Who called ISF to tune-up their TV's?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by William H Pratt

It will be a balance between what the ISF calibrator recommends vs what I can afford vs what I'm actually seeing in terms of degraded picture. In the end I'll try to stick to a recommended schedule. Time will tell.

No way to tell just by looking at it?

[VinnAY]

Originally Posted by William H Pratt

That's your decision & right. But if I'm going to spend thousands of dollars on a Pioneer Elite - I want it to look as PERFECT as possible! I can't accomplish this on my own thru endless tweaking. I want it done by an expect who has the expertise & equipment to make this HDTV as perfect as possible.

Don't take this as a knock PERSONALLY, but I find it laughable that after having spent thousands on a top of the line set (ANY set actually) and then you need a few hundred more to make it look good. It's ridiculous.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by VinnAY

Don't take this as a knock PERSONALLY, but I find it laughable that after having spent thousands on a top of the line set (ANY set actually) and then you need a few hundred more to make it look good. It's ridiculous.

There are Pied Pipers, walking the Earth, colorimeters in hand, ready to turn a $5,000 television that looks absolutely horrible from the instant it's purchased, into a wonderful window of razor sharp colors. It only adds 10% to the purchase price of your set. Do not ask what he does; it is a mystery, known only to the Elect.

Amazingly, none of these folks, who all appear to have secret knowledge of the set not owned even by the manufacturer, are not in a position to reveal how often these adjustments need to be made. They know one thing: until the check clears, your set will look terrible.

However, without them, owners of these sets are hopelessly unable to ever get the full value they paid. This goes for every set, from every manufacturer, that has ever been built, anywhere in the world.

Every set owner harbors this secret fear: What if my set has gone out of calibration? How will I know? It may look perfect - but what if it isn't? What if 6500 degrees Kelvin is really 6425? Am I losing the value I paid for?

But there is a website - open to the entire world - where you may summon another Piper, to come, with his meter, and reassure you that that for the low fee of $200 to $500, depending on the direction of the wind, everything will be dialed correctly again! Or maybe wasn't out in the first place...but what cost is too high for reassurance?

You find this laughable? If you were knocking down $500 a whack doing this stuff, maybe it would be, on your way to the bank...but after that? I don't think so.

[umr]

As someone who provides this service. I will say ISF calibration does not make sense for all products. I regularly turn down work on products that I believe do not result in sufficient value from this activity.

I find that in most cases where consumers have surround sound with a HDTV. The audio calibration brings more value to the system than video calibration does overall. When it comes to audio I rarely reject clients for the products they own because so few are so flawed or limited as to not warrant the service. The potential for serious setup errors with audio are also much greater than video and people are in general much less equipped to realize that the audio is completely wrong than they are with video. Most people can pretty quickly tell if the picture is hugely in error where they generally have no clue as to what their audio system is capable of or what an audio clip should sound like.

For products like the current Pioneer Elite displays an ISF calibration can take it from a very good display to something close to a professional monitor in quality. Once you have seen perfect you can then better determine its value. A proper calibration will also help solve problems caused by poor setup choices in sources as well.

I personally own the 151FD because of its excellent color accuracy post adjustment. Others can of course live with less.

[Suntory_Times]

Originally Posted by William H Pratt

That's your decision & right. But if I'm going to spend thousands of dollars on a Pioneer Elite - I want it to look as PERFECT as possible! I can't accomplish this on my own thru endless tweaking. I want it done by an expect who has the expertise & equipment to make this HDTV as perfect as possible.

I agree, I also got into this area through my interest of diy (I built my projector, so I fell compelled to also callibrate it myself).

In all honesty though I fell that if you're paying a few thousand dollars on a tv I would expect a quality callibration would be included.

[AVGuys Houston]

Originally Posted by ControlCAL

For Plasmas (and FP), if you have calibration done around 150 hours, you should have a touch up done at 1000-2000 hours.... Many Calibrators offer a touch-up service to their work.

Of course, some go the DIY route and purchased their own Meter to do the calibrations when needed/wanted....

We charge 1/2 of the original calibration price to do a follow-up call, IF anything has changed. IF the TV is still within calibrated specs, WE CHARGE NOTHING for the service call. Sometimes we make money, sometimes we don't. It's called "customer service".

