Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

What I am saying is, down the line, the fully uncut version will be sold at a premium for absolutely no other reason than greed IMO.

You've effectively described director's cuts which have a long tradition. It has nothing to do with the distribution method. Certainly many people have purchased a theatrical cut only to lament a director's cut released later.

But with digital, if you've purchased certain movies in iTunes in the past, quite a few have gained alternate cuts at no cost. There's a thread dedicated to it. These movies have been updated and the purchaser gained new utility for free. Even more movies have gained extras for free. Again, something that doesn't happen if you own a disc.

This trend should continue. With so many people moving to subscription services they need to improve the value proposition of owning vs. subscribing. Improving existing releases comes at a cost but the alternative might be to surrender the home-sales market and they certainly don't want that. Physical sales continue to crash and you can't improve discs already on shelves. Just mark them down, get rid of them, and try to sell a whole new version to the folks who already own the old version.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Nobody buys DVD's on eBay, even Blu-rays are hard to sell. 4K is the Hot Ticket, especially when Bundled with Blu-ray. Your Streaming setup must be very poor with slow Copper ISP and a Visio HDTV, because of the bad Audio and PQ. I mainly watch 4K and HDX Digital Movies Early Releases, and I think the Audio and PQ is Outstanding. I do have FTTH with 75Mbps Symmetrical. I watched Fist Fight last night, and tonight I'm watching Life.

I'm having a hard time selling my Blu-ray collection as a lot. I'm using Craig's List. $1400 for 304 Blu-ray titles in 225 SKu's. 2 of the SKu's are complete TV shows and the rest are movies. I switched to iTunes for my movie purchases. However, sometimes I miss the better image quality of a blu-ray on some movies, usually the some of the older ones from the 80's and earlier. When I watched a few movies in iTunes, I was thinking to myself that the blu-ray version can't be this soft looking. I also compared the image quality ofa Blu-ray title called The Grapes of Wrath with the same movie in my iTunes account and I noticed a noticeable sharper image on the Blu-ray version (about 10-15% sharper) and a bit smoother panning (due to the 24p support on my XBox One). I don't know if I should just keep my Blu-ray collection and only use digital for Netflix subscription, redeeming iTunes codes, but not purchasing directly from iTunes or any other digital service, and if it's a movie I really want to own just buy the Blu-ray if it's on Blu-ray. I'm not sure if I can continue to stick to digital for purchases, for movies that is, but there are about 3 more movies I want to have in my iTunes collection so it feels a bit more complete.

[SarahS]

Originally Posted by PCFan

I'm having a hard time selling my Blu-ray collection as a lot. I'm using Craig's List. $1400 for 304 Blu-ray titles in 225 SKu's. 2 of the SKu's are complete TV shows and the rest are movies. I switched to iTunes for my movie purchases. However, sometimes I miss the better image quality of a blu-ray on some movies, usually the some of the older ones from the 80's and earlier. When I watched a few movies in iTunes, I was thinking to myself that the blu-ray version can't be this soft looking. I also compared the image quality ofa Blu-ray title called The Grapes of Wrath with the same movie in my iTunes account and I noticed a noticeable sharper image on the Blu-ray version (about 10-15% sharper) and a bit smoother panning (due to the 24p support on my XBox One). I don't know if I should just keep my Blu-ray collection and only use digital for Netflix subscription, redeeming iTunes codes, but not purchasing directly from iTunes or any other digital service, and if it's a movie I really want to own just buy the Blu-ray if it's on Blu-ray. I'm not sure if I can continue to stick to digital for purchases, for movies that is, but there are about 3 more movies I want to have in my iTunes collection so it feels a bit more complete.

I notice no degraded picture quality on my 75 inch Samsung. Now there is some drop off in sound quality but then I never really crank up my 7.1 sound that loud anyway as the wife is always yelling turn it down!. So for me it's all good.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Nobody buys DVD's on eBay, even Blu-rays are hard to sell. 4K is the Hot Ticket, especially when Bundled with Blu-ray. Your Streaming setup must be very poor with slow Copper ISP and a Visio HDTV, because of the bad Audio and PQ. I mainly watch 4K and HDX Digital Movies Early Releases, and I think the Audio and PQ is Outstanding. I do have FTTH with 75Mbps Symmetrical. I watched Fist Fight last night, and tonight I'm watching Life.

Originally Posted by PCFan

I'm having a hard time selling my Blu-ray collection as a lot. I'm using Craig's List. $1400 for 304 Blu-ray titles in 225 SKu's. 2 of the SKu's are complete TV shows and the rest are movies. I switched to iTunes for my movie purchases. However, sometimes I miss the better image quality of a blu-ray on some movies, usually the some of the older ones from the 80's and earlier. When I watched a few movies in iTunes, I was thinking to myself that the blu-ray version can't be this soft looking. I also compared the image quality ofa Blu-ray title called The Grapes of Wrath with the same movie in my iTunes account and I noticed a noticeable sharper image on the Blu-ray version (about 10-15% sharper) and a bit smoother panning (due to the 24p support on my XBox One). I don't know if I should just keep my Blu-ray collection and only use digital for Netflix subscription, redeeming iTunes codes, but not purchasing directly from iTunes or any other digital service, and if it's a movie I really want to own just buy the Blu-ray if it's on Blu-ray. I'm not sure if I can continue to stick to digital for purchases, for movies that is, but there are about 3 more movies I want to have in my iTunes collection so it feels a bit more complete.

