Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

Your posts are just so astonishingly arrogant. I find collecting anything to be a polite word for hoarding. Yes, hoarding. Collecting and displaying collections is a vanity thing. We are programmed through advertising to constantly desire consuming. I went through all of this with VHS ,DVD and finally Blu ray. I am not doing it again. I have used codes from my disc purchasing from the beginning therefore all of my movies are now in UV to be viewed at my leisure without the clutter of filling up shelves. The quality of streaming is very good. Just because I don't have discs it does not mean I love film any less then you so just stop it already. The reality is that you don't want your addiction taken away from you. I personally haven't used a disc since season one of Game of Thrones when it was released. Why is that a problem for you? Stop criticizing the way people consume their entertainment.

It seems a little ironic that you mention criticising after doing exactly that for your entire post. Just sayin..

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

I have a large digital collection because of the codes that I utilized. If I could sell some of those digital copies I would. I sold off my entire disc collection of games and movies and I am personally relieved. The less you have, the less stress. But someone telling me and others that we don't appreciate movies because we don't have physical discs lining our shelves is irritating. I go to the cinema constantly and watch my movies quite frequently. I studied film in college so Steel's comments are out of line and someone should call him out for it so I will do it.

Who is steel?

[darkknightman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It seems a little ironic that you mention criticising after doing exactly that for your entire post. Just sayin..

Nice move to dodge the actual content of my post. I did not criticize the means for consumption of media but the concept of collecting anything. Is your collecting of discs indicative of your love of film or rather OCD. Just Youtube people who fill rooms with collections and tell me that is rational.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Who is steel?

Shaq is Steel

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

Nice move to dodge the actual content of my post.

I have the right to my opinion. My ancestors fought wars for free speech.

It's not OCD. It's a love for film. I can quite happily watch films several times so it's great value for me. What I consider irrational is people who waste money on booze and then can't remember the night because they are so drunk. That's a waste of money. Spending money on a film, in high bit rate full HD with excellent surround sound and extras, and all the other greatness that comes with collecting? Nope, I love it.

[darkknightman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I have the right to my opinion. My ancestors fought wars for free speech.

And I have the right to criticize your speech.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

And I have the right to criticize your speech.

Yep.

[darkknightman]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I have the right to my opinion. My ancestors fought wars for free speech.

It's not OCD. It's a love for film. I can quite happily watch films several times so it's great value for me. What I consider irrational is people who waste money on booze and then can't remember the night because they are so drunk. That's a waste of money. Spending money on a film, in high bit rate full HD with excellent surround sound and extras, and all the other greatness that comes with collecting? Nope, I love it.

#Obsessed: World’s largest collection of Smurf memorabilia - YouTube

Yeah. This is normal.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

#Obsessed: World’s largest collection of Smurf memorabilia - YouTube

Yeah. This is normal.

Like I said, my discs are in two big black cabinets in my spare room. Nothing out of place and very neatly stored. I am minimalistic except my films, I don't like clutter. In fact I hate clutter.

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Now that's pretty lame. If I can see no difference at all then why would I not feel that way? I could care less if someone else can because I can't. In fact because I can't was one of the reasons I unloaded a 3000 BD collection. Lastly if you all are so anti digital "storage" then why are you in the digital thread beating a dead horse? You are going to change 0 minds here.

No offense intended, and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I think physical and digital formats can, and will, continue to co-exist nicely. I have nothing against digital, really, and have a (small-ish) collection on Vudu myself. It just bothers me when the more ardent digital-only folks here keep stating as fact that there is absolutely no quality difference, when this is demonstrably false.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

#Obsessed: World’s largest collection of Smurf memorabilia - YouTube

Yeah. This is normal.

Having said that, if that makes her happy, why not? It's very arrogant to declare what is normal and what isn't.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by zarquon

No offense intended, and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I think physical and digital formats can, and will, continue to co-exist nicely. I have nothing against digital, really, and have a (small-ish) collection on Vudu myself. It just bothers me when the more ardent digital-only folks here keep stating as fact that there is absolutely no quality difference, when this is demonstrably false.

