Look at these ads

[Fozziwig]

Originally Posted by Greenmatiz2

I fully disagree. I wrote/produced TV commercials for nearly a decade (in another life).

The general consumer buying at Best Buy is dumb, and they think price.

They will see that it is a high definition movie player, is far less expensive than BR, and that they get several disks for buying a few with the player. They will see a wall of BR disks, and HD-DVD disks and think:

"Oh, the store must not have those movies in the blue boxes in the white boxes yet, but they will soon. They're probably sold out of the white boxes because the players cost half as much."

The consumer will buy the HD-DVD player.

I think many of us expected Sony not to counter with low-priced players (no, going from $1,200 to $600 does not equal low-priced players), and many of us feared they would lose the war due to hubris. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that we all feared from the get-go, whether we admit it or not.

Now is the time for BR to get off of its big blue butt and do something before they lose this war. That Best Buy ad hardly points out the "advantages of blu-ray".

It is a tragedy.

And I fully disagree with you so we have that much in common.

You believe that HD DVD will win on price alone.

I believe that the overwhelming studio support of Blu-ray will be the hammer blow that will crush HD DVD - and leave lots of people with overpriced upscaling DVD players.

So, presumably your pessimistic outlook is that so many HD DVD players will be sold that Fox, Disney et al will cave in and release on an inferior and less secure format. That's HD DVD fanboi talk, right there!

[ClaytonMG]

I haven't seen anyone mention that Best Buy has their Matrix Trilogy artwork reversed of what it is supposed to be. The Ultimate Matrix Trilogy is the more expensive one with 5 discs, but they list that for cheaper.

[ClaytonMG]

Also, on the main DVD page for Best Buy, they have both Pirate movies there, and you get $10 off when you buy both...

[Greenmatiz2]

No, Fozz...

The movie studios will notice a larger penetration of HD-DVD players, and view all of those players as potential sales.

No studio can resist money that long. Then they will release their movies on HD-DVD (probably with the exception of Sony).

That is what I see could happen, unless Sony gets off of it's big hubaristic blue ass and lowers its prices on players.

Thank-you for illustrating what I mean by "Sony Hubris" in regards to loyalty between movie studios, and available titles.

And hanging your hopes on BD+ as a non-crackable format is even more hubris. Call it fanboyism or not (I don't even own HD-DVD), we'd better pray there's SOMEBODY in the Sony marketing camp who is willing to do something before it's too late.

[HDTV1080P]

If Sony and other BLU-RAY companies decide they need to lower prices they can. Lowering prices to far can result in problems. For example if Sony were to lower the BDP-S300 list price in October from $599 to $499 then Toshiba most likely will lower its prices to $199. Then if Sony lowers prices to $399 then Toshiba lowers prices to $99. Once the HD-DVD players get below $100 several millions will be sold to people that don’t even own a HDTV TV yet. People will be buying them as standard DVD players while others will play select HDTV HD-DVD movies. The smart thing to do is for Disney and Fox to remain exclusive to BLU-RAY so that they do not feed the format war. Hopefully Disney and Fox will be smart.
The other problem with Toshiba and Sony having a price war is some BLU-RAY consumer electronics manufactories could stop making BLU-RAY players if they are not profitable. If the prices fall to fast then maybe only Sony and Toshiba will be the ones left making players. Not too many companies want to sale players below cost and lose millions of dollars.
In the future when HD-DVD players are selling for $50 and BLU-RAY players are selling for $199 then Sony if they needed to can play their last card which would be a bold move. Sony pictures could stop releasing movies in the DVD format and only release in BLU-RAY. Fox and Disney could do the same. If one remembers studios before did a similar thing with the VHS format. They stopped releasing movies in VHS and started releasing in the DVD format only. This caused consumers that only had VHS machines to purchase DVD players. Today no major studio releases on VHS and no company makes a standalone VHS machine. Only a few combo DVD/VHS machines are made now, no consumer standalone VHS machines are in production.

[LeoneFan]

Originally Posted by Greenmatiz2

No, Fozz...

The movie studios will notice a larger penetration of HD-DVD players, and view all of those players as potential sales.