Even though my preferred viewing is Digital HD I still have some Discs. I think your main fault is going with iTunes, Digital HD has so many other Providers that are much better. Vudu is the Solid High Standard, but lately I have also enjoyed watching Sony Ultra especially their 4K. So I don't miss Disc at all, and with my Sony UHD TV I don't need any other Players or STB's.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by veritas

As far as downsides for owning digital it looks like we are having another randomly vanishing digital copies on vudu week. I need to make a excel page of all of my movie titles on vudu because this happens way to often. As far as I can tell I am missing iron man 2, Thor, The Avengers, toy story and Cinderella. It looks like all of the Disney coaster disc digital copies just went from hd to sd on dma and vanished all together on vudu.


I have never had a blu ray transform from day to day into a DVD but that seems to be par for the course for digital sometimes.

Well score another plus for Vudu, my Iron Man 3 is back to HDX with SD too. I happen to have good records, and all I had to do was provide this information. I still had a copy of the Code I Redeemed back in 2015. Vudu is Outstanding in my book!

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Even though my preferred viewing is Digital HD I still have some Discs. I think your main fault is going with iTunes, Digital HD has so many other Providers that are much better. Vudu is the Solid High Standard, but lately I have also enjoyed watching Sony Ultra especially their 4K. So I don't miss Disc at all, and with my Sony UHD TV I don't need any other Players or STB's.

I used Vudu extensively before switching to iTunes and buying an Apple TV about 2 months ago. iTunes works better with my internet connection and I prefer how movie individualize if you buy a bundle from iTunes whereas with Vudu, the movies are still in a bundle. The Apple TV caches the movie using my full internet speed while I'm watching it and that might be a big part of why iTunes on the Apple TV is more was more reliable streaming for me than Vudu on a few different devices. I've experience occasional image quality drops when streaming through Vudu and sometimes a movie I streamed through Vudu would play with only 3 bars HDX and not hit 4 bars HDX until I restart streaming the movie. Maybe it's the Vudu servers at peak hours or maybe it's my internet connection? Also Vudu would kick out on me while streaming on my XBox One and my Sony TV's Vudu app. Also I always have the option to download my iTunes purchases to my computer in case my internet get's too unreliable, but I prefer not because I don't want to hear my computer running while watching a movie. I just have a better experience with an Apple TV in conjunction with iTunes than Vudu on different devices I tried out.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by PCFan

I'm having a hard time selling my Blu-ray collection as a lot. I'm using Craig's List. $1400 for 304 Blu-ray titles in 225 SKu's.

Well the bolded parts are a HUGE part of your problem right there. If you want to move them, you will have to piece them out. I can see trying to bundle movies together that are sequels or otherwise somehow related, but otherwise trying to sell all of that as a lot is a fools errand.

If you've seen my posts in this thread, you'll notice that I'm very much in favor of physical media and really don't care for digital purchases. But that being said, I could never see myself buying a lot such as this. The odds of even most, let alone every title in the lot being something that I would even want to own is extremely unlikely.

And while the average price-per-title is reasonable, that's still a lot of cash to drop all at once. That becomes a pretty big purchase. And while you may well have taken great care of your collection, the end buyer has nothing but your word to go on with that. I would be very concerned about the conditon of the discs if buying a huge lot like that, and have to try and check them all to make sure they actually work (keep in mind this would be from anyone trying to sell such a lot, not just you).

You need to consider breaking up that lot if you really want to move your collection.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by dynamo of eternia

well the bolded parts are a huge part of your problem right there. If you want to move them, you will have to piece them out. I can see trying to bundle movies together that are sequels or otherwise somehow related, but otherwise trying to sell all of that as a lot is a fools errand.

If you've seen my posts in this thread, you'll notice that i'm very much in favor of physical media and really don't care for digital purchases. But that being said, i could never see myself buying a lot such as this. The odds of even most, let alone every title in the lot being something that i would even want to own is extremely unlikely.

And while the average price-per-title is reasonable, that's still a lot of cash to drop all at once. That becomes a pretty big purchase. And while you may well have taken great care of your collection, the end buyer has nothing but your word to go on with that. I would be very concerned about the conditon of the discs if buying a huge lot like that, and have to try and check them all to make sure they actually work (keep in mind this would be from anyone trying to sell such a lot, not just you).

You need to consider breaking up that lot if you really want to move your collection.

$1400 obo

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well score another plus for Vudu, my Iron Man 3 is back to HDX with SD too. I happen to have good records, and all I had to do was provide this information. I still had a copy of the Code I Redeemed back in 2015. Vudu is Outstanding in my book!