If that fails, they bang on about hoarding. What they don't realise is many of us arrange our collections in a manner that makes perfect sense for our space.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by twobelowpar

Talk about missing the point. Where do you think your D2D and cheap codes are going to go as physical purchases dwindle or the studios simply decide to pull the plug on those features? For every digital code that is bought, a physical copy was sold somewhere. So as those dwindle, and digital grows in popularity, the codes are going to go up in price. It's already happening. I sell new release UV codes every week for $5-6 and sell out in only a couple days. As it stands now, the popularity of digital owes everything to physical still existing and providing these cheap secondary options.

Digital HD made $505 million in the first quarter this year. That does not include your sell of cheap codes. Do you actually think because a few people are buying cheap codes on here that that's how Digital movies are only being bought? This forum is a microscopic representation.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by SarahS

Prove it. Prove so all can see there is noticeable difference in video quality.

Originally Posted by twobelowpar

Put on any Bluray with some dark scenes. Watch the same scene on iTunes or Vudu. There you go. It's not THAT bad, but there is definitely a difference. And a significant one for audio. I mean, I watch iTunes and Vudu movies way more than Blurays for the same reasons you do: affordability and convenience. But I still admit the quality isn't the same and that it's only because of the codes my digital library is what it is. I swear to God, the Vudu lovers are about as rabid as they come right now.

Originally Posted by wolfpackTri

Listen....I agree with you about digital being better than discs from a convenience standpoint.

However, streaming at 9 MBps or more is NOT THE SAME as what a disc is reading data at. It's just not. No amount of internet speed, fiber, etc. will make up for that right now.

The algorithms that compress video to fit on a disc are not the same as the ones that Vudu or iTunes are using. Bluray data is read from a disc almost 4x higher than any internet stream.

To stream from a server, they are heavily compressed which is why you see 9-12 Mbps or whatever Vudu/iTunes are streaming at.

Anytime you compress the original source, you lose information. There is no arguing against this. YOU LOSE INFORMATION. DONE.

I'm all for digital and I accept that I lose information within the source to gain the convenience and not have hundreds of discs in my house.

You can argue all day long that it looks the same....and to your eyes it might sitting 7-8 feet from a tv. But from a pure technical perspective, it's not technically identical and to argue otherwise is pure ignorance.

You guys get too technical with your Compressed Algorithms and all, and convince yourselves and others to these facts. While we Digital HD people choose to believe otherwise. We have compared Blu-ray and Digital HD Dark Scenes and Color, on Big Screen UHD TV's with amazing results on the Digital side. Your information is many years old, Streaming from a Disc or a Server will have identical results with the same File and High Bandwidth Access. K-Scape has proven this with their Media Servers, so what's to stop Top Streaming Providers to do the same!

[wolfpackTri]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys get too technical with your Compressed Algorithms and all, and convince yourselves and others to these facts. While we Digital HD people choose to believe otherwise. We have compared Blu-ray and Digital HD Dark Scenes and Color, on Big Screen UHD TV's with amazing results on the Digital side. Your information is many years old, Streaming from a Disc or a Server will have identical results with the same File and High Bandwidth Access. K-Scape has proven this with their Media Servers, so what's to stop Top Streaming Providers to do the same!

I don't even know where to begin with this nonsense.

[brentsg]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys get too technical with your Compressed Algorithms and all, and convince yourselves and others to these facts. While we Digital HD people choose to believe otherwise. We have compared Blu-ray and Digital HD Dark Scenes and Color, on Big Screen UHD TV's with amazing results on the Digital side. Your information is many years old, Streaming from a Disc or a Server will have identical results with the same File and High Bandwidth Access. K-Scape has proven this with their Media Servers, so what's to stop Top Streaming Providers to do the same!

Meanwhile, I can watch the 600 or so digital copies I "own" and see all the horrible compression artifacts that aren't present on the disks for the same movies.

Streaming is extremely convenient, while being "good enough" for a large number of people and their A/V setups. That's it.

[zarquon]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys get too technical with your Compressed Algorithms and all, and convince yourselves and others to these facts. While we Digital HD people choose to believe otherwise. We have compared Blu-ray and Digital HD Dark Scenes and Color, on Big Screen UHD TV's with amazing results on the Digital side. Your information is many years old, Streaming from a Disc or a Server will have identical results with the same File and High Bandwidth Access. K-Scape has proven this with their Media Servers, so what's to stop Top Streaming Providers to do the same!