No studio can resist money that long. Then they will release their movies on HD-DVD (probably with the exception of Sony).

That is what I see could happen, unless Sony gets off of it's big hubaristic blue ass and lowers its prices on players.

Thank-you for illustrating what I mean by "Sony Hubris" in regards to loyalty between movie studios, and available titles.

And hanging your hopes on BD+ as a non-crackable format is even more hubris. Call it fanboyism or not (I don't even own HD-DVD), we'd better pray there's SOMEBODY in the Sony marketing camp who is willing to do something before it's too late.

You don't own an HDDVD player? I swear by reading your recent posts it sounds like you own 2 of them. Jeez, get a hold of youself. Don't you think Sony would love to put a $300 Blu-ray player out there and end this nonesense quickly? Of course they do, but then they will alienate and piss off all the other Blu-ray backers who are trying to compete in player sales and turn a profit. Toshiba can give players away because they are the only ones producing them so they can't step on any other companies' toes (RCA doesn't count). Make no mistake because Fox, Disney, and Sony will never release on HDDVD. The player prices will converge to a point where both Blu-ray and HDDVD will be priced similarly. When the pricing advantage is gone, all those people who bought a cheap HDDVD player will have to add a Blu-ray player to get the movies they are missing out on.

[Greenmatiz2]

Personally, I think the player/price issue is more tied to the PS3 than anything. As long as they keep standalone BR players priced high, they will -- in theory -- sell more PS3s, and have more potential for gaming sales to boot.

I believe that is why player prices are hovering around the PS3 level -- but not below.

As soon as the players drop below the PS3 price by $100 or so, the PS3's "cheapest BR Player and game machine" line becomes, "BR Player that makes the game machine more expensive."

It will be interesting to see how long Sony can keep the player prices up.

And as for the argument that other companies won't build BR players if prices for BR players drop too much -- I guess that's why Denon, Marantz, etc., don't make $1,000 DVD players, eh? (they do, and have for a long time).

[jubaiweaponx]

HDDVD gives me gas...

[LeoneFan]

Originally Posted by Greenmatiz2

And as for the argument that other companies won't build BR players if prices for BR players drop too much -- I guess that's why Denon, Marantz, etc., don't make $1,000 DVD players, eh? (they do, and have for a long time).

Yeah and how many of those do they sell? I rest my case.

[Steverhcp02]

Hmmmm, i was just at best buy pickign up the new wilco record and they had the same player advertised here for 799 on a small display, the only HD display, for 499 with BD movies scattered around. The circuit City near me has a full wall of HD movies, 3/4 BD and 1/4 HD DVD with their only in store display showcasing Blu Ray.

Why would my BB in store have that player for 500 and here it shows 800?

[Greenmatiz2]

Originally Posted by LeoneFan

Yeah and how many of those do they sell? I rest my case.

Denon, Marantz, Krell, whatever your flavor may be -- they sell high-end equipment at high prices to a certain niche audience. They have done so for years, and will continue to do so.

The argument that companies like these will not make a high-end BR or HD-DVD player because they can't make money when everyone is buying $200 players is ridiculous. We've had $49 DVD players for some time now, and the high-end companies still sell enough players to enthusiasts to merit newer (and improved) models.

There is a lot more to build quality than just a great picture and sound. When people buy an expensive unit, they are picky about a whole lot of other things: finish, weight from quality casings, this or that brand DACs, etc.

[movies3]

its funny because in both of my news paper ads for BB and CC they show POTC the movie but dont say which format and they just show the POTC 360 game... and this is front page on both...hmmm its gonna be a long format war

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by Greenmatiz2

I fully disagree. The Best Buy and CompUSA ads are a tragedy. They absolutely scare the general consumer away from buying BR anytime soon. Just look at those high prices -- ON SALE, BUT STILL 2 to 3 TIMES HIGHER THAN HD-DVD players.

I wrote/produced TV commercials for nearly a decade (in another life). The general consumer buying at Best Buy is dumb, and they think price.

