SPECTRE Review Thread

[SethRex]

Originally Posted by RageATL

While Hinx was a bad ass, he really served no purpose in the story at all other than to set up action sequences.




While we've seen stranger things in previous Bond films, I would have to think he died after being thrown from a moving train, so I wouldn't be so sure he'll be back.

[Show spoiler]Not only was he thrown off a train, the rope that pulled him out was wrapped around his neck, so I can imagine it could have been snapped.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Except that that

[Show spoiler]Blofeld could be lying about controlling

all that came before it. He may be aware of it due to his extensive intelligence gathering and lying to Bond that he had anything to do with it.

And while I didn't like Hinx either (he didn't have the humor of Oddjob), that train fight was a homage to the

[Show spoiler]fight between Bond and Robert Shaw's character in "From Russia with Love".

Did that fight change anything in that plot other than indicating that Bond had lots of enemies and confrontations? Same here.

Ummmm... No. The fight between Bond and Grant in From Russia With Love was ALL about the plot. Grant is on that train to intercept Bond, get the Lektor, and kill Bond as revenge for killing Dr. No. This is all under orders from SPECTRE and Rosa Klebb. The entire SPECTRE plot is laid out just before this fight and shows Bond is actually one step ahead of Grant, despite appearances to the contrary. The plot absolutely hangs on these events and the fight is undoubtedly more than just "indicating that Bond had lots of enemies and confrontations."

If SPECTRE (the film) wants to homage that fight, that's great, but simply paying superficial physical homage to something without bothering to come up with any actual plot motivation driving it in the way that the original fight did makes the homage with Hinx simply a hollow copycat.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Cliff

If SPECTRE (the film) wants to homage that fight, that's great, but simply paying superficial physical homage to something without bothering to come up with any actual plot motivation driving it in the way that the original fight did makes the homage with Hinx simply a hollow copycat.

One could argue the fight served the love angle.

Like it's the catalyst for their love.

Like it's the worst catalyst ever, but still.

Like if Hinx actually did kill Bond Oberhauser would've been pissed and probably killed Hinx.

Like Hinx being on that train at all technically goes against any kind of story logic.

Just when I thought this movie couldn't get anymore nonsensical I stumble on this. Ugh.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Cliff

Sure there is... I've gotten that Hinx has the autonomy to go after Bond as he sees fit

Since we see him go after Bond, either he has the autonomy (or doesn't care if he doesn't, maybe he is just a loose cannon), or has been instructed to follow Bond by Blofeld. Since we never see the latter, while it is possible, it's an unnecessary assumption. You seem to be arguing that Hinx *wouldn't* have the autonomy to chase Bond. Based on what? Spectre may be an organisation where the branches have a great deal of autonomy.

Originally Posted by Cliff

and also that he's just lowly new SPECTRE muscle that the leader of SPECTRE wouldn't even know the name of.

Well that's exactly what we see in the movie.

[Show spoiler]Hinx is out the door straight after Bond, we never see Hinx and Blofeld communicating. Are we supposed to imagine some great back story between the two? I guess you can, but it's not necessary.

Originally Posted by Cliff

The fact that SPECTRE both doesn't know they're coming and ALSO sends a car to retrieve them is, sorry, another inconsistency.

If you were to start wandering around in the general area of a US military base in a three piece suit in the middle of nowhere, I'm sure someone would be coming out pretty quickly to ask you what you were doing. And as I said, the car doesn't arrive straight away. Did you stop to think why they showed Bond and Swann waiting in that building?

Originally Posted by Cliff

And even if it plays out exactly as you say:

[Show spoiler]Hinx tracks Bond and Swan to the train, is dispatched for convenience, Bond and Swan show up at station, SPECTRE suddenly realizes they're there and sends the Rolls Royce, it makes SPECTRE and Blofeld the most ineffectual evil organization in the world. Lots of "tentacles" that don't know what the others are doing,

You must be joking. Have you ever worked for a large corporate? You can be working on the same project and have teams that know nothing about what the other is doing. One organisation I worked for, a colleague would describe parts of it using that very word - "tentacles" - long before Spectre ever came out.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Since we see him go after Bond, either he has the autonomy (or doesn't care if he doesn't, maybe he is just a loose cannon), or has been instructed to follow Bond by Blofeld. Since we never see the latter, while it is possible, it's an unnecessary assumption. You seem to be arguing that Hinx *wouldn't* have the autonomy to chase Bond. Based on what? Spectre may be an organisation where the branches have a great deal of autonomy.