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

But there is a website - open to the entire world - where you may summon another Piper, to come, with his meter, and reassure you that that for the low fee of $200 to $500, depending on the direction of the wind, everything will be dialed correctly again! Or maybe wasn't out in the first place...but what cost is too high for reassurance?

You find this laughable? If you were knocking down $500 a whack doing this stuff, maybe it would be, on your way to the bank...but after that? I don't think so.

My guess is that "Blu-dog" does not earn a living by giving or performing an service. If you don't think something is worth a price, don't try and convince everyone else out there that you know-it-all. You are allowed to have an opinion, and just like religion, you shouldn't try to get everyone to beleive the same way you do...unless you happen to be asking for 10% of their income every weekend.

[AVGuys Houston]

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times

I agree, I also got into this area through my interest of diy (I built my projector, so I fell compelled to also callibrate it myself).

In all honesty though I fell that if you're paying a few thousand dollars on a tv I would expect a quality callibration would be included.

And when WE sell a TV or projector, we include the calibration in the selling price.
If you are an internet shopper, looking for the lowest price, and you spent alot of time doing your homework to figure out what TV fits your budget and your room, then you might want to spend a little more to 'optimize' your new toy.

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

There are Pied Pipers, walking the Earth, colorimeters in hand, ready to turn a $5,000 television that looks absolutely horrible from the instant it's purchased, into a wonderful window of razor sharp colors. It only adds 10% to the purchase price of your set. Do not ask what he does; it is a mystery, known only to the Elect.

MOST sportscars come de-tuned, because the manufacturer does not want the liability of someone hurting themselves or others, with all of the performance available. Real car people know that they have to spend extra to get extra, and they don't "blame" the manufacturer of the vehicle for standard performance.
Same ideas can be applied to TVs. You have all read about what the electronics marketing people believe the human eye finds pleasing. And that has nothing to do with an accurate picture.
Now if you are happy with the picture out of the box, then YOU don't have to do anything but enjoy your purchase!
It's your hard-earned money to decide how you want to spend it.
However, if you did do your homework, and you want the 'best', then you have every right to get the best, and show off your new toy at its maximum capability.
So what's it gonna be?
You gonna take your TV on city streets...or to the Drag Strip...?
You happy with stock performance...or do you want more?
You gonna let someone with no knowledge of performance tell you you don't need to go faster?
Or maybe someone with no knowledge of calibrations, tell you you don't need a calibration.
It's your hard-earned money to decide how you want to spend it.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

MOST sportscars come de-tuned, because the manufacturer does not want the liability of someone hurting themselves or others, with all of the performance available. Real car people know that they have to spend extra to get extra, and they don't "blame" the manufacturer of the vehicle for standard performance.
Same ideas can be applied to TVs. You have all read about what the electronics marketing people believe the human eye finds pleasing. And that has nothing to do with an accurate picture.
Now if you are happy with the picture out of the box, then YOU don't have to do anything but enjoy your purchase!
It's your hard-earned money to decide how you want to spend it.
However, if you did do your homework, and you want the 'best', then you have every right to get the best, and show off your new toy at its maximum capability.
So what's it gonna be?
You gonna take your TV on city streets...or to the Drag Strip...?
You happy with stock performance...or do you want more?
You gonna let someone with no knowledge of performance tell you you don't need to go faster?
Or maybe someone with no knowledge of calibrations, tell you you don't need a calibration.
It's your hard-earned money to decide how you want to spend it.

Interesting.

I own a BMW M Roadster, a C5 Corvette, a Mercury Marauder, and a Nascar F150 truck, and through the kids, various other performance equipment.

Every one of them was delivered to me meeting manufacturer specifications. They are all bone stock, to this day. No Brembo brake kits, or Dinan or Eaton or whatever blowers, no chip modifications, nothing. They all run like scalded dogs, at the turn of the key. I maintain them - and most important, I know at what point scheduled service needs to be performed.

If something is out of whack with a subsystem, it's easily detectible.

Now, if I had bought my cars, and they didn't run right - somebody chipped it, to change the torque curve, and my mileage was terrible - I'd have had that problem fixed before delivery, by the dealer. At no charge to me. That's not the spec.