They will see that it is a high definition movie player, is far less expensive than BR, and that they get several disks for buying a few with the player. They will see a wall of BR disks, and HD-DVD disks and think:

"Oh, the store must not have those movies in the blue boxes in the white boxes yet, but they will soon. They're probably sold out of the white boxes because the players cost half as much."

The consumer will buy the HD-DVD player.

I think many of us expected Sony not to counter with low-priced players (no, going from $1,200 to $600 does not equal low-priced players), and many of us feared they would lose the war due to hubris. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that we all feared from the get-go, whether we admit it or not.

Now is the time for BR to get off of its big blue butt and do something before they lose this war.

Pimping a few Pirates disks as being "exclusive" is not going to do it.


Hubris.

That Best Buy ad hardly points out the "advantages of blu-ray".

It is a tragedy.

Fully Agree with you here.

I really don't care about the formats anymore - I only bought Pirates 1 and 2 and I would prefer BD win (this coming from some one that was HD-DVD and wanted BD to loose).

The people here are NOT your AVERAGE consumer. We know about 100% more than a person that walks into Best Buy (moms, dads, grandparents, uninformed kids). The average consumer does not know what HD-DVD or BD is, nor will they know what 1080i or 1080p is and that pros/cons of each. They won't know that HD-DVD's capacity is capped at 30 gig and that BD is 50 gig.

No. They rely on the salesperson. The sales people are the ones that tell them what they should purchase. The sales persons own opinion and beleifs are then transfered to the consumer. Couple that with price - and so on.

Those ads - beleive it or not - are a killer for BD as was pointed out above in the quote. You can't sit there and say that BD will win if this pricing scheme continues. - 799.99 vs 299.00 ? People don't see anything other than price. Throw in freebies - it makes the pot even sweeter!

You all need to think about this war as if you were a dumb consumer that didn't know much. Think that way and you will see where BD is headed.

The format wars fate is far from sealed. The BD consortium can counter - but the question is - will they? They have until Christmas to make their move. This year is the fighting year. Place no bets until first quarter in 08. That is the best time to see just where the war is headed.

JMO.

[movies3]

Originally Posted by DrinkMore

Fully Agree with you here.

I really don't care about the formats anymore - I only bought Pirates 1 and 2 and I would prefer BD win (this coming from some one that was HD-DVD and wanted BD to loose).

The people here are NOT your AVERAGE consumer. We know about 100% more than a person that walks into Best Buy (moms, dads, grandparents, uninformed kids). The average consumer does not know what HD-DVD or BD is, nor will they know what 1080i or 1080p is and that pros/cons of each. They won't know that HD-DVD's capacity is capped at 30 gig and that BD is 50 gig.

No. They rely on the salesperson. The sales people are the ones that tell them what they should purchase. The sales persons own opinion and beleifs are then transfered to the consumer. Couple that with price - and so on.

Those ads - beleive it or not - are a killer for BD as was pointed out above in the quote. You can't sit there and say that BD will win if this pricing scheme continues. - 799.99 vs 299.00 ? People don't see anything other than price. Throw in freebies - it makes the pot even sweeter!

You all need to think about this war as if you were a dumb consumer that didn't know much. Think that way and you will see where BD is headed.

The format wars fate is far from sealed. The BD consortium can counter - but the question is - will they? They have until Christmas to make their move. This year is the fighting year. Place no bets until first quarter in 08. That is the best time to see just where the war is headed.

JMO.

i agree with u! not everyone knows as much as we do! glad i have the forums here to help me on that

[Spankey]

I really don't care about the formats anymore - I only bought Pirates 1 and 2 and I would prefer BD win (this coming from some one that was HD-DVD and wanted BD to loose).

If you don't care then why are you in a blu-ray forum? Why would you have wanted blu-ray to "lose"? Nothing in life comes free. The only reason HD-DVD players are cheap is because that is their only shot at gaining market share. I don't care if a player is $10, if there are no movies to play on it, I'm not buying. HD-DVD can't match the specs of Blu-ray and never will.

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by sltmag

If you don't care then why are you in a blu-ray forum? Why would you have wanted blu-ray to "lose"? Nothing in life comes free. The only reason HD-DVD players are cheap is because that is their only shot at gaining market share. I don't care if a player is $10, if there are no movies to play on it, I'm not buying. HD-DVD can't match the specs of Blu-ray and never will.