Well that's exactly what we see in the movie.

[Show spoiler]Hinx is out the door straight after Bond, we never see Hinx and Blofeld communicating. Are we supposed to imagine some great back story between the two? I guess you can, but it's not necessary.

If you were to start wandering around in the general area of a US military base in a three piece suit in the middle of nowhere, I'm sure someone would be coming out pretty quickly to ask you what you were doing. And as I said, the car doesn't arrive straight away. Did you stop to think why they showed Bond and Swann waiting in that building?



You must be joking. Have you ever worked for a large corporate? You can be working on the same project and have teams that know nothing about what the other is doing. One organisation I worked for, a colleague would describe parts of it using that very word - "tentacles" - long before Spectre ever came out.

Except:

[Show spoiler]
A. Bond is Blofields weird obsession. Everything he does is to get back at bond. He's a pretty craptastic villain since apparently he can monitor everything bond does, but can't send a car out early to meet him.

B. Hinx is obviously in contact with Blofield, since he gave him the tape to Bond and Mr Whites confrontation.

C. Hinx also apparently waited a few hours before assaulting Bond and Swann on the train, waiting till they had time to talk, press their clothes, get dressed, talk a bit, and order dinner.

D. There is no reason for Hinx to do his own thing, since he knows he'd be killed for it. Blofield is portrayed as the leader of the most dangerous organization on the planet. Hinx wouldn't be able to just run away. (Although the fact that Spectre is pretty terrible at everything suggests he actually could.)

E. Spectre is a terrorist conglomerate. Everyone knows what everyone is doing. It's not some random tech company. If they don't know what the people they control are doing, then an organization focused on controlling all knowledge seems uh.... Brain-dead stupid.

F. To really just drive it back home, Blofield cares about Bond. He claims to be the architect of bonds pain and fate. His entire reason for doing anything is revenge against bond for... I don't know, fishing with his dad or something? Anyways, Bond is Blofields motivator. He'd be PISSED that Hinx just took him out, since it seems like Blofield wanted bond to come to the base.

G. Most of Blofields actions are hard to read, since the writing for him was atrocious, and Waltz gave the laziest performance of his career. I have no idea if he was serious half the time or not, why he was doing any of what he was doing, or HOW he even managed to create Spectre in the first place. All of his scenes belonged in an Austin powers film. I mean really, sitting at the table and whispering to people?

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by lemonski

Since we see him go after Bond, either he has the autonomy (or doesn't care if he doesn't, maybe he is just a loose cannon), or has been instructed to follow Bond by Blofeld. Since we never see the latter, while it is possible, it's an unnecessary assumption. You seem to be arguing that Hinx *wouldn't* have the autonomy to chase Bond. Based on what? Spectre may be an organisation where the branches have a great deal of autonomy.

Yes... because evil organizations do much better when their branches are allowed to "think outside the box" and really bring new perspectives to the table. SPECTRE isn't Google. They provoke loyalty to the cause, not creativity and free thinking.

Originally Posted by lemonski

If you were to start wandering around in the general area of a US military base in a three piece suit in the middle of nowhere, I'm sure someone would be coming out pretty quickly to ask you what you were doing. And as I said, the car doesn't arrive straight away. Did you stop to think why they showed Bond and Swann waiting in that building?

Yes... because they have eyes everywhere (except apparently on their own members) because...

Originally Posted by lemonski

You must be joking. Have you ever worked for a large corporate? You can be working on the same project and have teams that know nothing about what the other is doing. One organisation I worked for, a colleague would describe parts of it using that very word - "tentacles" - long before Spectre ever came out.

You can't be serious!

[Show spoiler]Blofeld and

SPECTRE's whole plot has to do with having eyes everywhere and you're telling me I'm supposed to believe they're too big an organization to even know what the guy across the table, their HIRED MUSCLE, is up to? Maybe SPECTRE was simply misunderstood and the whole point of Nine Eyes was just to use it internally so they could keep track of their own members.

There's suspension of disbelief and then there is utter bludgeoning. Do you really not see how ridiculous your defense of these flaws is? At least half of your "defenses" have actually made me see/find more issues than I originally did. The more you've attempted to defend it, the more I've found to dislike about it. Probably not your intention.

[Dreamliner330]

I bought all the previous Bond films on Blu-ray when they were released and finished the Casino Royale/Quantum of Solace/Skyfall over the weekend and saw Spectre today...