Why the heck would I immediately take it to the shop to figure out how I'd been screwed, then tell everybody that would hold still that they needed to do the same? The whole picture is sideways.

Anyway, my cars don't go to the track. I paid good money for them, for what they are, and each, I'm sure, is as good as the day I bought it.

The Roadster eats Boxsters for lunch, by the way.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

My guess is that "Blu-dog" does not earn a living by giving or performing an service. If you don't think something is worth a price, don't try and convince everyone else out there that you know-it-all. You are allowed to have an opinion, and just like religion, you shouldn't try to get everyone to beleive the same way you do...unless you happen to be asking for 10% of their income every weekend.

Take my advice, and don't do guesswork for a living.

If you were born any time after 1973, I've been working with electronics since before you showed up on this planet. My first gig; repairing and maintaining high powered radar and guidance systems for the military, on active duty. This included countless calibration tasks, on a daily basis.

I spent three years doing that; over a decade, at a famous research lab, designing and implementing high temperature control systems, where we made all types of electronic components; then ran my own computer firm for a decade; now, back in corporate America, I am responsible for the western half of my company's IT national service delivery. Several dozen engineers report to me. I, in turn, report to our customers.

I can just see myself trying to blow smoke at a client with this model.

Q: Does my stuff need calibrating?
A: I don't know, but if you don't pay $500, you'll never find out.

Q: How often does it need to be calibrated?
A: I don't know, but if you pay $500 per visit, you tell me how often you want to be sure you're doing just fine.

Q: Can I get my stuff to work just like a calibrated set, with tools I use myself?
A: Well, maybe, but only poor people look at things that way. Pay the $500 and join the elite group that can boast of, well, paying $500 to be part of the elite group.

Q: Which manufacturers actually calibrate their stuff at the factory?
A: Well, I don't know, so I come out and you pay $500 and we find out together.

Now, I don't try to get everyone to believe anything. In fact, I'm doing just the opposite. I'm trying to get real data from people who, like the very best religions, state opinions in the guise of facts.

I have never stated that calibration (a much misused term) is not beneficial; I had to "de-torch" my sets as soon as I plugged them in, and have used various tools to adjust them for a very nice picture.

I'm also sure that many people, who are technologically challenged, may have no idea how to go about what I consider to be a simple task, and may need additional help from service personnel to get it done.

But I never - ever - would tell every set owner, in an open forum, that without purchasing this service, they would not get the full enjoyment of their purchase, no matter how hard they tried to adjust it.

That's snake oil salesmanship, based on fear, uncertainty, and doubt, and comes about as close to a straight out hustle as one can get.

I note with interest that there are some ISF types who state very clearly that a set may not need their service. This is refreshing.

What I'd like to see, in an open forum like this, is some example - not the proselytizer's, "it just looks so much better after this is done" vague stuff, but real examples of what the Before and After settings were on a typical calibration task. What were the real Service Menu changes - not user settings; stuff a normal user couldn't do?

But I don't hear this. Guys who buy these services are all the same: "I don't know what the guy did, but when he was done, it looked completely different, and I bet your TV will look like crap too until you do it!"

By the way, the reason I'm extremely successful in business is that my customers know exactly what we charge, exactly what it costs us to do it, and exactly how it is done. I've had some customers since the late 1980's, my friend.

[ControlCAL]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

What I'd like to see, in an open forum like this, is some example - not the proselytizer's, "it just looks so much better after this is done" vague stuff, but real examples of what the Before and After settings were on a typical calibration task. What were the real Service Menu changes - not user settings; stuff a normal user couldn't do?

Several Professional Calibrators help owners tweak and even calibrate their displays. Of course, in most cases you won't see specific settings posted from one of their customer's calibration.

There is a Forum where Tips, Hints, equipment/software/pattern sources recommenadations and calibration workflows for specific models are given. Even helping individual calibration sessions. That's what CalibrationForums.com and DIYCalibration.com is all about.

There are some that post those settings (with their calibration reports) including SM settings and the ISFccc Interface settings HERE (though that specific Forum example is for Pioneers).

Many DIYer's even hire a Professional since many Professional Calibrators take the time to explain each step and answer questions during the calibration session. That benefit alone can be worth the price of Professional Calibration to the DIYer....

[AVGuys Houston]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Interesting.