Probably pointless to try, but here goes: streaming from a disc or local server hosting an uncompressed, 1:1 copy of a Blu-ray, yes, you're correct that would be identical; that's what Kaleidescape does, you need to download the file to the local server, and it's viewed from there. No current streaming provider can accomplish the same thing from a remote server across the internet, regardless of how good your connection is.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by alchav21

K-Scape has proven this with their Media Servers, so what's to stop Top Streaming Providers to do the same!

That's like saying that since really high end, 5-star restaurants serve very high quality food, what's to stop McDonalds from doing the same. And I'm not holding my breath on McDonalds serving File Minjon anytime soon.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys get too technical with your Compressed Algorithms and all, and convince yourselves and others to these facts. While we Digital HD people choose to believe otherwise. We have compared Blu-ray and Digital HD Dark Scenes and Color, on Big Screen UHD TV's with amazing results on the Digital side. Your information is many years old, Streaming from a Disc or a Server will have identical results with the same File and High Bandwidth Access. K-Scape has proven this with their Media Servers, so what's to stop Top Streaming Providers to do the same!

Originally Posted by brentsg

Meanwhile, I can watch the 600 or so digital copies I "own" and see all the horrible compression artifacts that aren't present on the disks for the same movies.

Streaming is extremely convenient, while being "good enough" for a large number of people and their A/V setups. That's it.

Just because your Streaming Setup is inadequate, doesn't mean ours is just "Good Enough." We Digital HD people love Movies just as much if not more than you Disc Lovers. And we don't think Digital HD is just "Good Enough." We've proved last year that Streaming the same File from a Server would result in the same Quality. So that's why SarahS says Prove It. I now have a Sony 65" UHD TV with Symmetrical 75Mbps FTTH, Structured Cat5 Wiring. So tell us your setup, and why it's so bad for you.

[Zu Nim]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Do you think films can remain that cheap yet still have a thriving market? Of course they can't.

Of course they can. Do you think apps can remain cheap (or free!) yet still have a thriving market? Can computers? Consumer electronics? I guess none of those things are thriving because their prices are constantly going down. And if you say that films are entirely unrelated I would disagree. Technology has saved filmmakers hundreds of millions of dollars and that means they can thrive at lower prices.

An unsold $10 disc earns the studio nothing. Selling two $5 copies via EST earns more. You suggest the former is thriving and the latter is not, which is nonsense.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yeah right, that worked out well for digital games didn't it? They are asking £10 more for already expensive console games. The same will happen here.

Rubbish. The average price for games has dropped. AAA titles with enormous budgets require high prices but that's not new. Hint to consumers: Don't buy it if you don't like the price. It will drop.

Originally Posted by twobelowpar

As it stands now, the popularity of digital owes everything to physical still existing and providing these cheap secondary options.

Electronic sell-thru revenue was over $2 billion last year (all discs: $5.5 billion). And you think that has to do with cheap codes? Pretty myopic.

Originally Posted by veritas

Digital has not reduced the middle mans cut if anything it in the long run will increase the middle mans cut

We know that the middleman's cut is now 30% (or even 15%). That's less than the cut studios previously lost between wholesalers and retailers. Simple math. And that cut isn't 30% because there's competition from physical sales, so it's not going to grow to 40%, then 50%, etc. If anything it will probably shrink.

As far as manufacturing costs they won't have to ship it or create the disc but they will have to stream it to people ad infinitum

They will. Digital transmission prices only drop. Spitballing right now, the cost to stream an HDX movie is less than 15 cents. It's probably far less but I'm using published rates for CDNs. I'm never going to stream most of my digital collection even once. Lots of consumers won't watch their movies more than a few times ever. The burden of digital delivery is extraordinarily low.

They also so far have not found a way to resell remasters to previous digital buyers like they can for disc based media which means the demand for remasters when you go to a digital system is a lot smaller (when looking at possible paying customers).

I doubt you know what the economics behind a remaster are, but if adding the remaster to the existing product for sale increases sales enough to pay for the remaster that's all they need (more or less). To use a related example, look at iTunes Extras. Several studios keep adding iTunes Extras to existing films. There's clearly a cost associated with that. But the additional sales presumably pay for that expense. The studios aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.