I was mis-informed and I had hatred for Sony.

Of course that's why HD-DVD players are cheap. That's why they do it. The fact still remains - the most adopted format is the winner. If HD-DVD keeps under cutting BD, they will win as long as it is the format that the consumer adopts - if cost continues to plumit, that will be the winner.

Simple economics.

[Spankey]

Simple economics would say that disc sales which are heavily in blu-ray's favor will decide the fate of either format. If you sell $500 player for $100 you are losing money. The bleeding can only go on for so long.

[DrinkMore]

Originally Posted by sltmag

Simple economics would say that disc sales which are heavily in blu-ray's favor will decide the fate of either format. If you sell $500 player for $100 you are losing money. The bleeding can only go on for so long.

Incorrect. You can drop prices on disks all day long. Hell, you can give them away.

But, if the device needed to play them is 800 dollars - not many are going to jump on that boat.

In the other corner, that device is only 300 bux - that might change some minds.


Im not dissing blu-ray and I sure as hell don't want hd-dvd. however don't let your pride blind side you.

[HDTV1080P]

It would be so funny if Toshiba by some miracle was able to sale 20 million cheap quality HD-DVD players for under $100. Then the HD-DVD camp would be in shock if Disney, Fox, and Sony Pictures said we are only releasing in BLU-RAY and not even releasing movies in the DVD format anymore.

** The studios will decide what format survives the format war. When the studios stopped releasing on VHS the VHS format died **. The studios can kill both the HD-DVD format and DVD format if the want too.

[WriteSimply]

With this ad, we have a war of perception. The perception is how we look at the ad on this thread vs how the Best Buy stores in your area look.

Originally Posted by Steverhcp02

Hmmmm, i was just at best buy pickign up the new wilco record and they had the same player advertised here for 799 on a small display, the only HD display, for 499 with BD movies scattered around. The circuit City near me has a full wall of HD movies, 3/4 BD and 1/4 HD DVD with their only in store display showcasing Blu Ray.

Why would my BB in store have that player for 500 and here it shows 800?

Steve here has visited his Best Buy store and sees the above. So even if he received the BB mailer, when he goes to the store and sees the expanded display of BD than HD-DVD titles, he might think twice. After all, if he was just an average consumer and is going for a cheap player, a cheap upconverting DVD player can be had for less than US$100.

The most that the BB mailer can do is get people to see what the fuss is all about. And if they happen to visit on Tuesday (May 22 207), then they'd really be upset that the POTC BDs or any Disney, Sony and Fox titles won't be playable on the cheaper HD-DVD players.

If however you're like Greenmatiz2 that has no BB stores or online site, you'd think that it's the end of the world as far as advertising is concerned. NOTE: not an attack on Greenmatiz2.

Basically if you're not within the same country, you can't really gauge the mailer/flyer's effectiveness.

Originally Posted by Greenmatiz2

Denon, Marantz, Krell, whatever your flavor may be -- they sell high-end equipment at high prices to a certain niche audience. They have done so for years, and will continue to do so.

The argument that companies like these will not make a high-end BR or HD-DVD player because they can't make money when everyone is buying $200 players is ridiculous. We've had $49 DVD players for some time now, and the high-end companies still sell enough players to enthusiasts to merit newer (and improved) models.

Denon, Marantz and Krell ONLY got their feet wet when Sony, Pioneer and other CEs had sold thousands of DVD players within the first three years of DVD's introduction. The players prices were well over US$500 for those three years. Compare that with the price of the Toshiba in the BB mailer. And this is AFTER the discount.

The reason that high-end DVD players still sell inspite of cheap players is because the DVD market is mature enough to support both levels of consumers.

There is a lot more to build quality than just a great picture and sound. When people buy an expensive unit, they are picky about a whole lot of other things: finish, weight from quality casings, this or that brand DACs, etc.

Don't forget that some people buy expensive units just so that they can have trophy machines and not something they can fully understand or utilize.