I own a BMW M Roadster, a C5 Corvette, a Mercury Marauder, and a Nascar F150 truck, and through the kids, various other performance equipment.

Every one of them was delivered to me meeting manufacturer specifications. They are all bone stock, to this day. No Brembo brake kits, or Dinan or Eaton or whatever blowers, no chip modifications, nothing. They all run like scalded dogs, at the turn of the key. I maintain them - and most important, I know at what point scheduled service needs to be performed.

Well then, your not our client, you don't need, or want anything better than stock.

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Now, if I had bought my cars, and they didn't run right - somebody chipped it, to change the torque curve, and my mileage was terrible - I'd have had that problem fixed before delivery, by the dealer. At no charge to me. That's not the spec.

Agreed!
But TV's don't run right, because the manufacturer "chipped it, to change the torque curve, and made the mileage was terrible" so they can sell more on the brightly lit warehouse showroom floor.
But you can't take your TV back to the dealer and demand that they fix the color accuracy. The TV company says it is within spec, straight from the marketing dept. Engineering knows it's not right, but they didn't get the final decision before manufacturing built it.

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Anyway, my cars don't go to the track. I paid good money for them, for what they are, and each, I'm sure, is as good as the day I bought it.

No pissin match here!
You don't want optimized performance.
You don't go to the track.
Yet without a piece of test equipment at the dealership, you cannot tell if any of your cars are within 10% of the spec from the day you bought them. Can you feel the difference between 300 and 270 HP?
How about 12 seconds or 13.2 seconds?

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

However, without them, owners of these sets are hopelessly unable to ever get the full value they paid. This goes for every set, from every manufacturer, that has ever been built, anywhere in the world.

Every set owner harbors this secret fear: What if my set has gone out of calibration? How will I know? It may look perfect - but what if it isn't? What if 6500 degrees Kelvin is really 6425? Am I losing the value I paid for?

Without some form of measurement, no one really knows what they are getting or how close to the original specifications they are at.
Do you frequent the drag racing forums and brag about how your cars don't need to be tuned up for 'better' performance?
Everyone has there own form of excess...
I'll bet you like fine wines or good cigars or something that's not worth what you pay for them, but somehow you can justify it.
Let the others enjoy talkin about toys, and don't rain on their parade, or challenge your mechanics ability to earn a living from your trips to the dealership to keep your car in 'spec'

By the way...how often do you change the oil in your cars? Maybe even when it doesn't need it... or do you have a machine that can tell when the viscosity has changed or when the particles per millileter are past specifications?

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

Well then, your not our client, you don't need, or want anything better than stock.

Now, here's the funny thing.

My C5's engine had a full tank of premium fuel run through it, at the factory, at wide open throttle.

Top up (it's a convertible), bone stock, it does 170 miles per hour.

I've never run a full tank of gas through my Corvette, with my foot to the floor.

And I've never had it up to 170 miles per hour.

Do you think, since I've never done these things, that I wasted my money?

[Coyotes]

Pioneer believes in the benefits of calibration to the extent they dedicate space in the Service Menu for that exact purpose.
This allows a qualified calibrator with the correct software to enter the SM and fine tune the display for:

- the equipment and the cables comprising the signal path
- the environment the display is in
- with the ISF Day and Night modes, tailored settings for specific viewing circumstances
- compensate for the slight wear-in of the chassis electronics and phosphors

As a manufacturer, Pioneer (nor any other manufacturer) cannot anticipate any of the above.
To use your car analogies, on a race weekend, F1 teams scrub both wet and dry tires, in the event the weather is unpredictable. Back in the 90's, teams and fuel suppliers went so far as to "brew" special fuels for the specific track and region of the world the races were held.

You could say, the cars were "calibrated" to their environment.

If you wanted a Pioneer product that told you when it started to deviate, it would cost 6-7 times the price of a Pro-151, come with a dedicated probe, and require something more than a "drivers license" to utilize properly.

Blu Dog's comments are reflective of those that have only cursory knowledge of a subject, analogize it in a convoluted way, and proceed to attempt to sway others.