Spectre was horrible. The tone was just way off. With the same director as Skyfall and the same film editor from all the Nolan flicks, I don't understand how this movie could be so bad. I think if they dumped the whole

[Show spoiler]"C"

storyline and focused on

[Show spoiler]Blofeld

it would have been a much tighter story. Then the cheese from nowhere...what the heck was with that

[Show spoiler]airbag

?

I really do hope Craig does another, someone convinces him to not go out like this. Although the way Spectre ends, that could be it.

They really need to quit digging into the past and move F O R W A R D!

A final note. A lot of people don't like Quantum but if you watch it immediately after Casnio Royale it plays well as a really long 4-hour movie. I do put Spectre as my least favorite Craig flick. Maybe a second viewing when it hits Blu-ray will change my mind...

[sandman slim]

Saw it Saturday, loved it, but... I question the whole

[Show spoiler]Blofeld "Khan reveal"

and after reading that Entertainment Weekly article that suggested the ending was a

[Show spoiler]Brazil-style fakeout

... the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

[ZoetMB]

WARNING: SPOILERS BELOW
Brazil style fakeout? I think people are reading much too much into the ending. Bond is not imagining he quit.

Besides, if you know the novels, you know that Bond composed a resignation letter.

It doesn't really matter, we know he comes back. It could be revenge, it could be because the villain escapes or it could simply be because M asks.

[jayman3]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

I bought all the previous Bond films on Blu-ray when they were released and finished the Casino Royale/Quantum of Solace/Skyfall over the weekend and saw Spectre today...

Spectre was horrible. The tone was just way off. With the same director as Skyfall and the same film editor from all the Nolan flicks, I don't understand how this movie could be so bad. I think if they dumped the whole

[Show spoiler]"C"

storyline and focused on

[Show spoiler]Blofeld

it would have been a much tighter story. Then the cheese from nowhere...what the heck was with that

[Show spoiler]airbag

?

I really do hope Craig does another, someone convinces him to not go out like this. Although the way Spectre ends, that could be it.

They really need to quit digging into the past and move F O R W A R D!

A final note. A lot of people don't like Quantum but if you watch it immediately after Casnio Royale it plays well as a really long 4-hour movie. I do put Spectre as my least favorite Craig flick. Maybe a second viewing when it hits Blu-ray will change my mind...

Can I say that I actually enjoyed

[Show spoiler]the C subplot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it finally gave the B-Team (M, Q, and Moneypenny) something to do for once.

Can't say it was better than the main plot with Bond, but whenever his arc became boring, I liked the eventual switch to the subplot.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by jayman3

Can I say that I actually enjoyed

[Show spoiler]the C subplot. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it finally gave the B-Team (M, Q, and Moneypenny) something to do for once.

Can't say it was better than the main plot with Bond, but whenever his arc became boring, I liked the eventual switch to the subplot.

But if they fixed the main arc bore it wouldn't have needed a cut away.

I've always liked that Bond was about Bond and not a team movie. Much better that way IMO; as evidenced by Skyfall. M was essentially just the person who needed protecting (which Bond failed at and nobody addressed that, lol).

[stvn1974]

Loved it. I even liked it more than Skyfall which I also love. I don't get the complaints about it being slow in spots since I found Skyfall to be slower. I also liked the song even though it is not my kind of music but it fit the opening credits. Can't wait for the BD.

[jayman3]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

But if they fixed the main arc bore it wouldn't have needed a cut away.

I've always liked that Bond was about Bond and not a team movie. Much better that way IMO; as evidenced by Skyfall. M was essentially just the person who needed protecting (which Bond failed at and nobody addressed that, lol).

That is true. For some reason everything after

[Show spoiler]Morocco with Blofeld's facility destroyed

felt like an entirely different movie. I do feel that this movie should have been trimmed up a bit for tighter focus as mentioned. Other than that, I did have a good time watching Spectre; just didn't enjoy it as much like I did with Skyfall.

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by jayman3

That is true. For some reason everything after

[Show spoiler]Morocco with Blofeld's facility destroyed

felt like an entirely different movie. I do feel that this movie should have been trimmed up a bit for tighter focus as mentioned. Other than that, I did have a good time watching Spectre; just didn't enjoy it as much like I did with Skyfall.

Perhaps with my expectations in check I'll like it better on BD.

[jayman3]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner330

Perhaps with my expectations in check I'll like it better on BD.