The thing about the Toshiba HD-DVD players are these:

1) Too expensive as a DVD player. Most J6P will give it a miss for cheaper DVD players.

2) If J6P DO want to pay more for a DVD player, they'd go with other brands. In the same regard, I'm sure that HD-DVD supporters and fanatics wish that they could buy a Sony HD-DVDP1000.

Greenmatiz2: I think you missed this piece of news, which might allay your fears a bit. Sony Widens Playstation 3 Marketing

Sony widens PlayStation 3 marketing
New ads will promote family games, Blu-ray functionality
By Susanne Ault 5/4/2007

MAY 4 | Sony is reaching out to Mom, Dad and the kids in a bid to widen the appeal of its PlayStation 3.

Facing stiff competition from Nintendo’s family-friendly Wii, Sony will be heavily campaigning around the upcoming release of several all-ages games, most notably karaoke title SingStar and community building title LittleBigPlanet, streeting this fall and early 2008, respectively. Both are exclusive to the PlayStation platform, with earlier SingStar titles already available for the PS2.

Also, Sony is preparing to hype the PS3 as the most comprehensive Blu-ray Disc player available on the market. Currently, PS3 is the only device that features a Web-enabled Blu-ray player, although no studio has released a Blu-ray title boasting Web-based content.

“Our goal is to definitely widen our target base and not be so niche,” said Kim Nguyen, PS3 manager. “We are not all about shoot ’em-up bloody games. There are friendly games.”

She added, “This is high-def entertainment messaging, where we have our exclusive software titles, and we are delivering a very powerful machine. On the movie side, you have beautiful movies that you can watch on the PS3. We are going for that larger audience.”

During the U.S. PS3 bow last fall, Sony mainly emphasized the product’s superior gaming technology. Nintendo instead talked up the Wii’s ease of use. Wii ads featured various family members enjoying the system’s unique wireless controllers.

With PS3’s SingStar, players sing popular songs via a microphone attachment and are scored based on their similarity to the track’s original performer. On LittleBigPlanet, players create their own customized, virtual world and can collaborate with other PS3 users.

Nguyen said a TV, print and online blitz will push these various talking points during the back half of the year, leading toward the fourth quarter. She declined to give a specific launch date.

Wii has sold 5.84 million systems worldwide through March, Nintendo officials said last month. Launched near the same time last year, PS3 has sold 3 million units worldwide, Sony confirmed.

Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities, thinks marketing should boost PS3. He agrees that PS3 can improve upon how it singles out its Blu-ray functionality.

“What they want to do is position the consumer to start wanting the PS3 in time for Christmas,” said Pachter, figuring advertising might start as early as June. Plus, Sony “needs to educate consumers on why they need a Blu-ray player.”

Nguyen said PS3 supply has increased at retail and noted that between February and March of this year, PS3 was the only next-generation console to show a sales gain.

“The Wii was down 22%, and the Xbox 360 was down 12%, and we were up 2%,” said Nguyen, citing U.S. statistics from NPD Funworld.

However, PS3 still lagged in March sales, moving 130,000 units, compared to Wii’s 260,000 units sold and Xbox 360’s 200,000 units sold.

“The timing is definitely right [for renewed PS3 promotion], as the manufacturing issues have been ironed out,” Nguyen said. “Retailers are getting an influx of supply, so it makes sense to ramp up marketing to coincide with that.”

Through this summer, PlayStation will continue to sponsor various events designed to spread the word about PS3. In mid-March through May 5, the PlayStation AM JAM tour, starring various professional skate boarders, spread across eight U.S. cities.

PlayStation Patrol trucks, created specifically last year for people to sample the PS3, continue to tour the U.S through the year.

Also, Sony has partnered with the San Francisco Giants to promote the baseball PS3 title MLB ’07 The Show. Prior to Giants taking turns at bat, clips of the videogame will run on the team’s new high-definition scoreboard.

Additional reporting by George T. Chronis

This campaign will not only attract new families to buying PS3s as a gaming and movie console, but it will also get existing owners who have not used the BD playback capability of the console. All of this leads to increasing sales of BD movie sales and rentals.


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