The ISF has worked WITH manufacturers for the past 15 years resulting in the ability for someone with more money than brains to acquire a $5,000 Pioneer, plug it in, and have the result of all those years of calibration reports provide an engineered solution to 90% of the ills that plague a consumer television. If someone finds 90% of the image quality attainable suitable for their purposes...then bon appetite. If you want Mesa Grill instead of Ponderosa, get it calibrated.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

But TV's don't run right, because the manufacturer "chipped it, to change the torque curve, and made the mileage was terrible" so they can sell more on the brightly lit warehouse showroom floor.

Are you talking about the goofy user settings? I really dislike religious debates; are you claiming that the baseline service menu settings, from every manufacturer, are tweaked?

Or are you referring to the usual "Vivid, Pro, Normal" settings?

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

But you can't take your TV back to the dealer and demand that they fix the color accuracy. The TV company says it is within spec, straight from the marketing dept. Engineering knows it's not right, but they didn't get the final decision before manufacturing built it.

Man, you need to name names. I have two levels of skepticism here.

1. The "marketing department" has a separate spec from the "engineering dept". I'm going to assume that ISF calibration is using some set of specifications, directly from that manufacturer's engineering department. So yet a third group - the "manufacturing department" - is using bogus specifications to set up components? If so, where does ISF get the "real" settings from?
2. At what point do a bunch of guys writing brochures and hanging out with the girls at trade shows have the slightest clue what a monitor setting is? Engineers to this, man; we both know that. So ISF has a standard that is not the same as, say, Samsung or Pioneer or Sony's engineers? Very interesting.

[ControlCAL]

Originally Posted by Coyotes

The ISF has worked WITH manufacturers for the past 15 years

great and accurate point, one that is normally not posted...

[AussieCal]

Hi folks,

Vinnay seems to question the whole Cal thing. And Blu-Dog seems to imply Calibrators are laughing all the way to the bank.

I can't speak for all but here are a few "inside facts".

I have spent more then 40K on Audio and Video calibration equipment plus the cost of flying around the world to get trained and accredited. (We didn't run these courses in Australia back then). I did this originally because I couldn't find anyone near me who really knew what they were talking about. Now its a business and I am still catching up on the investment.

I wanted good gear to help me deliver great results to clients. I tell my customers that if they don't like the results I give them then they don't pay me.

But you only have to see the difference to know it is worth it.

But people must realise this: A TV, ANY TV (and I include projectors in this) iare delivered "off spec". (yes some are much better than others). We take a Pre cal shot and record the data and then calibrate the unit and take a Post Cal shot. The difference both on the display and on the data as VERY significant.

I understand people thinking that a new TV should be perfect but they just aren't.

Finally there is a standard (D65, which by the way is not an exact 6500K) but it is relatively hard to attain, harder with poor instruments especially at low light levels. There are also limits within which it is effectively impossible to visually see any difference and if you are within 3-4 points on the DeltaE then you are doing well. We aim for 1 (2 max)

Last but not least Calibration (good calibration) is not easy especially if you are going to check all sources. We take about 3 hrs to do a job and some jobs can be mentally exhausting.

So is it worth it? Yes....If you want to see things the way the director intended. If you want your display to look natural.

Is it pricey? Not if you think it is worth it!

My projector globe is aging, and we sat down to watch a movie last night and my wife said "that picture doesn't look right". Hallelujah. So everyone can see the difference once they have seen a great quality image. Unfortunately we simply cannot go to the local cinema now as their image is so bad.

Finally: It seems a shame to me to invest for example in something like the very best Pioneer panel and never see it truly perform. If you are happy doing this, save some money buy a cheaper panel and leave it on "Dynamic" :-)

A good professional calibrator has invested a lot, worked hard to learn his trade and cares about the result and there are "others" the good ones get to be known by reputation. Trust the good ones and you will not be dissappointed and you will be surprised by the results.

Last but not least ISF and ISF ccc.

The main and most important thing here is that ISFccc allows the calibrator to enter a menu option that can't be messed with. This means the customer can always go back to the calibrated settings with no fear that they have been altered. It takes a bit more work, more gear and more investment for the Pioneer panels to allow your calibrator to do this. But it is again worth the peace of mind.

On the Pio panels the terrific ControlCal software also gives us access to a 9 step gamma setting allowing us to get the calibration that much closer. Something you can't do by other means.

Hope this answers some questions.