Well for one thing he was saying that the problem seems to be with titles that included a physical disc for redeeming digital copies. I believe Iron Man 3 was a title that came out after that pretty much stopped and it just went to a code to redeem online.

He's saying that those movies are disappearing entirely.

And frankly I even find your example concerning. Losing the HDX version that you already had , even temporarily, is unacceptable in my opinion.

The idea of having to keep meticulous tabs on not only every title in your collection, but what version (i.e. SD, HDX, etc.) that you had to make sure that you still have that, is insane. And that's basically what you have to do to make sure that you get something like this straightened out.

Plus what happens if you didn't have the slip with the code anymore? I'm sure plenty of people have tossed those out after redeeming them. Would there be any recourse if you didn't have that anymore?

It's nice that apparently they were ale to resolve it quickly since you did have the code, but I still wouldn't praise them for fixing something that never should have broke in the first place.

As much as I am in favor of physical media, since if it's well taken care of, it will last a long time, and cannot be taken away - sometimes returning/exchanging any kind of physical product through the vendor that you purchased it from is necessary because of the occasional damaged or defective items. That unfortunately is to be expected on occasion.

But part of the whole point of digital distribution is supposed to me the removal of the "problems" of physical media. With it being separated from a single physical source, you shouldn't have to worry about having a problem with it akin to buying a Blu-ray/DVD combo pack in which the Blu-ray is defective, but the DVD works. That's essentially what happened here. And if you didn't have that code handy, fixing the issue may not have gone as smoothly as it did since you did have it.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by PCFan

$1400 obo

Even still, the point remains the same. I would still have the same concerns buying a lot such as that even if you or another would-be seller were to accept half of that price for the same lot in full.

[Vor4]

Originally Posted by PCFan

I'm having a hard time selling my Blu-ray collection as a lot. I'm using Craig's List. $1400 for 304 Blu-ray titles in 225 SKu's

You'll have a hard time selling your blu-ray collection on Craigslist, even on eBay as well. A lot of people have different tastes in movies. Try selling your bluray collection to a second hand movie store or to a pawn shop. At most you'll get $325 for your collection.

[master gandhi]

You didn't really have to do anything for the DMA/VUDU situation to be resolved. If you were impatient and contacted them, I'm sure they tried to resolve it on a case by case basis, but the issue was corrected by today without contacting them. I never once contacted DMA or VUDU and my movies are back to HDX.

[Count Orlok]

I prefer physical, but lately, I've been using the codes inside. The discs look and sound better and I don't have to worry about the internet going ****house during playback.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Steedeel continues to astound. First it was that we will all be watching movies on smart watches in the future, then it was that they would remove movies, now it's they will not remove the movies, but replace with edited versions

Nope, I am saying the edited version will be cheaper with the proper cut sold for more. Guess what families go for. It could be by default. Extra exposure to ANY edited film is a very very bad thing.

I can see PG and 12a films doable but once you get to 15 or 18 cerats) you then have to ask, why the heck are parents sitting with their kids watching that material? Adult themes are called that for a reason. It's already being hinted that all certificates could come under this Cleanversion thing.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Zu Nim

You've effectively described director's cuts which have a long tradition. It has nothing to do with the distribution method. Certainly many people have purchased a theatrical cut only to lament a director's cut released later.

But with digital, if you've purchased certain movies in iTunes in the past, quite a few have gained alternate cuts at no cost. There's a thread dedicated to it. These movies have been updated and the purchaser gained new utility for free. Even more movies have gained extras for free. Again, something that doesn't happen if you own a disc.

This trend should continue. With so many people moving to subscription services they need to improve the value proposition of owning vs. subscribing. Improving existing releases comes at a cost but the alternative might be to surrender the home-sales market and they certainly don't want that. Physical sales continue to crash and you can't improve discs already on shelves. Just mark them down, get rid of them, and try to sell a whole new version to the folks who already own the old version.

That new version being a hacked film with certain themes missing! Yeah, can't wait! This so called Digtal future sure is exciting. Just what I have always wanted. Kiddy safe films left, right and centre.

By the way, I didn't mean a ultimate cut, just a theatrical cut, wrong choice of words. Let's just say an unaltered version.

Discs are crashing? Bit dramatic don't you think? Bluray is certainly not crashing. It was up over 40 percent just this week. Disc is still a big chunk of home video sales.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by flyry

Steedeel continues to astound. First it was that we will all be watching movies on smart watches in the future, then it was that they would remove movies, now it's they will not remove the movies, but replace with edited versions

You forgot interactive tv which is coming because Apple want to push it with their original content.

[Talal86]

what does interactive tv mean?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Talal86

what does interactive tv mean?

I can tell you how I see it? Destroying the art of storytelling. Pick your own ending, story etc.. having to interact with a film instead of just sitting and enjoying it.

On a TV level, having multiple story options and having to pick a path from several different options or having to vote for your favourite actor to be ensure their story goes the way you want it to. Crap like that.
If it's a phone or tablet it will be touchscreen, if it's Apple TV it will be remote. That's how I see it anyway.

[Talal86]

that sounds more like a video game

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Talal86

that sounds more like a video game

Yep.