Perhaps. For me, it was up and down. I enjoyed some moments and not so much during other moments. Like you, I'll have to re-watch it on BD.


Pierce Brosnan's thoughts on Spectre:

“I was looking forward to it enormously. I thought it was too long. The story was kind of weak — it could have been condensed. It kind of went on too long. It really did. ‘Spectre’ is neither fish nor fowl. It’s neither Bond nor Bourne. Am I in a Bond movie? Not in a Bond movie? Daniel, in the fourth go-round, has ownership of it. He had a nice looseness to him.”
Read more at http://www.hitfix.com/news/heres-wha...qJrTyB6iH5B.99

[Dreamliner330]

Originally Posted by jayman3

Perhaps. For me, it was up and down. I enjoyed some moments and not so much during other moments. Like you, I'll have to re-watch it on BD.


Pierce Brosnan's thoughts on Spectre:

I like Brosnan. Seems like a cool dude. He's had some good flicks and was a good Bond for that era. Honestly though, I think if he was given Skyfall he could have pulled it off just as well.

[StingingVelvet]

I agree with Brosnan for sure. Is this a Bond move? Bourne movie? Neither? It's so frustrating, and yes overlong, stuffed with useless scenes.

I do wonder if I'll like it more a second-go, that definitely happens sometimes.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by Cliff

Yes... because evil organizations do much better when their branches are allowed to "think outside the box" and really bring new perspectives to the table. SPECTRE isn't Google. They provoke loyalty to the cause, not creativity and free thinking.

There you go, there's the source of your problem. You've assumed you how Spectre works based on how you think it should work, instead of what you see on screen. And "killing anyone who gets in the way of our plans" is hardly "thinking outside the box". Dozens of characters from Oddjob to Jaws have been doing it, I don't see why you think Hinx doesn't follow the same pattern.

Originally Posted by Cliff

You can't be serious!

[Show spoiler]Blofeld and

SPECTRE's whole plot has to do with having eyes everywhere and you're telling me I'm supposed to believe they're too big an organization to even know what the guy across the table, their HIRED MUSCLE, is up to?

[Show spoiler]9 Eyes is not in operation at that point, so they don't have eyes everywhere.

They must be fairly large, if Spectre encompassed LeChiffre and Silva's operations, as well as Quantum. How would Blofeld know what any individual member of any of those branches were doing at any one time? And if he really wanted Bond for himself, wouldn't he have instructed LeChiffe, Silva and Green to tell their men not to try to kill him? Yet they did. Your theory doesn't stack up.

Originally Posted by Cliff

The more you've attempted to defend it, the more I've found to dislike about it. Probably not your intention.

If you don't like it that's your bad luck, it's not my problem.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I do wonder if I'll like it more a second-go, that definitely happens sometimes.

Seems a whole lot of people do, when they have their expectations set accordingly and they actually know what kind of film they're getting. Me, I'm leaning more and more towards the opposite. The more I think back on Spectre, the more I dislike it. Still a good film, that I'll stand by, but I keep coming back more and more to the film's problems rather than its positives, which is a bit of a shame...

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by lemonski

There you go, there's the source of your problem. You've assumed you how Spectre works based on how you think it should work, instead of what you see on screen. And "killing anyone who gets in the way of our plans" is hardly "thinking outside the box". Dozens of characters from Oddjob to Jaws have been doing it, I don't see why you think Hinx doesn't follow the same pattern.

[Show spoiler]9 Eyes is not in operation at that point, so they don't have eyes everywhere.

They must be fairly large, if Spectre encompassed LeChiffre and Silva's operations, as well as Quantum. How would Blofeld know what any individual member of any of those branches were doing at any one time? And if he really wanted Bond for himself, wouldn't he have instructed LeChiffe, Silva and Green to tell their men not to try to kill him? Yet they did. Your theory doesn't stack up.

If you don't like it that's your bad luck, it's not my problem.

What we see on screen is literally what I described on the last page. A ruthless organization that has eyes everywhere, with a leader who has a stupid obsession with bond. They have entire scenes devoted to the fact that they are everywhere. How would they not keep track of Hinx who's literal FIRST DUTY was to go after bond. If you think they wouldn't be keeping track of him, then you seriously misunderstand the point of a terrorist organization. They don't let people wander off an do their own thing.

Not only that, like I said before, WHERE DID HINX EVEN COME FROM? They were on the train for hours! He just what... Decided to wait for dinner?