Rgds


A

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

No pissin match here!
You don't want optimized performance.
You don't go to the track.
Yet without a piece of test equipment at the dealership, you cannot tell if any of your cars are within 10% of the spec from the day you bought them. Can you feel the difference between 300 and 270 HP?
How about 12 seconds or 13.2 seconds?

Under what conditions?

I can tell you that when I'm at 7,000 feet climbing Walker Pass, I don't get the same grunt I do climbing out of San Simeon into Big Sur. Until my next quarterly visit for service on the roadsters, no, I couldn't give you a digital number on performance degradation - but I could damn sure tell you if I'd lost 10% of power output.

Funny you should ask about that. I got the Marauder because I couldn't get another non-supercharged DOHC mill like I had in my Mark VIII LSC - 300 HP. I tried another Mark VIII - same year, but not the LSC. 280 HP. Yes, I could tell the difference, hey, anybody could.

And 1.2 seconds in a quarter mile? HUGE number. Yes, I could tell.

So, anyway, how long does, say, the average Pioneer plasma have to go between calibrations before it's call it 10% out of baseline adjustment from known good?

[ControlCAL]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

where does ISF get the "real" settings from?

The settings come from the calibration.. The settings can differ between Calibrators (even the same Calibrator with subsequent calibrations) as there can be different settings to achieve the target colortemp D65 and gamut targets even for the same source(s) and environment.

ISF Professionals don't dictate/create standards but follow/target the industry ones.

A second (and subsequent) calibration(s) can still achieve the same targets but have different settings....

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

Without some form of measurement, no one really knows what they are getting or how close to the original specifications they are at.
Do you frequent the drag racing forums and brag about how your cars don't need to be tuned up for 'better' performance?

I actually spend more time with my clients, trying to get them to understand terms like "life cycle" and "MTBF".

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

Everyone has there own form of excess...
I'll bet you like fine wines or good cigars or something that's not worth what you pay for them, but somehow you can justify it.

It's clear you don't know me; I have never in my life tried to justify excess. That's a fool's errand.

I also don't bother arguing with people who say that a fine wine, or a good cigar, is not "worth" [fill in the blank].

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

Let the others enjoy talkin about toys, and don't rain on their parade, or challenge your mechanics ability to earn a living from your trips to the dealership to keep your car in 'spec'

My life, and the lives of others, are in the hands of that mechanic.

I don't take my car there so I can tell somebody else their car is a piece of crap if they don't do what I do. I have more important reasons than that.

Originally Posted by AVGuys Houston

By the way...how often do you change the oil in your cars? Maybe even when it doesn't need it... or do you have a machine that can tell when the viscosity has changed or when the particles per millileter are past specifications?

In both the BMW and the Corvette, there are particulate monitoring systems that perform that chore. In the rest of the vehicles, it's either a mileage counter or my wife, watching the mileage records.

I don't change oil when it doesn't need it.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by Coyotes

Blu Dog's comments are reflective of those that have only cursory knowledge of a subject, analogize it in a convoluted way, and proceed to attempt to sway others.

The ISF has worked WITH manufacturers for the past 15 years resulting in the ability for someone with more money than brains to acquire a $5,000 Pioneer, plug it in, and have the result of all those years of calibration reports provide an engineered solution to 90% of the ills that plague a consumer television. If someone finds 90% of the image quality attainable suitable for their purposes...then bon appetite. If you want Mesa Grill instead of Ponderosa, get it calibrated.

Well, I guess I hit a nerve.

Maybe you missed the main course on this debate a couple of weeks back. I actually mentioned the entire environmental portion of calibration, which seemed to stump some of the "true believers" out there who are under the impression that there's only one way to do a calibration, and dadgummit, you're staring at a piece of junk until they do to yours what they did to mine, by golly.

Anyway, I think anyone providing a service is the one to do the swaying, my friend. At this point, precious little other than very vague testimonials, from clearly unschooled and nontechnical users, is what I'm hearing about this topic.

As someone with a more than passing knowledge of instrumentation, my next question is, how often? While you did mention F1 teams, I'm sure most folks don't need a pit crew standing by to mod their units.

And, I agree, it might be a bit much to ask to include a $200 colorimeter to a $5,000 television set, to get some baseline numbers back to a $150 processor to tell you when your set has just gone straight to hell in a handbasket.