Ghost in the Shell 4K UHD (2017)

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not just that, I mean such things have always existed in the SDR Blu era e.g. some folks set TVs to torch mode, others will have proper calibration etc. But HDR itself has produced an even vaster cluster**** of different results from TV to TV and display type to display type, with even basic calibration being hard to come by, not to mention the increasingly wide divergence in what reviewers rate the most as being the USP of this format: resolution vs range.


I've liked what I've seen of Marty's reviews up until now (Michael's are a vastly different story) but it sounds like he's getting bored with it, yeah.


Was it your own site and/or FB group you were posting links to? If not then that's harsh, man. Welcome back anyways.

Geoff D, any professional reviewers out there that are objective, fair, and accurate in their ratings and worth glancing at?
Some of my favorite movies received negative reviews and if it wasnt for me to just give these title a fair chance I would have missed out on a lot of good quality content.

[Geoff D]

I not sure if there is such a person anymore. You're better off shadowing a forums buddy who shares the same tastes and has similar kit to you.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I not sure if there is such a person anymore. You're better off shadowing a forums buddy who shares the same tastes and has similar kit to you.

That's what I usually do...You cant really rate a movie going from, say, a Samsung KS8500 to an LG Oled G6, for example...Too many variables to factor in.
Considering the trend of HDR use improving quickly, I would expect this title to not be disappointing

[TheSweetieMan]

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is, yet again, why the market should've waited for Dolby Vision to be the standard.

HDR10 as a format defines no standard for tone or gamut mapping. So, with each panel manufacturer having to rely on their own tone-mapping to squeeze every ounce of potential out of the format, you end up with the inconsistent reviews that we've seen thus far.

One thing's for sure, I will be avoiding BR.com's reviews on 4K content until they start posting ones that understand this format on a fundamental level first.

[imsounoriginal]

I dunno, I don't find any one site super-reliable except DoBlu.com, and they only recently started doing UHD reviews. Also I dunno what HDD is using for their supposedly 4K screenshots cuz they all look soft as hell. And some of their reviews are way off, especially The Mummy. At this point I still think forums are best, but reading as many reviews as possible gives you the widest range of opinions, which is never a bad thing.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is, yet again, why the market should've waited for Dolby Vision to be the standard.

HDR10 as a format defines no standard for tone or gamut mapping. So, with each panel manufacturer having to rely on their own tone-mapping to squeeze every ounce of potential out of the format, you end up with the inconsistent reviews that we've seen thus far.

One thing's for sure, I will be avoiding BR.com's reviews on 4K content until they start posting ones that understand this format on a fundamental level first.

Yes, buuuuuuuuuuut: DV isn't about standardising playback according to just how the movie looks, but how the display looks. It's still mapping, it's just doing it with a content-derived roadmap for X display so these kinds of disparate reports would still occur across the different APL/peak brightness/colour volume/contrast attributes of OLED, the various LCD types (frame lit, edge lit, full array) and projectors (not that DV is even rated for consumer projectors owing to the screen conundrum).

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

I dunno, I don't find any one site super-reliable except DoBlu.com, and they only recently started doing UHD reviews. Also I dunno what HDD is using for their supposedly 4K screenshots cuz they all look soft as hell. And some of their reviews are way off, especially The Mummy. At this point I still think forums are best, but reading as many reviews as possible gives you the widest range of opinions, which is never a bad thing.

They're photos of a projection screen, you can see the screen door/chicken wire effect of the pixels if you embiggen the shots.

[xSAMCOx]

My shipped to day so ill should Get it next week.

[azmodeous]

It's funny, I've been weary of the reviews on this site for a long time. I still remember the whole Patton dnr debacle with it getting such high marks for picture quality even though it was a smeary mess. The biggest advantage of this site for me has been the forums and keeping my collection organized. I'm on the fence about picking this up Tuesday or waiting for a down the road purchase when the price drops, I do like a bit of eye candy from time to time and this seems like it would fill that spot for me.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes, buuuuuuuuuuut: DV isn't about standardising playback according to just how the movie looks, but how the display looks. It's still mapping, it's just doing it with a content-derived roadmap for X display so these kinds of disparate reports would still occur across the different APL/peak brightness/colour volume/contrast attributes of OLED, the various LCD types (frame lit, edge lit, full array) and projectors (not that DV is even rated for consumer projectors owing to the screen conundrum).

Exactly. Dolby doesn't turn a 600 nit OLED into a 1600 nit LCD. It might map better than the LCD on its own, depending, but the 4,000 or 1,000 nit image is still being mapped to a lower level. In something like Jackson's King Kong, where the contrast in the early city scenes is white hot, how bright your set can get is going to matter, no matter how it's converted.

[RockyIII]

Is it even worth upgrading bd player if we are already happy with our corrent HDR player, in order to get Dolby Vision capability, I wonder?

[xSAMCOx]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Is it even worth upgrading bd player if we are already happy with our corrent HDR player, in order to get Dolby Vision capability, I wonder?

A big YES

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by xSAMCOx

A big YES

So you can see a huge improvemenet from HDR to Dolby Vision? Because if the difference is the same as what I see between HDR and Dolby Vision in digital streaming sources than I disagree

[Vangeli]

I'm holding out hope that the Xbox One X will have DV capability (or small paid add-on, as Microsoft is just breaking even on that $500 hardware cost and I doubt they'd throw in a DV license for free) because my setup is literally my TV + soundbar, and Xbox One S. No receivers, cable boxes, extra disc players, streaming sticks, nothing.

