

mentioned some grain removal/scrubbing but said the detail is still amazing and that its a great looking film

if it was that bad i would doubt a 4.5 for PQ would be awarded... especially because i own some blu's with a lower rating than that, and i think they look jawdropping

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by Valkyr47

Really? I am interested in picking up Pan's Labyrinth on Blu ray (to upgrade from my dvd version) because i love the film

the review on this site gave PQ a 4.5 out of 5

mentioned some grain removal/scrubbing but said the detail is still amazing and that its a great looking film

if it was that bad i would doubt a 4.5 for PQ would be awarded... especially because i own some blu's with a lower rating than that, and i think they look jawdropping

One must remember opionions are arbitrary, and DNR may not annoy you/affect your experience much, but it may be intollerable to others (possibly to the point wherby they are only noticing the 'digital distortions' and not the film itself).

[brettallica]

Originally Posted by DocTerror

There are a number of factors beyond hardware and wiring that can greatly affect PQ on a projector. For example, improper focus will completely limit the depth of detail and clarity of the image. Getting perfect focus across the entire screen is not trivial. I can't fathom that you cannot see the difference in BD vs upscale on a 100"+ screen and suspect that some of the physical characteristics of your setup may require re-calibration.

To that effect make sure that your projector is properly focused onto the screen. I personally use a pair of binoculars and adjust the focus to a point where the sharpness of individual pixels is maximized. This can greatly improve the "HD experience".

Another important factor is the keystone adjustment. If the projected image is not a perfect rectangle (i.e. if it is some quadrilateral shape that doesn't have 90 degree angles) then you need a keystone adjustment. Do NOT use a digital keystone as this does not correct the physical problem. In an improperly keystoned system the distance of one region of the screen to the projector is longer/shorter than in other regions of the screen. This results in distorted geometry and the image will never be in focus everywhere. Should this be an issue google "physical keystone adjustment" to examine some of your options. If you are lucky your projector might even have some optical ketstoning controls built in to help you...

Good luck!!

That's one hell of a first post! Welcome!

As far as the OP, yeah, check out what all the others have said and get back to us. There should be a pretty obvious difference between the PQ of an upscaled DVD and a Blu-ray on a screen as large as yours, so something must be wrong. If we were talking about a 30" screen, this observation of yours would make a lot more sense.

[Blaumann]

Originally Posted by Exy

I am interested in this debate as the same thought has often occured to me. I have upgraded a lot of my favourite films to Bluray and obviously in most cases notice the difference.

However, the grey area I have is with CGI Cartoons. I have Cars on Bluray and it looks great, however I have Ratatouille on DVD and it also looks great, I'm mean so incredibly good that I cannot possibly imagine it could look significantly better. My theory is that the upscalling on computer generated images must almost be as good to be Bluray quality.

I am going to have to rent or borrow a copy of Ratatoille to do a side by side comparison but for my money the DVD version is more than sufficient.

I'm using a 720p Marantz VP12S4 DLP front projector on a two meter wide screen. I have seen both the Ratatouille PAL DVD and BD on it. The DVD was upscaled by the PS3, my htpc and my Toshiba HD-E1 for testing purposes. While the upscaled DVD looks very nice, as soon as you compare it to the BD you'll notice the increased details and the better color reproduction. Going back to the DVD after watching it on Blu will probably change your opinion about Blu-ray and CGI films.

If you really want to be blown away by CGI, check out the Bug's Life Blu.

[space-monkey]

Regarding Pan's Labyrinth, I'm the resident hater of DNR around here, lately, but I didn't find it obtrusive on that disc, mainly because faces remain natural looking, and clothing detail is quite remarkable.

But, it's a bit too clean, that's true. My HDTV is only 42", so keep that in mind.

But it's recommended by me.

...


See? I can be reasonable.

[danielsan4610]

I've never understood when people say they can't tell a difference between an upscaled DVD vs. Blu-ray. 720x480 vs. 1920x1080 is a massive difference. If you can't see a huge difference in detail and clarity, it has to be a calibration or source issue.

[Adam.C]

Originally Posted by danielsan4610

I've never understood when people say they can't tell a difference between an upscaled DVD vs. Blu-ray. 720x480 vs. 1920x1080 is a massive difference. If you can't see a huge difference in detail and clarity, it has to be a calibration or source issue.

I agree completely. I play games on my computer at 1920x1200 and when I see my friends at 1280x1024 im like WTF. Such a huge difference!