Xbox has:
4K Blu-ray playback
USB antenna adapter to watch live OTA digital TV
All of the streaming apps (Netflix, HBO, Hulu, Amazon, VUDU, etc.)
Games in HDR

And the slight annoyance, TV has:
Dolby Vision UHD streaming from VUDU

I'm hoping HDMI 2.1 starts showing up in 2018 TV models (I'm planning to get a 75" FALD Sony set that has it) and later this year I'll be upgrading to a proper Atmos setup, but I still want the One X to be the end-all-be-all heart of my entertainment center. So Dolby Vision support would be a nice little upgrade.

Originally Posted by RockyIII

So you can see a huge improvemenet from HDR to Dolby Vision? Because if the difference is the same as what I see between HDR and Dolby Vision in digital streaming sources than I disagree

It depends on your hardware. Some low-end sets will see an improvement over HDR10 because DV will better fit the video to the display capabilities. Some mid-range sets it doesn't make much difference (but is still always welcome; when streaming VUDU UHD for example, no DV means SDR and that's lame). Some high-end sets might benefit from the tone-mapping, but I have no experience with that in particular.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

I'm holding out hope that the Xbox One X will have DV capability (or small paid add-on, as Microsoft is just breaking even on that $500 hardware cost and I doubt they'd throw in a DV license for free) because my setup is literally my TV + soundbar, and Xbox One S. No receivers, cable boxes, extra disc players, streaming sticks, nothing.

Xbox has:
4K Blu-ray playback
USB antenna adapter to watch live OTA digital TV
All of the streaming apps (Netflix, HBO, Hulu, Amazon, VUDU, etc.)
Games in HDR

And the slight annoyance, TV has:
Dolby Vision UHD streaming from VUDU

I'm hoping HDMI 2.1 starts showing up in 2018 TV models (I'm planning to get a 75" FALD Sony set that has it) and later this year I'll be upgrading to a proper Atmos setup, but I still want the One X to be the end-all-be-all heart of my entertainment center. So Dolby Vision support would be a nice little upgrade.



It depends on your hardware. Some low-end sets will see an improvement over HDR10 because DV will better fit the video to the display capabilities. Some mid-range sets it doesn't make much difference (but is still always welcome; when streaming VUDU UHD for example, no DV means SDR and that's lame). Some high-end sets might benefit from the tone-mapping, but I have no experience with that in particular.

I already get VuDu in Dolby Vision without a Dolby Vision bluray player

[Vangeli]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

I already get VuDu in Dolby Vision without a Dolby Vision bluray player

On Xbox? They added UHD streaming support but it streams in SDR without the Dolby Vision HDR, because the Xbox only supports HDR10 at the moment.

Oh I see what you're saying, went right over my head... Yes, VUDU streams DV to any compatible player. I'm just hoping support is added to the Xbox for both DV Blu-rays and DV streaming. Then it will be the ultimate all-in-one. Still not the best Blu-ray quality, but that's the price of convenience.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Vangeli

On Xbox? They added UHD streaming support but it streams in SDR without the Dolby Vision HDR, because the Xbox only supports HDR10 at the moment.

Oh I see what you're saying, went right over my head... Yes, VUDU streams DV to any compatible player. I'm just hoping support is added to the Xbox for both DV Blu-rays and DV streaming. Then it will be the ultimate all-in-one. Still not the best Blu-ray quality, but that's the price of convenience.

I get both VuDu Dolby Vision and Netflix Dolby Vision from my LG Oled TV apps. The one and only reason why I would upgrade my bd player is to be able to play blurays in Dolby Vision instead than HDR...That is why I wonder if for users like myself, buying a brand new Dolby Vision capable bluray player is even worth the money and effort

[Vangeli]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

I get both VuDu Dolby Vision and Netflix Dolby Vision from my LG Oled TV apps. The one and only reason why I would upgrade my bd player is to be able to play blurays in Dolby Vision instead than HDR...That is why I wonder if for users like myself, buying a brand new Dolby Vision capable bluray player is even worth the money and effort

When they're $550+, I don't think so. At least not now as there's only a handful of DV discs.

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Exactly. Dolby doesn't turn a 600 nit OLED into a 1600 nit LCD. It might map better than the LCD on its own, depending, but the 4,000 or 1,000 nit image is still being mapped to a lower level. In something like Jackson's King Kong, where the contrast in the early city scenes is white hot, how bright your set can get is going to matter, no matter how it's converted.

Right.

But that wasn't my point, which wasn't what Geoff was arguing against.

Of course, ideally, you want all panels to be brighter across the board. However, an individual with a 1600-nit LCD panel, like what Geoff has for instance, will see a difference between DV and HDR10 content once his panel finally gets the firmware update. Him and I have already discussed before, that regardless of how much brighter LCD panels get, HDR10 itself doesn't have a standard for tone or gamut mapping, which is an inherent limitation in comparison.

Now, with that being said, I don't want to derail this thread any further. Just wanted to originally voice my reason for wanting one format be the standard over another.

As it currently stands, I will be very happy to purchase this disc in the format it's currently in. It will be a stunner.

[kristoffer]

So nobody has compared the streaming DV version with the HDR10 disc version?

I will take higher bitrate over more compressed DV any day of the week.

[Vangeli]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

So nobody has compared the streaming DV version with the HDR10 disc version?

I will take higher bitrate over more compressed DV any day of the week.

The disc isn't out for another four days (at least in the US)